Liberal Party of Canada Leadership

[PuckChaser]

The problem is, Trudeau isn't rebuilding the Liberal party. He's grasping at straws using far-left advisors and its driving them into the ground. The NDP are now more centrist on most issues than the Liberals, and it's going to crush the party.

Trudeau doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to do whats necessary for the Liberals: A ground up rebuild of the entire team. Everyone's fired. Get a new core with new, fresh ideas. Only then does he stand a chance to become relevant. Until then, he's just a mouthpiece with nice hair.

 

[Altair]

The problem is, Trudeau isn't rebuilding the Liberal party. He's grasping at straws using far-left advisors and its driving them into the ground. The NDP are now more centrist on most issues than the Liberals, and it's going to crush the party.

Trudeau doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to do whats necessary for the Liberals: A ground up rebuild of the entire team. Everyone's fired. Get a new core with new, fresh ideas. Only then does he stand a chance to become relevant. Until then, he's just a mouthpiece with nice hair.

I'll agree to disagree.

When justin trudeau took over the liberal party, it was broke. It was demoralized. It was solidly in third place and had lost seats in 4 consecutive elections.

Justin trudeau now has the liberal party up within a margin of error of first place.  His party is second in terms of fundraising. He has survived the attack ads that has completely destroyed the previous two liberal leaders.

When coming into this campaign,  most people thought the ndp would pressure them from the left and the conservatives pressure them from the right leaving them with a ever shrinking middle from which to draw votes from, making then irrelevant. As of today, they are running second in the polls. They are looking to triple their seat count. Their fundraising is strong.

The liberal party today is a far cry ahead of where many pundits thought it would be, where Stephen Harper and Tom mulcair thought it would be, and I'm guessing many ordinary Canadians thought it would be. Will they win power or even official opposition?  Maybe not.  But the rebuilding of the party has begun and its actually improving under Trudeau as opposed to getting worst like it did under dion and Ignatieff.

So no, I don't believe that the liberal party will commit political suicide by throwing itself into a divisive leadership race. Especially in a minority situation where no one even knows when the next election will be.

 

[ModlrMike]

Cult of personality.

Which only gets you so far.

 

[cavalryman]

Cult of personality.

Which only gets you so far.

It got President Obama two terms, and arguably, he was no better qualified nor more charismatic than Mister Trudeau.

 

[Altair]

I hope that now that the NDP campaign is beginning to sink,  and with the LPC in solid second place nationally, people start calling for mr Mulcair's head.

Doubt it, people only seem to hate trudeau and want him to resign despite the gains the liberal party has made.

Never mind that the according to 308 the ndp might do worst this election than they did the last. I still hope the anti harper vote in the ndp flock to the liberals in the dying days.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

He's partnered up with Wynne. First mistake.

Second mistake. Not realizing that Wynne is using him as a stepping stone to secure her move to federal politics when things get to hot in the province\ when she gets her ass handed to her next election.

That she is using his campaign for a "what works\ doesn't work" experiment for her own campaign, at the expense of his. She needs him out of the way when she jumps to the big leagues.

JT is toast.

 

[Altair]

He's partnered up with Wynne. First mistake.

Second mistake. Not realizing that Wynne is using him as a stepping stone to secure her move to federal politics when things get to hot in the province\ when she gets her *** handed to her next election.

That she is using his campaign for a "what works\ doesn't work" experiment for her own campaign, at the expense of his. She needs him out of the way when she jumps to the big leagues.

JT is toast.

According to 308.com, which had every party seat count within 6 seats during the 2011 election, Justin trudeau is solidly in second place.

How is he toast again?

 

[PuckChaser]

Trudeau is toast in the sense that he was trumpted in to save the Liberal Party, but he's done nothing other than reverse some of the losses to the NDP. I strongly doubt he's cut into the support the Tories have, especially amongst Center-Left voters.

Tonight will truly be telling whether we'll see Trudeau around after the election. If he can hold his own in a free-format debate designed to exhaust talking points and cause real dialogue, he'll stick around. If he crashes and burns like he started to in the French language debate, there's going to be a lot of finger pointing within the Liberal Party circles.

 

[George Wallace]

I seriously think that Trudeau is toast already.  In my opinion he has had a bad case of "hoof in mouth decease" from the start of the campaign.  The more he opens his mouth, the more I am turned off.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

According to 308.com, which had every party seat count within 6 seats during the 2011 election, Justin trudeau is solidly in second place.

How is he toast again?

Just took a quick look to see if your response was to me.

I have you as Kilo_302 lite. As such you are on ignore, as he is, and I won't enter into dialogue with you.

Have a good day.

 

[Altair]

Trudeau is toast in the sense that he was trumpted in to save the Liberal Party, but he's done nothing other than reverse some of the losses to the NDP. I strongly doubt he's cut into the support the Tories have, especially amongst Center-Left voters.

Tonight will truly be telling whether we'll see Trudeau around after the election. If he can hold his own in a free-format debate designed to exhaust talking points and cause real dialogue, he'll stick around. If he crashes and burns like he started to in the French language debate, there's going to be a lot of finger pointing within the Liberal Party circles.

Save the liberal party? That's exactly what he and his team have done.

4 years ago people wondered if the liberal party would even exist in 2015.

6 months ago when things started to go sour for the Liberal party people wondered if they would be squeezed in fron the right by the conservatives and from the left by the ndp leaving them with a ever shrinking middle.

Today the liberal party is second in fundraising, beating out the NDP and second in the polls. The liberal party is improving it's results for the first time in more than a decade. Looking to more than triple the 2011 results.

Save the party? Accomplished. Next election, gun for the top job. Rebuilding takes time. But this is as good of a first step as anyone is going to see.

Now while all of you are gunning for mr Trudeau, and his exit from politics, what about Mr Mulcair? His party is now looking to get about 98 seats according to 308.com and its dropping by the day. The ndp are looking to be relegated to third place again. And this is after he pissed off his base in order to be more electable. Why is no one saying he is toast. Because if he doesn't even keep the ndp as the opposition never mind ruling party, I bet Mr mulcair takes a long walk on the snow.

 

[Altair]

I seriously think that Trudeau is toast already.  In my opinion he has had a bad case of "hoof in mouth decease" from the start of the campaign.  The more he opens his mouth, the more I am turned off.

If he finishes second in front of the ndp, what does that make mulcair? Really burnt toast?

Let's face it, if he gets second place, he's good. I don't think anyone expected a party with 34 seats to jump straight into goverment. It even took the CPC a few tries. And nobody was calling for mr harper to leave after he got official opposition in a minority parliament in 2004.

 

[Kirkhill]

Ahem.....

It applies just as much to the Liberals and the NDP today as it did to the Conservatives 8 weeks ago.

Related - interesting that the message has swung so much that the focus is now not on why the Conservatives aren't panicking but why the Liberals and NDP shouldn't be panicking - and on how being first loser might in fact be a win.

Just curious, me.

 

[PuckChaser]

Save the liberal party? That's exactly what he and his team have done.

4 years ago people wondered if the liberal party would even exist in 2015.

6 months ago when things started to go sour for the Liberal party people wondered if they would be squeezed in fron the right by the conservatives and from the left by the ndp leaving them with a ever shrinking middle.

Today the liberal party is second in fundraising, beating out the NDP and second in the polls. The liberal party is improving it's results for the first time in more than a decade. Looking to more than triple the 2011 results.

Save the party? Accomplished. Next election, gun for the top job. Rebuilding takes time. But this is as good of a first step as anyone is going to see.

Now while all of you are gunning for mr Trudeau, and his exit from politics, what about Mr Mulcair? His party is now looking to get about 98 seats according to 308.com and its dropping by the day. The ndp are looking to be relegated to third place again. And this is after he pissed off his base in order to be more electable. Why is no one saying he is toast. Because if he doesn't even keep the ndp as the opposition never mind ruling party, I bet Mr mulcair takes a long walk on the snow.

Saving the Liberal party means drawing center-right voters like me away from the Tories. I see them doing the opposite, drawing voters from the left side of the NDP. I wouldn't be too quick to declare victory or that the Liberal party is saved. I still don't know what they stand for. They're 2nd in fundraising, but is that money flowing in because the party is set up well, or is led by Trudeau? The Tories have a guy that 60% of the country doesn't like, but they can fundraise the combined amount of the Liberals and NDP every year. Its because people know what they're getting when they support them. If Trudeau came in quietly, and established a party doctrine and policies, and then started to promote them, I'd be willing to buy this "rivival" isn't just a Trudeau effect.

I completely agree with you about Muclair. If he tanks even going into a close third behind the Liberals, after the Tories being there for the taking, he's going to get skewered. His left-wing base that he's desperately tried to keep quiet will tear the party apart, which is good news for the Liberals, but even better news for the Tories.

I think its also telling that you state rebuilding takes time, and yet think Trudeau should be Prime Minister. It really shows you're more anti-Harper than pro-Trudeau. The Liberals would do well to learn from not winning this election, and take a few years to refine what they need to do to win, than to ride the coattails of Pierre Junior with no real, substantive change to party doctrine. I mean come on, they had Chretien out stumping for them. If that doesn't say "we haven't moved on from the early 90s", I don't know what does.

 

[Altair]

Saving the Liberal party means drawing center-right voters like me away from the Tories. I see them doing the opposite, drawing voters from the left side of the NDP. I wouldn't be too quick to declare victory or that the Liberal party is saved. I still don't know what they stand for. They're 2nd in fundraising, but is that money flowing in because the party is set up well, or is led by Trudeau? The Tories have a guy that 60% of the country doesn't like, but they can fundraise the combined amount of the Liberals and NDP every year. Its because people know what they're getting when they support them. If Trudeau came in quietly, and established a party doctrine and policies, and then started to promote them, I'd be willing to buy this "rivival" isn't just a Trudeau effect.

I completely agree with you about Muclair. If he tanks even going into a close third behind the Liberals, after the Tories being there for the taking, he's going to get skewered. His left-wing base that he's desperately tried to keep quiet will tear the party apart, which is good news for the Liberals, but even better news for the Tories.

I think its also telling that you state rebuilding takes time, and yet think Trudeau should be Prime Minister. It really shows you're more anti-Harper than pro-Trudeau. The Liberals would do well to learn from not winning this election, and take a few years to refine what they need to do to win, than to ride the coattails of Pierre Junior with no real, substantive change to party doctrine. I mean come on, they had Chretien out stumping for them. If that doesn't say "we haven't moved on from the early 90s", I don't know what does.

The liberals do not need to steal votes from the CPC. By every single measurable metric, the CPC voters are the most committed to their party.

No, the LPC and the NDP need to grab voters who are looking for change. 50 percent of NDP voters have the LPC as their second choice, and NDP supports are the least sure of their choice. Same for the NDP , they need to target LPC supporters who have the ndp as their second choice.

If one considers that 60 percent of Canadians want change, both the NDP and LPC have 30 percent support,  60 percent combined, and that 50 percent of their supports have each other as their second choice, that leaves 30 percent of the electorate in who might swing one way or another in order to deliver change.

Why go after the hard target that is the CPC voter?

Go for the voters who want change.

 

[George Wallace]

If he finishes second in front of the ndp, what does that make mulcair? Really burnt toast?

Pretty much.

 

[Altair]

Pretty much.

So what was harper after the 2004 election then?

 

[George Wallace]

So what was Harper after the 2004 election then?

Nowhere what these two are at the moment.  In fact, very much more a intelligent and thoughtful leader than the two of them put together.  But that is only my opinion. 

 

[Altair]

Nowhere what these two are at the moment.  In fact, very much more a intelligent and thoughtful leader than the two of them put together.  But that is only my opinion.

My point there was Harper had improved the CPC result but still lost the election.

It's the situation trudeau is looking at atm (we'll see if that continues to election day)

I really, really doubt that he steps down after this election. I really really doubt that the party tries to force him out. I think the LPC gives him a chance to improve the LPC results in the next election.

 

[ModlrMike]

My point there was Harper had improved the CPC result but still lost the election.

True, but I don't think that the power center of the party expected him to win. I think the goal was to learn the ropes and show people what he could do. In that sense, I would call that a win. You have to remember that within the Conservative party there's no faction championing the "natural governing party" paradigm. This is where liberal leaders are vulnerable. The power center of the party expects them to win every time out.

There's no shortage of swords held by the Liberal party available for Mr Trudeau to fall on if he doesn't carry the day.