Light Infantry - a definition, roles, requirements, capabilities, and a vision for the future

[Kirkhill]

author=KevinB link=topic=32580/post-256644#msg256644 date=1124685352]
I think 9 identical units is impossible unless you want units that are incompetant with both roles.

My own personal feeling is we are better off making ALL 9 units LI.
make specialty sub routines in the different units.

I think we agree here.    Send in the SMEs on the first wave, maybe have a 2nd unit trained and ready (eg 2 Mountain) and then if follow on forces with the same skills are required train them up prior to deployment.

send the LAV to the Armour (heck aren't they looking for roles?) They are the SME's on crewing it anyway.
If you want to have a hard vehicle to role up to a DA in - LI-SOC dudes can figure out how to drop a ramp if nec...  

Agree with statement one. Not sure about statement two -   on the other hand how do the USMC MEU-SOCs handle manning the Amphitracks?   Are they specialists or "just" marines?

I would use reservists as the regular dismounts for the "CAV".   They can learn the system on pre-tour run up - with specilized theatre set ups for the system (hangin out the airsentry family hatches etc.)
They can be used for CAV QRF and local force protection.

That's   quite a statement although I can certainly agree on the roles - just not sure if that is a reserve or a "HUA" role (neat turn of phrase that Kevin  ;D HUA)

 

[KevinB]

A buddy of mine from the 1/75th refers to them as HUA's since they are worthless for anything else 

WRT my point two I was leanign more to some sort of specific DA's either high value hits (think Udday Hussien) or the worse case type of HR mission (into a forified position).  I think any Infanteer can be taught to do urban DA's very well with a month of decent teaching.

In regards to the reserve verus HUA mission - I think for a 48hrs to wheels up - canopy filed... That a LI-SOC shoudl be doing its own FP.

BUT for fixed term missions (not surges) in order to lessen then strain from the Armoured units multiple deployments (some of those guys have a monster rack) the cruchies in a CAV can be reserve positions.

Most reservists I have seen these days woudl be GTG with reg intergration within a month as long as specialized training is not needed
* some I'd take off the bus and replace reg guys...  I'm just talking a vanilla standard.


I don't think LAV or Coyote are black art items - and I definitely dont think they are the end all be all like others in the CF seem to think.

Biggest problem with my ARSOC derived model is the capital costs of kit for these units (LI-SOC) and then the ammo bill from keeping them fire-breathing head-crushing knuckle-dragging door-kicking action figures (to steal LF M4guru 's description)

 

[Kirkhill]

So just to clarify a position here Kevin  -  assume that it is a long duration mission like Afghanistan.

Government decides a Task Force is in order. Infantry unit along with a Cavalry Sub-Unit are the back bone.

Would you see:

one of the 9 battalions of regular infantry deployed with an attached LI-SOC company and the Cavalry squadron GIBs being Cavalry reservists

one of the 9 battalions of regular infantry, all of which would be fully LI-SOC capable, with Cav as described

or one of the 9 battalions of regular infantry with a LI-SOC company or two and "HUAs", the youngsters in the main body, being tasked to the QRF in conjunction with the Cav, acting as the GIBs.

I think I understand your preference, just looking for clarification.

Cheers.

 

[KevinB]

I dont want to sit at a gate picking my nose...

Seriously, I know some say - fine join JTF2 then - but you need some group to work with them - or some of their task turn into a waste of a high dollar assaulter.

It all depends on what role the Army/Gov't wants in Afghan - if they want to sitting around the airfield and guard perimeter then I think anyone can do it.

If they want to get active and seek out the threats to peace and stability - then that involves having more ski9ll sets in place.

All foot borne using real time video and audo transfer.
1) Urban surviellance operators and Field security assets for them. (Surgical HR capable)
2) Mountain Recce and Light QRF (and Airmoble Medevac and Heavier QRF)

3) Local more conventional Force protection assets - CAV patrol and screens and QRF (LAV and Airmobile)
4) Local Site Security and QRF (QRF should have LAV capability).

5) Local (and Larger Area) FID and Intergrate team working with the locals.  - these can intermix somewhat with #1 and #2 (but those should aslo have some standoff of OPSEC


Realisitcally the skill sets are not all the same and you cannot intermingle them all.

Then your forces to go out and act on the Int gathered.
6) The Intergrated LI-SOC and JTF assets - some of these can be rotated to do the FST roles for #1.

As an example (and I HATE plug and play TF's) you could use 3VP for roles #1 (with additional trg) role #2 and roles 5 and 6 (assuming we go full LI-SOC with the 3rd Bn's)

Roles #3,4 and some #6 (full open field combat) could be filled by the 1VP and LdSH. 

 

[Mountie]

I would like to see all light infantry and mechanized infantry battalions converted to medium infantry like the US Army Stryker infantry battalions.  Keep the LAV-III for mobility and protection, but replace the turret-equipped LAV-III with a Stryker LAV-III armed with a Protected Weapons Station instead of the Delco turret.  This would basically make the battalions light infantry mounted in APCs when required.  The specialized skills required to fight a turret equipped IFV would not be needed.  The US Army's medium infantry are more light infantry then mechanized.  They are trained to fight dismounted.  The Stryker is just a battle taxi.  A complete light infantry section can be carried in a Stryker since the turret has been removed.  Therefore, each battalion could maintain its dismounted/light infantry skills, a specialized skill (ie, mountain, airmobile, etc) and still maintain a basic motorized skill with the Strykers.

 

[ArmyRick]

Mountie, good point however we already have the LAVIII 25mm equipped IMV in place. I am not sure it would be so easy to swap it out for a PWS.

Its funny. The threat perceived in 1985 was BMP1 or BTR70, a LAVIII with 25mm would be ideal for that but we had APC with 50 cal now we have it but we really need 50 or 40mm MK 19 equipped LAVs (if you look at Mountie's perspective). Interesting thought.

 

[danteh]

I have tried searching multiple different topics and I really cant find an answer. I'm going to be joining the PPCLI and I was just wondering what is the different between Light Infantry and I guess the Regular Infantry? Is it the gear used? Are the tasks different for each?

Thanks Alot Guys

 

[FishOuttaWater]

Without even searching here, Google came up with this... I assume your curious about the "Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry"...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_infantry

Traditionally light infantry (or skirmishers) were soldiers whose job was to provide a skirmishing screen ahead of the main body of infantry, harassing and delaying the enemy advance. Light infantry was distinct from medium, heavy or line infantry. Heavy infantry were dedicated primarily to fighting in tight formations that were the core of large battles. Light infantry often fought in close co-ordination with heavy infantry, where they could screen the heavy infantry from harassing fire, and the heavy infantry could intervene to protect the light infantry from attacks of enemy heavy infantry or cavalry. Heavy infantry originally had heavier arms and more armour than light infantry, but this distinction was lost as the use of armour declined and gunpowder weapons became standardized.

But I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[danteh]

I did look at wiki but I've learned not to trust that 100% I am curious about PPCLI because after my BMQ and such thats what regiment I'm going to be with.

 

[Roy Harding]

The USUAL distinction currently in use (and it's not all that accurate, but accurate enough for your purposes, I think) is that light infantry is dismounted - IE, they don't have AFVs as their main form of fighting.

The "Light Infantry" in PPCLI is an historic appellation which is no longer accurate.  Two of the PPCLI Bn's are Mech (mounted), and one is light.

As I said earlier - this is not the text book answer, but is, I think, accurate enough for you for now.

 

[Infanteer]

Two of the PPCLI Bn's are Mech (mounted), and one is light.

Not for much longer....Infantry Companies preparing to deploy are "LAVing" up and the 3rd is working towards this.

 

[Roy Harding]

Not for much longer....Infantry Companies preparing to deploy are "LAVing" up and the 3rd is working towards this.

The only constant is change.

 

[vonGarvin]

Infanteer beat me to it.  The "Party Line" on the ORBATS of our battalions sees that two of three companies "mechanised", and the third "light".  (In this case, "light" means "no vehicles").  How it is in practice, however, is a bit more complex  :

 

[dapaterson]

For a while, someone had changed the text inside one of the Army's computer applications.  Anyone looking at 1st or 2nd Bn PPCLI in MONITOR-MASS would have seen the unit names as 1st and 2nd Bns, Princess Patricia's Canadian Mechanized Infantry.


Apparently, someone in the Army G6 has a sense of humour...