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Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread

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Luskin and Krugman obviously have some personal issues to settle, but read past the rhetoric in this piece and look at the numbers. Ask yourself which economy is closer to ours, and why:

French Choice
Krugman reaches for a silver lining among the shards of France's failing economy.

According to Paul Krugman's New York Times column Friday, "there's a lot to be said for the French choice" â ” the choice to live in a decaying welfare state with no growth, no jobs, and no future, but plenty of free time on your hands.

It's not so bad in France, claims America's most dangerous liberal pundit. It's a "highly productive" nation, he says. Oh yeah? Its average real GDP growth since 1991 has been 1.8% per year, compared to 3.1% for the United States. Its GDP per capita is lower than all but the poorest four U.S. states â ” lower even than Alabama, a state Krugman nastily described the week before last as being populated by people too poorly educated to work in automobile factories.

But Krugman claims that's "mainly a matter of choice." He says it's because the French have chosen to spend less time working, and more time at leisure. At least he's right about the leisure â ” France is about the most leisurely nation there is. The average French worker worked 1,441 hours last year â ” while his U.S. counterpart worked 1,824 hours. The average French worker took seven weeks off in vacation and holidays â ” his U.S. counterpart took less than four.

But all that leisure isn't really a choice. If the French wanted to work more, they couldn't â ” the French economy just isn't producing any jobs. The French unemployment rate in May was a catastrophic 9.8%, and that's actually better than the average over the last 15 years.

Over that period, the French unemployment rate has run, on average 4.9% higher than the U.S. rate. Following his "disturbing habit of shaping, slicing and selectively citing numbers," Krugman lies about that in Friday's column, saying it's been "about four percentage points higher." And Krugman lies by omission when he neglects to mention the most tragic aspect of France's unemployment picture: More than 41% of the unemployed have been out of work for more than a year.

Krugman minimizes the whole matter by saying nothing more than that it's "a real problem." How very differently he has dealt with unemployment in the United States on George W. Bush's watch. With unemployment here coming out of the 2001 recession never getting anywhere near French levels, Krugman still hasn't stopped whining about â Å“the anxiety and humiliation" and "the indignity and financial hardship" of it.

Even with all that unemployment, the French jobs picture is worse than it seems. What Krugman calls the "choice" to work less is, in fact, a case of the employed being underemployed. When the economy can't produce more work for them to do, they couldn't work more than their 1,441 hours a year if they wanted to.

Until recently it was a matter of law. In 1998, powerful unions pressured France's socialist government into mandating a 35-hour work week, under the doctrine of "work less, work all." The first part of that has been a success â ” people are working "less." The second part has been a miserable failure â ” "all" are not working. It's gotten so bad that last March France's general assembly voted to, in effect, dismantle the law by allowing up to 13 hours of overtime. It remains to be seen if that will make any difference.

In the meantime, Krugman rationalizes it away as a matter of "family values" â ” deliberately mocking the slogan of some American conservatives. He says members of the typical "French family are compensated for their lower income with much more time together," and that France is "extremely supportive of the family as an institution."

Let's talk about that "lower income." Krugman Truth Squad member Bruce Bartlett points to a report by the European consulting firm Timbro that found that total private consumption per capita in France is about half that of the U.S. The average French family has a lower standard of living than Americans living below the poverty level. Impoverished Americans have 16% more dwelling space per capita than the average French; the American poor are more likely to have a car, a dishwasher, a microwave oven, a personal computer, and a clothes drier.

So now we know what French families are doing with all that extra time together â ” they're crouching in cramped living quarters doing household labor. And, by the way, we can guess what they're not doing. The French birth rate is so low that its current population isn't even replacing itself.

Are the French as happy with their "choice" as Krugman thinks they are? New Krugman Truth Squad member Tino Sanandaji on the Truck and Barter blog points to a Harris Poll that says they're not. When asked if you are "very satisfied...with the life you lead" only 18% of Frenchmen said yes, compared to 58% of Americans. It turns out that the French aren't even all that wild about the families they spend so much time with instead of working. Sanandaji points to a Pew Foundation survey showing that only 43% of Frenchmen are "very satisfied" with their family life, compared to 67% of Americans.

Why has Krugman mounted such an absurd defense of the failing French economy? It's a matter of first principles â ” he describes himself as an "unabashed defender of the welfare state." So that keeps him both from wanting to admit how bad things are in the French workers' paradise and from understanding why. The root cause is one that Krugman can never acknowledge â ” France's crushing tax burden. In fact, the differences between France's and the U.S.'s tax burdens are nearly perfectly proportional to the differences in hours worked.

Also, at the moment, the most important item on Krugman's Leftist agenda is socialized medicine â ” and he would like Americans to believe that if we imitate France's model, we can get what he calls their "excellent health care." And if we trash our economy in the process like France did, don't worry about it â ” they're "highly productive," and "French workers spend more time with their families."

Oh, and about that "excellent health care." I seem to remember something from about two years ago, when about 15,000 elderly people in France died in a heat wave. That's more than five times as many as were killed in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. And why did it happen? In part, because most French households are too poor to afford air conditioners. But more importantly, those people died because so many doctors were on vacation.

Hey â ” it was their "choice."

â ” Donald Luskin is chief investment officer of Trend Macrolytics LLC, an independent economics and investment-research firm..
 
http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/luskin200508020828.asp
 
squeeliox said:
a retraction from some of the mainstream media that originally carried these comments
a search on factiva turns up blank.
As if that is going to happen.

this luskin guy makes plenty of bald assertions, with a side order of name-calling, but still no "bulletproof rebuttal" in sight...
Actually, you are making bald (and mostly baseless) assertions: this is readily apparent with an understanding of the basics of economics.
 
a_majoor said:
While it may be an interesting law case in theory, the taxpayer foolish enough to attempt to fight the CCRA in court had better be named Bill Gates, because the Government has the resources and willpower to crush anyone else who can't muster up similar resources, armies of lawyers etc. It would also be difficult to fight a multi-year court battle with all your assets seized to pay taxes owing  ;)

Thought for the day
How can a democratic society maintain a tax court system where the taxpayer is guilty until proven innocent? How is it possible that this remains a sad reality in Canada?

The state can assess your income and send you a bill. If you don't agree with that bill, you must file a complaint. The government will then take you to court, where they are not require to prove their case. The taxpayer must prove their innocence against an army of bureaucrats and lawyers.

Of course, it's not the large corporations that get smoked in tax court -- it's the little guy who runs a gas station or a fast food stand. The government knows a big business has the resources to put up a prolonged fight, so they don't even bother.

When will taxpayers be afforded the same rights as criminals and terrorists?
http://taxpayersfederation.blogspot.com/2005/08/thought-for-day.html

Not 100% on that last part, but interesting thought, nonetheless ...
 
While it may be an interesting law case in theory, the taxpayer foolish enough to attempt to fight the CCRA in court had better be named Bill Gates, because the Government has the resources and willpower to crush anyone else who can't muster up similar resources, armies of lawyers etc. It would also be difficult to fight a multi-year court battle with all your assets seized to pay taxes owing  Wink

Umm, OK:

1) The case that we are discussing has nothing to do with the CRA, but with the power of provincial goverments.

2) Thousands of people  have fought the CRA(and the queen in general) in court, I've got 6000 pages of them(cases specific to the ITA) sitting on my desk. Lots of them win,  in fact, most of our tax law originates from or were amended by these cases. That's how common law works, in case you were wondering.

The state can assess your income and send you a bill. If you don't agree with that bill, you must file a complaint. The government will then take you to court, where they are not require to prove their case. The taxpayer must prove their innocence against an army of bureaucrats and lawyers.

Of course, it's not the large corporations that get smoked in tax court -- it's the little guy who runs a gas station or a fast food stand. The government knows a big business has the resources to put up a prolonged fight, so they don't even bother.

When will taxpayers be afforded the same rights as criminals and terrorists?
http://taxpayersfederation.blogspot.com/2005/08/thought-for-day.html

??? ??? ??? Where are you(not you, the guys who wrote this) getting this? For starters, is the author aware of the distinctions in the burden of proof requirements between civil and criminal law? Unless you are being accused of fraud, disputes between the CRA and the taxpayer are civil, so the comparision to terrorists makes no sense whatsoever. Are they talking about the proccess of CRA reassesements(which do not involve the courts at all), the prosecution under crimnal law of fraud,  about individuals challenging the legality of provisions within the ITA itself, or about the legality of goverments to impose new taxes?



 
I_am_John_Galt said:
As if that is going to happen.
Actually, you are making bald (and mostly baseless) assertions: this is readily apparent with an understanding of the basics of economics.

everything in that article either sidesteps krugman's points entirely or, as i have pointed out, bizarrely calls him out for telling "lies" that luskin's own numbers agree with, or for ignoring things he has clearly stated. in fact, looking thru some of luskin's other rants, he doesn't seem to have many more tricks in his bag than that. much sound and fury, signifying nothing.
as for my alleged ignorance of economics, you have yet to explain why you think: (1) alabama has suddenly lost the ability to add new skilled labourers to its workforce (high schools turn out graduates every year, you know) and (2) Toyota, the world's No. 2 automaker, lacks the "buyer power" relative to its rivals to attract those skilled workers. has alabama repealed the law of supply and demand?

oh, and btw, here's a part of that Fedchun "denial" that luskin somehow forgot to mention:
International surveys have verified the average skill level of Ontario residents is one of Ontario's competitive advantages in North America. My comments taken in their total context were meant to highlight that quality and were not meant to disparage workers elsewhere."
" http://www.al.com/search/index.ssf?/base/opinion/112141910081010.xml?birminghamnews?olet&coll=2
now isn't that nice and diplomatic?
 
squeeliox said:
everything in that article either sidesteps krugman's points entirely or, as i have pointed out, bizarrely calls him out for telling "lies" that luskin's own numbers agree with, or for ignoring things he has clearly stated. in fact, looking thru some of luskin's other rants, he doesn't seem to have many more tricks in his bag than that. much sound and fury, signifying nothing.
The point is that Krugman is ignoring basic economic realities to make a political argument.  The political argument is only compelling to those ignorant of the underlying economic structure.

as for my alleged ignorance of economics, you have yet to explain why you think: (1) alabama has suddenly lost the ability to add new skilled labourers to its workforce (high schools turn out graduates every year, you know)
It is very simple: Alamaba has been operating at, or near, full employment for a long time.  The "Full Employment Rate" is generally agreed by economists to be 4.0%, which means that at any given time 4.0% of the workforce is either changing jobs or is too stupid or lazy to get one or be trained for one (whether this number is a valid assumption or not is irrelevent to the fact that it is the number that is utilized by the car company's economists).  Currently (June 2006), Alabama's unemployment rate is 4.4%: this means that 0.4% of the workforce is available to a new employer.  In Ontario, the June 2006 unemployment rate was 6.7%: this means that 2.7% of the workforce is available to a new employer.  Where do you think any given employer is more likely to find suitable candidate for employment?  I'll give you an hint: they are almost 7 times more likely to find them in Ontario, because Ontario's employment situation is so crappy (vis-a-vis Alabama).


and (2) Toyota, the world's No. 2 automaker, lacks the "buyer power" relative to its rivals to attract those skilled workers. has alabama repealed the law of supply and demand?
What?  Do you know what supply and demand is?  Do you know what will happen to Toyota's ability to price cars where MC has been arbitrarily increased?  Do you not understand that it might be in Toyota's interests to minimize costs, rather than simply outbidding competitors for labour?


oh, and btw, here's a part of that Fedchun "denial" that luskin somehow forgot to mention:now isn't that nice and diplomatic?
U-N-E-M-P-L-O-Y-M-E-N-T
 
Since I'm here already, let me jump into the Toyota thing too. I spoke with a friend who was familiar with this stuff and the explanation was "Well, Toyota already had a whole bunch of other stuff nearby, so it only made sense to put the new plant there too.". Seems like a fairly reasonable explanation to me, I imagine any reasons given beyond that are proably just PR.  Are you guys perhaps reading too much into this business?
 
Toyota has had a plant in Cambridge, Ontario for +/- 20 years: they also have plants in Indiana, Kentucky, Texas, West Virginia, California and Hunstville, Alabama (where they make engines for the Tundra).  I don't think Ontario has any advantage in that regard.

Here's the GoC press release ... amongst the self-congratulatory platitudes:
The Government of Canada today announced it will provide $55 million in support for a new Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada Inc. automotive assembly plant to be built in Woodstock, Ontario. This will be the first auto assembly plant built on a greenfield site in Canada since 1986, ...
http://news.gc.ca/cfmx/view/en/index.jsp?articleid=158029

Which can be spun as a good thing ("hey finally, some new investment"), or a bad thing ("what the heck is the matter with our economy that we can only attract one new development in two decades of the longest sustained economic expansion in recorded history"): maybe I'm being overly-cynical, but I fear the latter is closer to the truth.
 
Of course, having Mr Dithers hand you a cheque for $55 million might make you see things his way as well... :rage:
 
a_majoor said:
Of course, having Mr Dithers hand you a cheque for $55 million might make you see things his way as well... :rage:

Touche, except that I'd include $55 million of the taxes that come off your paycheque...  :crybaby:
 
I_am_John_Galt said:
It is very simple: Alamaba has been operating at, or near, full employment for a long time.   The "Full Employment Rate" is generally agreed by economists to be 4.0%, which means that at any given time 4.0% of the workforce is either changing jobs or is too stupid or lazy to get one or be trained for one (whether this number is a valid assumption or not is irrelevent to the fact that it is the number that is utilized by the car company's economists).  

the only thing "generally agreed" by economists is that full employment means a jobless rate of anywhere between 2% and 10%, depending on the time and place.
which makes it all the more doubtful that a big auto company would decide to locate a plant based solely on a single precise magical number like 4% or 3.9736% or pi or whatever you want to claim it is, and without regard to any other more obvious factors, including average workforce skill levels, tax rates and healthcare costs, etc.
it. just. doesn't. happen.


What?   Do you know what supply and demand is?   Do you know what will happen to Toyota's ability to price cars where MC has been arbitrarily increased?   Do you not understand that it might be in Toyota's interests to minimize costs, rather than simply outbidding competitors for labour?

marginal costs are hardly "arbitrary" if they are dictated by the same market environment toyota's competitors are operating in. its big relative advantages in the labour market (eg, size, relative stability, etc) do not show up as accounting costs, in any case. a company like that simply doesn't have to do a whole lot of outright bidding to get to the front of the line.
 
Britney Spears said:
Umm, OK:

1) The case that we are discussing has nothing to do with the CRA, but with the power of provincial goverments.

2) Thousands of people  have fought the CRA(and the queen in general) in court, I've got 6000 pages of them(cases specific to the ITA) sitting on my desk. Lots of them win,  in fact, most of our tax law originates from or were amended by these cases. That's how common law works, in case you were wondering.
I think the argument is about challenging the legality of an agency of the Federal Government operating in the area of exclusive Provincial Jurisdiction (constitutional issue): a far cry from individual appeals on tax bills (civil issue)!

??? ??? ??? Where are you(not you, the guys who wrote this) getting this? For starters, is the author aware of the distinctions in the burden of proof requirements between civil and criminal law? Unless you are being accused of fraud, disputes between the CRA and the taxpayer are civil, so the comparision to terrorists makes no sense whatsoever. Are they talking about the proccess of CRA reassesements(which do not involve the courts at all), the prosecution under crimnal law of fraud,  about individuals challenging the legality of provisions within the ITA itself, or about the legality of goverments to impose new taxes?
I sort of agree with you, but I also sort of don't (I'm not a legal expert: that's what we pay lawyers for).  As I understand it, the Income Tax Act (and other tax laws) falls under civil law, where Balance of Probabilities (vice Beyond Reasonable Doubt) constitutes adequate proof, and thus the 'standard' of proof is lower in tax cases than in terrorism cases, in reference to the article.

The thing is, tax cases in Canada are adjudicated by a separate court system (the Tax Court of Canada), where (as I understand it, and I remember INAL), CCRA has *NO* burden of proof and thus it falls 100% on the taxpayer (by default, if nothing else).  CCRA plays no role whatsoever (although will sometimes petition* the Tax Court for an interpretation of a particular section of the code prior to, or in the course of, an assessment or audit).

The (perhaps somewhat overstated) point of the article is that criminals have the right to fair trial, etc.: CCRA can tax anyone at will without any legal grounds (yes, I am being a little facetious), and it is up to the taxpayer (alone) to prove that s/he is being taxed unjustly, which also assumes s/he can afford it.  Kinda talkin' out my you-know-what here (are there any lawyers in the forums?), but an interesting subject nonetheless.
 
squeeliox said:
the only thing "generally agreed" by economists is that full employment means a jobless rate of anywhere between 2% and 10%, depending on the time and place.

You are confusing government justification for job-killing policies with economics (did you just read a wikipedia article and accept it as gospel truth?).

full employment: The condition that exists when all who want work can find jobs. Because some individuals will always be between jobs, full employment does not mean that one hundred percent of the workforce is employed. Rather, it is customarily defined as ninety-six percent of the total potential workforce.
http://www.bartleby.com/59/18/fullemployme.html


which makes it all the more doubtful that a big auto company would decide to locate a plant based solely on a single precise magical number like 4% or 3.9736% or pi or whatever you want to claim it is, and without regard to any other more obvious factors, including average workforce skill levels, tax rates and healthcare costs, etc.

They are concerned with cost.
"Full employment" represents full utillization of the labour supply.
More skilled workers get higher first: therefore, when unemployment is very low, only the least-skilled workers are "unemployed" (ignoring the 4%): let's call this situation "A".
In a higher unemployment situation, there are more skilled and unskilled workers looking for work (by definition), however we are more concerned with the former: this is situation "O".
Thus, training costs are higher in situation "A" than "O", because there are so many unemployed skilled workers in "O" .
Ontario and Canadian Governments have redirected money from job-creation (i.e., leaving it in investor's hands) and directed towards educating the workforce.  Thus, we have an educated/skilled workforce (a good thing).  Unfortunately, it also means that there will be no jobs for them until the more-business-friendly US locations near full employment, thus making labour costs of further US expansion prohibitively high (a very bad thing).

marginal costs are hardly "arbitrary" if they are dictated by the same market environment toyota's competitors are operating in.
What?  This makes no sense at all. If a company chooses to pay more for a product than it has to, cost has arbitrarily increased (by definition!): a competitor could easily undercut that company's prices (i.e., by locating in Ontario).  I actually think that Toyota's excutives are not  economic illiterates.

its big relative advantages in the labour market (eg, size, relative stability, etc) do not show up as accounting costs, in any case. a company like that simply doesn't have to do a whole lot of outright bidding to get to the front of the line.
What are you talking about?  Do you think that you have a better idea of Toyota's purchasing power vis-a-vis labour than anyone at Toyota?  How is this relevant, anyway?
 
I_am_John_Galt said:
What are you talking about?   Do you think that you have a better idea of Toyota's purchasing power vis-a-vis labour than anyone at Toyota?   How is this relevant, anyway?

Toyota's OWN EXECUTIVES have cited the level of training and lower health care costs as reasons for their decision. I'm sure they have a whole lot of other reasons, as well. Despite this, you claim to know with absolute, utter certainty that Toyota's ONLY REASON for locating in Ontario is due to how its unemployment rate compares to an unknown theoretical number -- and a single one at that. i think i'll go with the Toyota execs on this one, thanks.
 
We seem to be loosing focus on the Macro issue of "How to make Canada relevant again".

The power of the State is being abused to extract money from the taxpayer and "redistribute" it tocauses and players deemed "worthy" by a cabel of unaccountable politicians and their friends. In economic terms, paying the healthcare, training and a $55 million down payment on the factory costs to Toyota is not much different from funneling $100 million to, say, Groupaction. Investors who have chosen to invest in companies such as Daimler-Chrysler, or citizens who are donating to the "Green" party are also forced to make contributions to competitors, essentially undermining their own positions.

Since the "command economy" is being used to override the "market economy", this builds in economic distortions and has terrible long term consequences for all of us. If Toyota made the wrong decision locating in Ontario, do you think they will abandon a loosing investment for greener pastures, or come looking for more tax subsidies? How much money will be diverted from other potentially profitable investments in order to support a loosing one?

If Canada is to unlease the latent economic, intellectual and political power available, then people must be free to direct their energy and resources to where they wish, not where the PMO wishes, and to reap the benefits or consequences of their decisions. The "invisible hand" should not have to expend most of its energy arm wrestling with the "dead hand" of Stateism, we all can recognize productive outlets for our time and energy.

Finally, a historical overview of the roots of the modern liberal's obsession with the redistributive power of the State, you will be surprised (bypass the rhetorical flourishes):

Unintelligent Design
The origins and madness of Paul Krugman's economic doctrine of massive taxation.

One of the Left's sleaziest rhetorical tricks is to discredit conservative ideals by claiming they are based on religious beliefs, while liberal ideals are based on science. The Right, they sneer, is "faith based." The Left, they brag, is "reality based."

So we have Paul Krugman, America's most dangerous liberal pundit, claiming that the world of conservative thought is "increasingly dominated by people who believe truth should be determined by revelation, not research." Krugman even thinks the conservative preference for lower tax rates and higher economic growth is nothing more than a matter of right-wing religious zealotry. In his Friday New York Times column, Krugman called supply-side economics a "doctrine" that believes in "miraculous positive effects" which has "never been backed by evidence."

Of course Krugman believes that his own leftist "doctrines" are entirely scientific. He excoriates Tom DeLay and Rick Santorum for statements they have made about the religious foundations of their views. But he never objects to the same kind of foundations when they support the views of Martin Luther King, Jr., Jesse Jackson, or even Al Sharpton.

In fact, Krugman doesn't seem to know that the modern liberal conception of the welfare state began as a great religious awakening, led by the Christian Socialist and Social Gospel movements of the late 19th century. Their central doctrine was that the power of the state should be harnessed to redistribute wealth in order to combat sin among America's crowded new urban populations. This doctrine gradually prevailed throughout the 20th century, through the Progressive Era, the New Deal, and the Great Society, with the introduction of the federal income tax, Social Security, Medicare, and the regulatory state.

Today's seemingly secular science of economics - an establishment in which Paul Krugman is regarded as a leading authority - was deliberately created in the late 19th century to manufacture an intellectual imprimatur for the Christian Socialist and Social Gospel movements. It came about in just the way Krugman, in his Friday column, claims today's conservative think tanks were created by the Right to manufacture evidence against liberal shibboleths such as global warming.

The American Economic Association - the leading professional organization of economics - was founded in 1885 to be, in the words of its leading founder Richard T. Ely, "an influential movement which will help in the diffusion of a sound, Christian political economy." Its first mission statement called for combating "social problems whose solution is impossible without the united efforts of Church, State, and Science."

Science? Au contraire. Of the AEA's 50 founding members, more than 20 were former or practicing clergymen. And while Krugman warns today that the religious Right has begun a "process that ends with banishing Darwin from the classroom," the AEA was founded explicitly to banish Darwinistic science from economics, for fear that it was buttressing the then-dominant paradigm of laissez-faire capitalism. No matter that Darwinism was good science. As historian Benjamin G. Rader put it in a biography of Ely, "Christian moral responsibility should be emphasized rather than the search for mechanistic laws."

The banishment of Darwin - and science - from economics continues today in the work of statists like Krugman, and the AEA continues to put its imprimatur on their work. Every two years the AEA awards the John Bates Clark medal to the most distinguished American economist under the age of 40. Paul Krugman won it in 1991. Clark, an AEA founder, was a Christian Socialist. Though famous as the great pioneer of the theory of "perfect competition," Clark actually believed that "Individual competition ... ought to disappear ... The alternative regulator is moral force."

It must be moral force - it certainly isn't science - that permits Krugman to claim that supply-side economics has "never been backed by evidence." How does he reconcile the fact that federal tax revenues plummeted after peaking in 2000 (while tax rates remained high) and then recovered after the 2003 tax cuts were put in place? What does he call Krugman Truth Squad member Kevin Hassett's observation that the tax revenues currently anticipated by the Congressional Budget Office for 2006 are about the same as those it anticipated for 2006 back in 1999 - even though tax rates have been slashed since then?

Here's what I call it: scientific, empirical, real-world proof. Supply-side economics works. Lower tax rates, higher economic growth, and higher tax revenues go hand in hand in hand.

But despite the evidence, what economic "doctrine" would Paul Krugman prefer? He wants to see tax hikes - big tax hikes. He recently said, "We should be getting 28% of GDP [gross domestic product] in revenue. We are only collecting 17%." It doesn't take much of a scientist to realize that he's talking about increasing federal taxes of all types by about 65 percent on average. But if Krugman were more of a scientist - if he'd look at the evidence - he'd realize that it can't be done.

Historically, federal taxes have never even taken as much as 21 percent of GDP - even though federal income tax rates have at one time topped 90 percent (from 1944 to 1953). So what tax rate would Krugman propose in order to collect 28 percent of GDP in revenues when even 90 percent rates won't get revenues up to even 21 percent of GDP? Krugman Truth Squad member William Anderson reported on the VonMises Blog that Krugman himself once said that 70 percent income-tax rates are "insane." So if rates even worse than insane won't do it, what will?

Sheer faith, apparently.

- Donald Luskin is chief investment officer of Trend Macrolytics LLC, an independent economics and investment-research firm. He welcomes your visit to his blog and your comments at don@trendmacro.com.

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/luskin200508100852.asp

Moral force, or just plain force?
 
a_majoor said:
We seem to be loosing focus on the Macro issue of "How to make Canada relevant again".

The power of the State is being abused to extract money from the taxpayer and "redistribute" it tocauses and players deemed "worthy" by a cabel of unaccountable politicians and their friends. In economic terms, paying the healthcare, training and a $55 million down payment on the factory costs to Toyota is not much different from funneling $100 million to, say, Groupaction. Investors who have chosen to invest in companies such as Daimler-Chrysler, or citizens who are donating to the "Green" party are also forced to make contributions to competitors, essentially undermining their own positions.

Since the "command economy" is being used to override the "market economy", this builds in economic distortions and has terrible long term consequences for all of us. If Toyota made the wrong decision locating in Ontario, do you think they will abandon a loosing investment for greener pastures, or come looking for more tax subsidies? How much money will be diverted from other potentially profitable investments in order to support a loosing one?

If Canada is to unlease the latent economic, intellectual and political power available, then people must be free to direct their energy and resources to where they wish, not where the PMO wishes, and to reap the benefits or consequences of their decisions. The "invisible hand" should not have to expend most of its energy arm wrestling with the "dead hand" of Stateism, we all can recognize productive outlets for our time and energy.

Finally, a historical overview of the roots of the modern liberal's obsession with the redistributive power of the State, you will be surprised (bypass the rhetorical flourishes):
The article provides (unintentionally) an interesting overview of how the conservative movement was co-opted by the libertariian movement.  Traditionally, being conservative was about, well, keeping things more or less the way they are and respecting stability and social continuity above most other things.  A Conservative of a hundred years ago supported trade tariffs (they vehemently opposed free trade in the years just before and after Confederation) and would see nothing wrong in the disbursing of funds to attract business. A strong social welfare system (at the time provided primarily through charity and religious origanizations) was supported as a means of providing social stability.

As left-wing radicalism rose at the end of the 19th century, the conservative movement (concerned as it was with maintaining the status quo) began to define itself in direct opposition to the things the radicals stood for.  This was, at first, the usual "up-is-down, down-is-up" nonsense that fills the head of every first-year university activist, but it eventually coalesced around the idea of a strong central government providing an array of social services.  The conservatives opposed this on principle (it represented a change and was supported by their natural enemies) and found common ground here with radical libertarianism which was opposed to government involvment of any kind.  This anti-government slant eventually made it's way into the conservative Monetarist economic theories of such "thinkers" as Milton Friedman who imagined, in a kind of economic Darwinism, that market force was the only force that should guide the world and that any attempt to influence the markets was at best ineffective, probably damaging.

And on it goes, so that today we have a Conservative party that, if it had its way, would form a government and immediately end government social spending, end government spending on economic initiatives, end equalization payments to promote economic growth in undeveloped regions of the country and cut taxes to nothing.  Not to mention abolish the Senate and impose a sort of governance by referrendum system unprecedented in the history of world governments.  Doesn't sound like very much is being "conserved" to me.

The Red Tories that are much-mocked these days were, in fact, the last real Conservatives.  If you consider yourself Conservative, stop complaining about taxes and vote for the Liberal Party - that's your natural home these days.  If you want more money for the military, write your (Liberal) MP.  Otherwise you should willingly identify yourself as a radical libertarian and surf on over to www.libertarian.ca and join the party leader's brave fight against seat-belt laws.  There is no Conservative movement anymore.
 
hamiltongs said:
The article provides (unintentionally) an interesting overview of how the conservative movement was co-opted by the libertariian movement.   Traditionally, being conservative was about, well, keeping things more or less the way they are and respecting stability and social continuity above most other things.   A Conservative of a hundred years ago supported trade tariffs (they vehemently opposed free trade in the years just before and after Confederation) and would see nothing wrong in the disbursing of funds to attract business. A strong social welfare system (at the time provided primarily through charity and religious origanizations) was supported as a means of providing social stability.

As left-wing radicalism rose at the end of the 19th century, the conservative movement (concerned as it was with maintaining the status quo) began to define itself in direct opposition to the things the radicals stood for.   This was, at first, the usual "up-is-down, down-is-up" nonsense that fills the head of every first-year university activist, but it eventually coalesced around the idea of a strong central government providing an array of social services.   The conservatives opposed this on principle (it represented a change and was supported by their natural enemies) and found common ground here with radical libertarianism which was opposed to government involvment of any kind.   This anti-government slant eventually made it's way into the conservative Monetarist economic theories of such "thinkers" as Milton Friedman who imagined, in a kind of economic Darwinism, that market force was the only force that should guide the world and that any attempt to influence the markets was at best ineffective, probably damaging.

And on it goes, so that today we have a Conservative party that, if it had its way, would form a government and immediately end government social spending, end government spending on economic initiatives, end equalization payments to promote economic growth in undeveloped regions of the country and cut taxes to nothing.   Not to mention abolish the Senate and impose a sort of governance by referrendum system unprecedented in the history of world governments.   Doesn't sound like very much is being "conserved" to me.

The Red Tories that are much-mocked these days were, in fact, the last real Conservatives.   If you consider yourself Conservative, stop complaining about taxes and vote for the Liberal Party - that's your natural home these days.   If you want more money for the military, write your (Liberal) MP.   Otherwise you should willingly identify yourself as a radical libertarian and surf on over to www.libertarian.ca and join the party leader's brave fight against seat-belt laws.   There is no Conservative movement anymore.

the common ground between these two groups is their support for the capitalist system. but it seems to be for totally different reasons.
traditional small-c conservatives want to keep it because it has a proven track record of success. for libertarians, the appeal is its compatibility with their absolutist notions of natural law.
that might explain the greater flexibility that tories have traditionally shown on economic matters, and the inflexibility of the latter.

my $0.02


 
squeeliox said:
the common ground between these two groups is their support for the capitalist system. but it seems to be for totally different reasons.
traditional small-c conservatives want to keep it because it has a proven track record of success. for libertarians, the appeal is its compatibility with their absolutist notions of natural law. That might explain the greater flexibility that tories have traditionally shown on economic matters, and the inflexibility of the latter.
Exactly, but my point was that conservatives have never (historically) been free-market purists.  They've certainly be capitalist as opposed to communist, but a Conservative of a century ago would be appalled at the proposal that we should just cut loose all market regulation and let things sort themselves out, whatever the social cost.  This side of conservatism is the relatively recent influence of libertarianism.

For instance, Milton Friedman (the conseravtive economist poster-boy) talks about the Great Depression as a perfectly natural and not-necessarily-bad thing - just the market correcting itself.  And it is perfectly natural - in an open and entirely uncontrolled market.  But can you imagine (say) John A. Macdonald or Disraeli supporting the social upheaval caused by the depression simply because it's "natural".
 
Can you say Robo-cop or Blade runner, or any other bad cyber punkish movie/novel? What a totally free market may possibly do for you...
 
squeeliox said:
Toyota's OWN EXECUTIVES have cited the level of training and lower health care costs as reasons for their decision.
Yes, and you are claiming it took them 20 years to figure this out!

I'm sure they have a whole lot of other reasons, as well. Despite this, you claim to know with absolute, utter certainty that Toyota's ONLY REASON for locating in Ontario is due to how its unemployment rate compares to an unknown theoretical number -- and a single one at that. i think i'll go with the Toyota execs on this one, thanks.
No, it is a simple argument that I will re-iterate for the 50th time: the single reason that Toyota is choosing to locate in Ontario is that it is NOW cheaper.  Uneployment numbers are indicative of the reason: they are not the reason.

They (and pretty much every other auto manufacturer) have been choosing to locate in the states because costs *have* been lower there.

The regulatory environment down there hasn't deteriorated meaningfully (actually they were offered a great deal of incentives to locate in the states) but costs have risen BECAUSE labour costs are increasing due to increased utilization (this isn't even advanced economics: the demand (for labour) curve has shifted to the right (which happens every time a new manufacturing plant is built) resulting in a higher equilibrium price point (for labour)).

>> You are claiming that that the Healthcare system in Ontario is lower cost AND that Ontario people are genetically superior (more trainable) AND that Toyota's executives (and that of every other auto manufacturer) are so stupid that it's taken them 20 years to figure this out.  Give your head a shake!
 
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