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Majority of Canadians not interested in joining the CAF

I wouldn't say that less people considering it a 25-year career would mean that fewer people are going to recruiting centres.
The issue is that the CAF sold itself for years as a career with a pension as a carrot. With new demographic for whom a long career or a pension is not what drives them, we’re not attracting as many people as we could. We need to market ourselves in many different ways to appeal for many different types of people, not just those that want a full 25-year career. Once people are in, we need progressively better incentives to keep them in.
 
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It's not combat, but full-time police and firefighting gigs are extremely competitive to get into, both carry the risk.

One thing about that type of job, they don't transfer you from your station, schedule or partner / crew.

Unless you bid for one. Even if you do, your new station or HQ, would be within city limits - so, no need to sell your home.

That may, or may not be, inportant for some.. That's for them to decide.
 
I agree, but what it shows is less and less consider it a career, meaning less volume going to recruiting centers, and even less candidates to select.
I wouldn't say that less people considering it a 25-year career would mean that fewer people are going to recruiting centres.

There are plenty of articles saying that the current generation aren't tied to lifetime careers. So, maybe offering it as one is the wrong approach. What do our allies in Australia, New Zealand, etc do?

I'm sure others have said it here but offer it as something different when you're in your early 20s. If you want to continue, then make it a career.

On the other hand, we're one of the few employers to offer a pension you can collect before age 65. That won't appeal to an 18-year old, but probably will to a 25 or 30-year old.
I think this makes the future even more bleak for the organization. Workers now-a-days are used to the notion of job-hopping. Get a job, work there for a little bit, leave for a better paying job. In a very real way that's often the only way to get ahead in one's career.

We, on the other hand, are hamstrung. Because we only ever hire at the ground level, we'll get the people in the door, we'll spend money to train them up, and then they'll leave for better positions. We don't ever gain the benefit of hiring people who had been trained elsewhere, because no matter what we only take people in as 2Lts or Privates. We're not recruiting majors or CPOs.

So the only real way to combat that would be to make sure that people who we do have in aren't able to find better positions, by making the positions they do have better than what they could get elsewhere. This will require significant changes in both compensation and the way we go about doing business. Especially the whole "you're posted, I don't give a shit if you can't afford to buy a place there" part.
 
Congratulations. You and people like you are the reason we're bleeding personnel.

He's not wrong. It is part of the gig, but that's not to say it should be, or that we shouldn't try to do better.

People joining need to accept that there will be lots of hardships and sacrifice, the onus is on the CAF to do their best to mitigate it and not use people like they're an easily replaceable resource.

I'm not sure if our recruiters are just lying to people or what's going on but there's been a serious lack of managing people's expectations. I kid you not a few weeks ago I seen a memo where a new soldier wanted to get out of going to Wainwright because they didn't have anyone to watch their dog and (new buzz phrase) it would negatively impact their mental health.
 
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One thing about that type of job, they don't transfer you from your station, schedule or partner / crew.

Unless you bid for one. Even if you do, your new station or HQ, would be within city limits - so, no need to sell your home.

That may, or may not be, inportant for some.. That's for them to decide.
Exactly. That ties into the rest of the post. I don't buy the "Canadian's today are soft" reasoning. Plenty of dangerous jobs are filled. Plenty of hard jobs are filled. In my opinion the issue isn't that people don't want the jobs-it's that people don't want the employment structure, and I don't have an answer for that, except for maybe reserve reform (which only really helps the Army).

And related to that. 10+ million Canadians live in Southwestern Ontario and the Golden Horseshoe. Assuming proportional distribution of Canadian's willing to do the "job", fully 1/4 of the pool has to be willing to move away from the their lives, friends, families (with limited to no chance of returning full time in their professional lives) before they even consider the rest. Like you said, important to some, and for them to decide.
 
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Does the RCMP have issues with their people not liking being posted around and living in remote areas?
 
steve carrell anchorman GIF by FirstAndMonday
 
I would guess the first three have relatively high retention rates, compared to the CAF.

As for truck drivers, I have read the industry has a poor retention rate, and many are searching for jobs that offer better pay, benefits and working conditions.

That years ago it was considered a better job than now.

The Truck Driver Shortage – The Dirty Truth No One Talks About​


On the other hand, ( at least in the U.S. )
See also:
 
Does the RCMP have issues with their people not liking being posted around and living in remote areas?
Yes. Constantly. And it’s actually not enforceable if a person fights it hard enough.
 
Well, we're not going to hire in people above ground level unless we start headhunting other countries' militaries, which they might resent, or hire from the Golden Company or Second Sons.

The pension (and pretty much any DB plan) is a pretty good deal. People are free to leave and job hop as much as they wish. They might not be thinking too much about retirement, but there are plenty of horrible examples out there of people who failed to plan for it. Pinning hopes on inheritance? Maybe, if governments don't get so starved for cash that they take most of it away.

The number of people needed relative to the number of people not thoroughly disinterested still works in the CAF's favour. The correct answer to "survey shows X% of people not interested in CAF" is not "we will change", but rather should be "their commitment factor is obviously not high enough anyways".
 
We poached a few LCdrs on exchange from the RN and that billet stopped getting filled. May have just been a coincidence, but it was a no brainer for them. They had a better QoL here, got a pay raise, etc and had better chances for promotion.

Might be easier for the navy side, as the RN, RAN and RNZN operate a similar watch and trade system, so for engineers it's not much of a transition, other than figuring out a different bureaucracy. Know a few people that switched over the other way as well from the RCN, so if you bring something to the table they will be happy to take you on.
 
Why not bring in qualified personnel at higher ranks? The CAF has announced that they'll be buying Airbus air to air refuellers, which are based on the Airbus A330 platform. Why not hire an instructor pilot with 1000+ hours on type from Air Canada and bring them in directly as a senior major?

Why not bring an experienced Nurse Practitioner as a Capt IPC 7?

In military occupation with direct or near-direct correlations with the civilian workforce, entry level recruiting is an obstacle to getting an effective workforce.
 
He's not wrong. It is part of the gig, but that's not to say it should be, or that we shouldn't try to do better.

People joining need to accept that there will be lots of hardships and sacrifice, the onus is on the CAF to do their best to mitigate it and not use people like they're an easily replaceable resource.

I'm not sure if our recruiters are just lying to people or what's going on but there's been a serious lack of managing people's expectations. I kid you not a few weeks ago I seen a memo where a new soldier wanted to get out of going to Wainwright because they didn't have anyone to watch their dog and (new buzz phrase) it would negatively impact their mental health.

Back in the day, a canny lad would have figured out how to have the dog adopted at the Regimental Mascot ;)
 
Well, we're not going to hire in people above ground level unless we start headhunting other countries' militaries, which they might resent, or hire from the Golden Company or Second Sons.

The pension (and pretty much any DB plan) is a pretty good deal. People are free to leave and job hop as much as they wish. They might not be thinking too much about retirement, but there are plenty of horrible examples out there of people who failed to plan for it. Pinning hopes on inheritance? Maybe, if governments don't get so starved for cash that they take most of it away.

The number of people needed relative to the number of people not thoroughly disinterested still works in the CAF's favour. The correct answer to "survey shows X% of people not interested in CAF" is not "we will change", but rather should be "their commitment factor is obviously not high enough anyways".

Or we haven't done our homework with respect to Gen Z, especially re: that flexibility thing:

How To Meet Gen Z’s Workplace Expectations​


Like the Millennials who came before them, the Gen Z cohort — which is starting to graduate from high school or college and get their first adult jobs — have grown up with technology literally at their fingertips. This generation has never known life without the internet — or, for some, without smartphones. Their worldview has been profoundly shaped not only by the ability to broadcast far and wide their opinions, frustrations and perceived injustices but also by events like the Great Recession, in which many of their parents lost jobs and older Millennial siblings were forced to move back home. Then came the pandemic.

Gen Z’s pre-pandemic expectations of flexibility in the workplace are more likely to be met given the changed reality in the past 18 months of most non-essential workers working from home. Recognizing that every individual will have their own preferences, here are a few ways Gen Z could impact the way we work in the years to come.

Values-Based Careers


On top of pandemic-related health concerns, Gen Z faces some of the greatest environmental, social and economic crises in history. And, as noted earlier, this is a generation that has no hesitation in confronting an issue, raising their voice and calling for change. As consumers, they support brands that align with their values and rely on those values when making their career choices. According to “The Deloitte Global 2021 Millennial and Gen Z Survey,” nearly half (49%) of the respondents said they have made choices on their career path and potential employers they’d like to work for based on the organization’s values and ethics.

Gen Z, along with Millennials, is the generation leading the Great Resignation, leaving careers and companies that they feel are not working in society’s best interest or in alignment with their own moral code. This could leave industries and organizations that are slow or resistant to change facing a long-term talent shortage as Baby Boomers and Gen X employees retire.

The Gen Z and Millennial generations, in particular, want to work with a company that stands for a purpose beyond simply making a profit and want to feel their work is making a positive societal or environmental impact. Employers can empower these workers, leveraging their passion and determination to create a better future through activities and policies such as establishing employee support groups (ESGs), supporting community activities and offering volunteer time off (VTO).

Flexible Schedules

Gen Z is no longer unique in demanding work-life balance, especially now that many of the employees who have worked productively out of the office for nearly two years have grown accustomed to the new flexibility of a remote work structure. Despite this, according to the Deloitte study, Gen Z expects to spend more time working in an office setting once pandemic restrictions are lifted, and many have expressed excitement at the prospect of experiencing a formal work environment, although not necessarily full-time. Perhaps this is not surprising, given that this is the

The 40-hour, 9-to-5 workweek is not as appealing to most Gen Z workers, who prefer space to pursue personal and professional fulfillment on their own terms. At Wonolo, we recently published data that showed many Gen Z’ers are gravitating toward gig work as a flexible way to pay off student loans and focus on other entrepreneurial endeavors and personal passions. Enabling employees to work from other offices, or remotely from a location they have aspired to live, or providing the flexibility to pursue a graduate degree part-time gives Gen Z the opportunity to grow both professionally and personally.

When Deloitte asked which employee characteristics have become most critical to the success of their company, 40% of Gen Z respondents cited flexibility and adaptability; this sentiment was notably higher than those who listed “expertise and proficiency in the roles for which employees were hired” (24%) and having “values that align with our organization” (14%). The promising news is the same survey found that more than 60% of Gen Z respondents said their companies had developed policies to support flexible working hours and personal and sick leaves.

Benefits And Perks

Today’s recent graduates are looking for employee benefit packages that not only offer the basics, but also help with non-professional parts of their lives.

For recent graduates — many of whom have hefty college loans to repay — saving for retirement takes a low priority. While some employers go as far as assisting with student loans directly, there are other ways to ensure Gen Z is fiscally fit, including providing financial planners to help with consolidating loans and show them how to save for an emergency.

Lifestyle benefits also are becoming popular. Gym memberships or subsidies are common perks offered by employers. In the age of Covid, ensuring mental wellness has taken center stage, and many employers have begun offering free access to meditation apps and other benefits to keep employees’ minds fit. New lifestyle perks such as flexible spending accounts for items or activities that keep employees healthy and well-rounded have also emerged as a popular perk. These allow employees to expense anything within a specific dollar limit — from a once-in-a-lifetime ski experience to art supplies to a subscription to the opera — that helps them to unwind, expand their horizons and let off steam.

And, while five years might seem like an eternity to a new grad just starting out in the workplace, sabbaticals are making a comeback, with companies offering a month’s paid time off — on top of the earned PTO — to travel, kick back or otherwise recharge as a reward for longevity.
Just like the Millennials before them, Gen Z’ers bring new perspectives and new expectations to the working world. Companies that remain flexible and open to doing things differently in a way that resonates with this group will remain top of the list as new grads hit the job market.

 
Congratulations. You and people like you are the reason we're bleeding personnel.

It's like some people forget that loyalty is a two-way street. If we want people to stick around, we need to make it worth their while. Berating them about how "IT"S PART OF THE GIG WHY DID YOU SIGN UP" when they express displeasure about aspects of the job which are destroying their finances, relationships, etc will result in "You're right, why the hell did I sign up, I'm out of here".

If we want to keep people, we need to be a better employer than the alternatives. Stop telling people that they "can always vote with their feet", BECAUSE THEY ARE AND THAT'S THE BLOODY PROBLEM.

Or, you know, instead you can yell at people when they tell you why they're leaving. That'll improve morale.
Me and people like me are the reason we are bleeding personnel?

Sigh........................

Congrats btrudy. You have cracked the code. BONUS: In 32 days I will be retired, and you will have one less person to push back on your incessant whinging. I will anxiously study the next recruiting stats to see the impact of my retirement.

Who told you, or others, that a career in the CAF would not have challenges? If some are voting with their feet because they don't like it , GOOD. I would suggest that choosing a job in the CAF does not give one license to say we need to be a "better employer" because circumstances placed one in a position they didn't like. Again, welcome to the real world.

The BLOODY PROBLEM is that some CAF pers demand that the CAF cater to their demands, instead of understanding the demands of the CAF. A "me" vs "we" approach is incongruent.
 
Why not bring in qualified personnel at higher ranks? The CAF has announced that they'll be buying Airbus air to air refuellers, which are based on the Airbus A330 platform. Why not hire an instructor pilot with 1000+ hours on type from Air Canada and bring them in directly as a senior major?
Because that experienced Air Canada pilot probably makes 250K+ a year, working 8 days a month, and will refuse to work for 140K busting his ass off with non-flying duties.
 
Exactly. That ties into the rest of the post. I don't buy the "Canadian's today are soft" reasoning. Plenty of dangerous jobs are filled. Plenty of hard jobs are filled. In my opinion the issue isn't that people don't want the jobs-it's that people don't want the employment structure, and I don't have an answer for that, except for maybe reserve reform (which only really helps the Army).

And related to that. 10+ million Canadians live in Southwestern Ontario and the Golden Horseshoe. Assuming proportional distribution of Canadian's willing to do the "job", fully 1/4 of the pool has to be willing to move away from the their lives, friends, families (with limited to no chance of returning full time in their professional lives) before they even consider the rest. Like you said, important to some, and for them to decide.
I think you can add to that the two-earner family factor. If I'm reading these stats right Canada has around two million couple families where only one member is a wage earner and 5 million couple families where both members are wage earners. That shows just how important having a second wage earner is to a family and how much stability for them in their employment is to their lives. Note particulalry how much higher the median income is for double earner families - nearly three times for male single earner families and nearly four times for female single earner families.

Our bases are generally not conducive to jobs (especially well paying jobs) for the spouse wage earner. That earning loss really becomes a factor as children come along as the member's career progresses.

Lets not mince words. I loved my military career but I saw a tremendous increase in my earning potential as a civilian. Being able to stay as a reservist was a bonus.

🍻
 
Why not bring in qualified personnel at higher ranks? The CAF has announced that they'll be buying Airbus air to air refuellers, which are based on the Airbus A330 platform. Why not hire an instructor pilot with 1000+ hours on type from Air Canada and bring them in directly as a senior major?

Why not bring an experienced Nurse Practitioner as a Capt IPC 7?

In military occupation with direct or near-direct correlations with the civilian workforce, entry level recruiting is an obstacle to getting an effective workforce.
So an Air Canada AC is now going to be an instant flight commander, writing PERS, managing sec 32/34 and teaching tactics?

Yeah, that should work.

Hey- I have an idea. Let’s poach warehouse managers from Amazon and make them Log O Majs in a Service Battalion. Same thing, right?
 
So an Air Canada AC is now going to be an instant flight commander, writing PERS, managing sec 32/34 and teaching tactics?

Yeah, that should work.

Hey- I have an idea. Let’s poach warehouse managers from Amazon and make them Log O Majs in a Service Battalion. Same thing, right?
Put them into the depots or ADM Mat? Certainly. Makes perfect sense.
 
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