Light Support Weapons & Infantry Automatic Rifles

[MilEME09]

From the timeline i've read about the SARP program and such they want this thing or what ever it evolves into ready for fielding by the end of the decade. Remember this is a prototype so lets wait and see what it turns into

 

[daftandbarmy]

Gossip picked up on a blogspot....

Shall be known as "Operation Silk Purse from Sow's Ear"  :nod:

 

[Blackadder1916]

Reminds me of this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jVsQToSfag

I suppose it is a generational thing, but it reminds me of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPhZsauluXM

 

[KerryBlue]

I suppose it is a generational thing, but it reminds me of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPhZsauluXM

Where can I get one of those... toys were so much cooler in the 60's  :nod:

 

[a_majoor]

We could spend a decade, millions of dollars and create three new headquarters while trying to field this, or simply go shopping for a weapons system that is already adopted and provides all these functionalities (using current 5.56 X 45 ammunition):

S&T Daewoo K-11

 

[MilEME09]

Yes but it doesn't have that Over-slung 40mm launcher  >

 

[dangerboy]

Interesting design. Although the article says that steps have been taken to use composites and other advanced materials to reduce weight, the prototype still looks like it's heavy and bulky. Could you imagine having to parade with one of these things? How would you shoulder arms, or do the present arms manoeuvre? It doesn't look like it would lend itself very well to SMG C1 or even C8-style drills.

I would like to think that when it comes to designing and selecting weapons that how you would do ceremonial drill is not a factor that they would consider.

 

[Jarnhamar]

They're in for a surprise when they try to sight that bad boy in at 100 meters.

Of course the dummy designing that makes more in a year than I probably do in 10.

 

[LightFighter]

I would like to think that when it comes to designing and selecting weapons that how you would do ceremonial drill is not a factor that they would consider.

It seems the ability to do rifle drill was a factor in the past.

Due to both budgetary concerns and the desire of the Infantry Corps RSM to have a weapon suitable for rifle drill (not SMG drill) the 20" barrel was retained - despite the desire and recommendations of the soliders that had been deployed to Kosovo to adopt a flat-top version of the C8 for Infantry usage.

https://www.army.ca/wiki/index.php/C7A2

 

[daftandbarmy]

As a reminder of what it takes to be successful in the assault against a peer/near peer enemy....

This is a picture of 5 soldiers from an 8 man section of 3 PARA on the ranges in Belize, Baldy Beacon ranges, in 1983 immediately following the Falklands War.

Lessons Learned from that conflict are in evidence: 2 x GPMGs per section. As I recall, 1000 rounds per gun was the standard load. (BTW, this is not my photo, but we implemented the same SOPs in 1 PARA.)

That's a total of about 50lbs of GPMGs plus 120lbs of ammo per section, plus personal weapons, LAAWs, grenades etc, so high standards of battle fitness are clearly a concurrent battle winner.

It's too bad we seem to be regressing to accepting a smaller calibre light support weapon at the section level just because it's lighter.

 

[MilEME09]

the good thing is the new ammo type is much lighter in weight, testing the states has done suggests a soldier could carry 3x the ammo for the current weight.

 

[Kirkhill]

It seems the ability to do rifle drill was a factor in the past.

https://www.army.ca/wiki/index.php/C7A2

Glad the priorities are in the right place.....

However if you are going to do things properly you should just sling the latest weapons and issue Lathis  ..... 4 foot of bamboo with a brass tip

http://www.vajramutthi.org/en/articles/lathi/

Or if you prefer a more doctrinally sound weapon the ancestor of the bayonet was the pike and the ancestor of the pike was the quarter-staff - a six foot length of best ash.

I can see it now:

RCR - Present Staffs.  Shoulder Staffs.  Order Staffs.  Ground Staffs.  Pickup Staffs.  Fix Paintbrushes..... >

 

[Kirkhill]

As a reminder of what it takes to be successful in the assault against a peer/near peer enemy....

This is a picture of 5 soldiers from an 8 man section of 3 PARA on the ranges in Belize, Baldy Beacon ranges, in 1983 immediately following the Falklands War.

Lessons Learned from that conflict are in evidence: 2 x GPMGs per section. As I recall, 1000 rounds per gun was the standard load. (BTW, this is not my photo, but we implemented the same SOPs in 1 PARA.)

That's a total of about 50lbs of GPMGs plus 120lbs of ammo per section, plus personal weapons, LAAWs, grenades etc, so high standards of battle fitness are clearly a concurrent battle winner.

It's too bad we seem to be regressing to accepting a smaller calibre light support weapon at the section level just because it's lighter.

Just a point on the 2x GPMG per section - I found it interesting reading in Frost's "2 Para Falklands" that although the sections were issued 2 GPMG each, half way through the Goose Green action Platoon commanders and Coy Commanders were grouping their GPMGs to get better suppressive effects and control ammunition expenditure.    The practice was apparently continued in the later battles.

Weren't 2x L4 Brens per section also issued to some battalions for the Falklands?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Just a point on the 2x GPMG per section - I found it interesting reading in Frost's "2 Para Falklands" that although the sections were issued 2 GPMG each, half way through the Goose Green action Platoon commanders and Coy Commanders were grouping their GPMGs to get better suppressive effects and control ammunition expenditure.    The practice was apparently continued in the later battles.

Weren't 2x L4 Brens per section also issued to some battalions for the Falklands?

In addition to the section GPMGs, each battalion had (and still has) a MG platoon with 9 x GPMGs. And they desperately needed all of them.

The Bren guns were also used by those in 3 Cdo Bde as that Bde has an arctic warfare role for which the Bren Gun was used - while skiing if you can believe it. Much handier and easier to travel with than a GPMG, and a 7.62mm round that is needed to 'beat winter'.

 

[Old Sweat]

Just a point on the 2x GPMG per section - I found it interesting reading in Frost's "2 Para Falklands" that although the sections were issued 2 GPMG each, half way through the Goose Green action Platoon commanders and Coy Commanders were grouping their GPMGs to get better suppressive effects and control ammunition expenditure.    The practice was apparently continued in the later battles.

Weren't 2x L4 Brens per section also issued to some battalions for the Falklands?

Grouping of Brens was also done in some units in the Second World War. .

 

[Loachman]

Where can I get one of those... toys were so much cooler in the 60's

A friend had one of those.

I had https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DkYTRYB6tU

 

[Loachman]

It's too bad we seem to be regressing to accepting a smaller calibre light support weapon at the section level just because it's lighter.

It's alright, though. The loss of weapon and ammunition weight has been compensated by the addition of body armour and battery weight. Everything balances out.

 

[KevinB]

the good thing is the new ammo type is much lighter in weight, testing the states has done suggests a soldier could carry 3x the ammo for the current weight.

Negative ghostrider.

CTA ammo saves aprox 30% *depending upon caliber and weight of projectiles.  Your dumping the brass casing, for a polymer housing.

CLA (Caseless) can save 50-55% *Same caveats as above -  but CLA is still not ready for prime time in small arms.

Even at the best case scenario with CLA your only really going to half your ammo weight, with the more realistic CLA options is you will save 30% in ammo weight -- so now you have room for more batteries etc...

 

[Kirkhill]

Tangent Alert (quelle surprise)

On the battery front, rather than having spare batteries for everything howcome all this gear doesn't come with USB trickle charge ports?  Then you would carry only the batteries on board the gear and one High Amp-Hour battery with a USB cable to recharge all the rest.

Kind of like this thing

(Apparently called The Wirecutter.

Or maybe they could just put USB ports on the radio bricks and issue on standard battery that would not only supply  the radio but could also recharge all the other devices in the platoon.

 

[KevinB]

All the Powered Rail stuff so far arcs out when wet...

Not good for Mil usage.


It's coming, but not in 5-10 years IMHO.
  At that point you can use the weapon's cycling action to generate electricity...