Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
- Thread starter Colin Parkinson
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Why do these people constantly feel the need to be offended on behalf of everyone else?
I don't know if he really could be disciplined for it. If the sailor had it for a long period of time it is likely that many people in his chain of command at various levels were aware of it and may not have commented negatively on the tattoo.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Target Up said:
Because they are busy bodies, like rabid vegans and cult followers.
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I know I'm necro'ing an old thread with no real "news", but I needed to vent.
The other day we were doing junior officer trg, and we were discussing hateful conduct, and one of my peers, while discussing various examples of hateful conduct, included “that infidel tattoo” as a textbook example of hateful conduct. I didn’t speak out, but man do I disagree with that statement.
The other day we were doing junior officer trg, and we were discussing hateful conduct, and one of my peers, while discussing various examples of hateful conduct, included “that infidel tattoo” as a textbook example of hateful conduct. I didn’t speak out, but man do I disagree with that statement.
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I don't have any tattoos. And, I'm no longer subject to CAF policies. So, I have no comment on “that infidel tattoo”.
But, if there was a possibility that I might, perhaps, wish to apply to another employer, in the future, I would take their possible opinion into consideration.
Depending on the employer, they may want to see you in short sleeves or T-shirt during the Interview. Especially if the new job involves working with the community. Some members of the community might not see it the same way as others do.
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Is it a "racy" tattoo that might be problematic during job interview? Sure. I'm saying I don't think it's "hateful" conduct.
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I don't think it is either. Not to me, at least.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Technically your just being respectful of the Islamic traditions and labelling yourself so they know your status according to their religion and customs.
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Considering the new Hateful Conduct policy for the CAF includes making a comment on someone's height, I don't think it's that far of a stretch someone would get in trouble for an "Infidel" tattoo...
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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That's what I would argue if I had an infidel tattoo.*
Islam is an accepted, respected and practiced religion in the CAF.
Infidel is a term used throughout the Koran.
It's illegal to discriminate against someone on the grounds of religion in Canada.
*that's if I had money for a civilian lawyer and no further career aspirations.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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I also disagree. Tattoo fashions change over time (e.g., anyone here with a playboy bunny on their forearm?) and have little to do with inspiring hate or other negative behaviours.
I have commanded soldiers sporting some of the most shocking tattoos I've ever seen and, counter-intuitively, it seemed to me that the more shocking the tattoo, the meeker the host!
If someone turns out to be a practising Nazi through their 'conduct' they may be subject to hate laws. If so, it doesn't matter what their tattoos say if, in fact, they happen to be wearing any.
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That's how I've always viewed it...it is "someone else's" label that "someone else" has assigned to me/people like me. I don't have said tattoo, but to a certain extent, I have embraced "their" label. It isn't offensive to me, but rather, it is accurate, so... game on, I guess.
I knew I was being harassed. I think we need a class action lawsuit against Tall Privledge.
Weinie
Army.ca Veteran
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Maybe he should have had kafir tattooed on his arm. Then he could have gone with the carbine.
Kafir - Wikipedia
And at least he had the tattoo done voluntarily.
Kafir - Wikipedia
And at least he had the tattoo done voluntarily.
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Given today's attitudes to be offended about anything, what cannot be considered offensive by one person or another. What if he had been sporting a full sized crucifixion of christ on his back. You know, so they couldn't give him the lash.
FJAG
Army.ca Legend
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I find it interesting that we're discussing as to whether or not we find a particular tattoo "hateful". Isn't the real question: what was the message about himself that the individual who has the tattoo was trying to send out to the world at large or say to himself. Frankly, I have a hard time in finding a good message respecting that particular tattoo (especially when shaped like an AK47 with the handgrip and receiver shaped like a cross). On the other hand, I can see where a large part of society (and not just Muslims) find it distasteful at a minimum. On the scale of impact where "artsy, quirky or interesting" is at one end and "hateful" is on the other I think this one stands on the wrong side of the "I'll give him the benefit of the doubt" mark.
I need our old $0.02 emoji so in the interim I'll use this one
I need our old $0.02 emoji so in the interim I'll use this one
Blackadder1916
Army.ca Fixture
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I was debating whether (or how) to respond to this resurrection without sounding like an arsehole, but I think what is more important than the perceived hatefulness of the wording of "that infidel tattoo" is the "not speaking out". I have no intention of questioning your qualities as an officer (and that's not a backhanded way of suggesting I am, truly I have no such intention), but did anyone in that trg session provide a contrary opinion or question anything resembling the DS solution?
It's anything but the textbook example as one of your peers believed, but it is a good example of the shades of gray in these type of incidents. To be up-front about my own opinion, the soldier/sailor (he got the tattoo when he was Army) was stupid, but then I'm an old fart with no great fondness for body ink (in my younger days I would even have pause to pursue physical relationships with tattooed women - though sometimes it was a short pause). But to get back on topic, it would have been an excellent point to discuss during officer training since I thought it had been resolved as previously reported in this thread.
I know that hindsight is a wonderful thing and not everyone has constant access to the collected wisdom that is army.ca but if the topic comes up again, think about speaking up (I'm an old contrarian - it was not always good for my career - so am well aware about the perils of speaking up). Or, at least send them to these forums for a good argument/enlightenment.