Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Stoker]

Maybe they’re freeing up space because they anticipate Trump trying to shove a few FREEDOM class down our throats as an appeasement to keep tariffs at bay. Neatly sidesteps the NSS issues, if one of the yards gets a contract to deal with the propulsion issues and fit them out for Canadian use, rather than building a new class of corvette.

I’m being facetious about this, but there’s also part of me that would not be surprised if this was one somebody’s mind.

I would say if we went to the US with a shopping list of new tanks, aircraft, A Burkes etc there wouldn't be any tariffs.

 

[Swampbuggy]

I would say if we went to the US with a shopping list of new tanks, aircraft, A Burkes etc there wouldn't be any tariffs.

I’m convinced that’s true.

 

[Stoker]

I’m convinced that’s true.

Part of me wishes that we would step up and be the strong partner and hopefully calming influence with the US instead of the deadbeat uncle.

 

[Swampbuggy]

Part of me wishes that we would step up and be the strong partner and hopefully calming influence with the US instead of the deadbeat uncle.

I can’t disagree, though I am taking issue with the way the US is currently handling the situation. I’m not sure threats of annexation and crippling tariffs are the way I’d go about it.

We really need to concentrate on doing better as a partner for our own sake too. I obviously don’t have access to any insight on how the two countries are meant to split up the defence workload for NORAD, for example, but it seems to me that the sooner we have defined requirements, we should then bring that shopping list to the US and make the partnership deeper, but not in the current lopsided and unequal fashion.

Probably this applies even more so to NATO.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I can’t disagree, though I am taking issue with the way the US is currently handling the situation. I’m not sure threats of annexation and crippling tariffs are the way I’d go about it.

We really need to concentrate on doing better as a partner for our own sake too. I obviously don’t have access to any insight on how the two countries are meant to split up the defence workload for NORAD, for example, but it seems to me that the sooner we have defined requirements, we should then bring that shopping list to the US and make the partnership deeper, but not in the current lopsided and unequal fashion.

Probably this applies even more so to NATO.

I think there is a very grim realization that no matter what we do, the orange man is going to demand more, more and more. Realistically and pragmatically we do have to rearm and start taking a good look at who we call friends. We’ll find the truth that the whole world already knows- a country has responsibilities and can count on no other country but itself.
Especially if we want to stay in G7 which will be Trumps next target for Canada.

 

[Stoker]

I think there is a very grim realization that no matter what we do, the orange man is going to demand more, more and more. Realistically and pragmatically we do have to rearm and start taking a good look at who we call friends. We’ll find the truth that the whole world already knows- a country has responsibilities and can count on no other country but itself.
Especially if we want to stay in G7 which will be Trumps next target for Canada.

Threatening to cut off their electricity, oil, gas and strategic minerals is not helping matters. Statements like that is how countries get invaded. We currently don't have strong leaders and our PM is a lame duck, can't help to think that lack of leadership is emboldening him.

 

[KevinB]

I would say if we went to the US with a shopping list of new tanks, aircraft, A Burkes etc there wouldn't be any tariffs.

Honestly AB’s aren’t surplus currently. You’d have better luck with Virginia class SSN’s for a Delivery Date than an AB for the RCN…

 

[lenaitch]

Talking about the Orca's......

Navy's eight Orca-class vessels gather for historic exercise

All eight Orca-class vessels came together for a joint exercise on that extended into the Strait of Juan de Fuca

www.timescolonist.com

After reading this, I don't see why something similar can't be in place for trainee's/cadets on the Great Lakes from Thunder Bay to Quebec City - pollution violators - check, illegal fishing - check, people smuggling - check, gunrunning - check, drug running - check, training - check, showing the fag - check, creating awareness within the CDN people - check.

All they would have to do is embark someone who has the authority to enforce those things (well, except showing the fag).

 

[Furniture]

Honestly AB’s aren’t surplus currently. You’d have better luck with Virginia class SSN’s for a Delivery Date than an AB for the RCN…

The last thing the RCN needs is a staffing pig like an AB...

Great ships for America, terrible for us. If wanted to piggyback off an American ship programme, it would be the new FFGs.

 

[NearingZenith]

I think there is a very grim realization that no matter what we do, the orange man is going to demand more, more and more. Realistically and pragmatically we do have to rearm and start taking a good look at who we call friends. We’ll find the truth that the whole world already knows- a country has responsibilities and can count on no other country but itself.
Especially if we want to stay in G7 which will be Trumps next target for Canada.

I agree with you that with President Trump there’s no such thing as successful appeasement and everything is a moving target. At the World Economic Forum last week Trump announced that Saudi Arabia agreed to invest $600 Billion in the US over 4 years and in the next breath said he wants it to be $1 Trillion instead. It takes a lot of gall to shake down Saudi Arabia and the Crown Prince in public. Yes, Trump might have been partly joking and $1 Trillion wasn’t a hard demand, but it’s also clear that if Saudi Arabia thought $600 Billion was enough to buy them 4 years of good will with Trump, that’s not going to be the case. Similarly, if the Canadian government went down to Washington to sign a major defence purchase agreement with Trump, by the time they got to the post-signing press conference I’d expect Trump to promote the huge defence purchase in one breath and in the next breath announce that negotiations had begun for the next major defence purchase agreement.

We need to increase defence spending for our own sake and invest in things that make sense for our own defence needs including supporting Canadian defence production where there’s long-term value in doing so. Yes we need to collaborate with the US with continental defence in mind and buy American defence products as necessary, but we shouldn’t be beholden to getting a whole bunch of kit and buying American simply to try to satisfy Trump.

 

[quadrapiper]

The last thing the RCN needs is a staffing pig like an AB...

Great ships for America, terrible for us. If wanted to piggyback off an American ship programme, it would be the new FFGs.

Aren't they also somewhat built out as far as hull capacity? Might be misremembering something.

Feels like any "Future X" program in the States was already risky, and is now vapourware until there's a flotilla/brigade/wing worth in service, and even then it's maybe a bit dodgy. Better to buy Korean than discover the program you invested $billions in as a partner has been cancelled because Musk thinks it's outdated, only fires $100k rounds, etc.

 

[Furniture]

Aren't they also somewhat built out as far as hull capacity? Might be misremembering something.

Feels like any "Future X" program in the States was already risky, and is now vapourware until there's a flotilla/brigade/wing worth in service, and even then it's maybe a bit dodgy. Better to buy Korean than discover the program you invested $billions in as a partner has been cancelled because Musk thinks it's outdated, only fires $100k rounds, etc.

I'm willing to bet the new FFG programme will work out. Even the USN is realizing the AB's are great, but not perfect for all roles.

Just like we use MCDVs and AOPVs for low intensity tasks, the USN is looking for a ship for a lot of low intensity routine tasks.

When it comes to armour and artillery, I think the RoK is onto something. When it comes to naval power, I'd stick to the UK, USA, France, and maybe Germany as examples.