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Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????

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So 70 percent of people care. Residential schools probably being widely known as the worst offense.
Maybe I'm the one out of touch then.

Out of curiosity what number of that 70% do you think have actually read the 94 calls to action line by line and understand reconciliation? And if someone interviewed those respondents on camera, what percent do you think would sound like the Canadians interviewed and asked questions about gun laws and eagerly nodded their head at finally making machine assault gun AK rifles illegal in Canada?

70% of Canadians care enough to say they care on a phone survey, I wonder how many take reconciliation promises into account when voting. Donated money, mailed their local MPs and so on.
 
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I think we're all on the same page here, if looking at it from different angles.

Most people agree, residential schools were bad. Maybe in the context of the times, they had good intentions - but all in all, they turned out be a pretty bad idea.

Do Canadians care? They care to the extent of saying "residential schools were bad!" when asked in a survey or the conversation comes up.

Do they in the sense that they think about the issue daily? No. (Unless ofcourse they were directly involved or affected somehow)


Politicians say what they moreso not to offend anybody, in the fear of losing potential voters - what they think voters want to hear - and what will keep them out of hot water. It is what it is, but the reality is that politics boils down to a 'popularity contest for adults'. The more 'likeable or popular' you are, the more likely to get voted into office.

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I know this is going to totally blow your confirmation bias out of the water here, but actually listen to what he says and you'll see they took the "meant for education" part completely out of context. This article has a video with his FULL statement, not a clickbait title designed to manufacture partisan outrage.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/erin-otoole-residential-schools-comments-1.5844307
I watched the video back when it came out originally, and I really don't see where it was taken out of context.

Let’s learn from the bad mistakes and, in some cases, tragic circumstances of our past. But when Egerton Ryerson was called in by Hector Langevin and people, it was meant to try and provide education.It became a horrible program that really harmed people, and we have to learn from that, and I wear orange, and I do that. But we’re not helping anyone by misrepresenting the past.

Now I could go on about how it wasn't meant for education, and started off from the get go as a horrible shameful program, but I don't need to. Erin O'Toole says it best.


Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole walked back his comments about residential schools in a statement Wednesday, saying the system was not intended to try and “provide education.”

“The system was intended to remove children from the influence of their homes, families, traditions, and cultures,” O’Toole said in a statement emailed to Global News.

O’Toole added that the “very existence” of the schools is “a terrible stain on Canada’s history that has had sweeping impacts on generations of Indigenous Canadians.”
 
Maybe I'm the one out of touch then.

Not impossible.
Out of curiosity what number of that 70% do you think have actually read the 94 calls to action line by line and understand reconciliation?

Probably not many, but that doesn't mean they don't understand the historical wrongs in a broad sense and support the idea of reconciliation.
And if someone interviewed those respondents on camera, what percent do you think would sound like the Canadians interviewed and asked questions about gun laws and eagerly nodded their head at finally making machine assault gun AK rifles illegal in Canada?

I'm not going to touch comparing historical and significant wrongs suffered by first nations to people effected by gun laws.
70% of Canadians care enough to say they care on an phone survey, I wonder how many take reconciliation promises into account when voting. Donated money, mailed their local MPs and so on.
It's hard to say how many care enough to effect the way they vote, but it can frame how they think about a leader and that can effect the way they vote.

Whether Canadians are Gung ho about reconciliation or just want some small steps made towards reconciliation is up for debate, I don't know the answer. What I do know is that what O’Toole said didn't serve either. The recent poll showing that near half of Canadians now have a unfavorable opinion on him isn't a surprise to me considering his comments and Canadians views on reconciliation.
 
Probably not many, but that doesn't mean they don't understand the historical wrongs in a broad sense and support the idea of reconciliation.

I'm not going to touch comparing historical and significant wrongs suffered by first nations to people effected by gun laws.
I used those interviews of gun laws as an example because the people interviewed seemed to think it sounded like a good idea (perhaps in a broad sense?) but didn't have a clue what they were talking about.
I've seem similar videos about Canadians supporting ending woman's suffrage.
The recent poll showing that near half of Canadians now have a unfavorable opinion on him isn't a surprise to me considering his comments and Canadians views on reconciliation.
Again I wonder how many people felt what he said was wrong compared to how many were told what he said was wrong and nodded their head. But I agree the perception is enough to sink him.

Do you think Conservatives are held to a different standard than Liberals by the media in Canada?
 
I used those interviews of gun laws as an example because the people interviewed seemed to think it sounded like a good idea (perhaps in a broad sense?) but didn't have a clue what they were talking about.
I've seem similar videos about Canadians supporting ending woman's suffrage.

Again I wonder how many people felt what he said was wrong compared to how many were told what he said was wrong and nodded their head. But I agree the perception is enough to sink him.

Do you think Conservatives are held to a different standard than Liberals by the media in Canada?
I think Canadians are smart enough to make their own opinions on matters.

Canadians didn't need to be told blackface was bad, they heard the stories about it, knew how it hurt certain people and could come to the obvious conclusion that the PM done goofed, even if it was in the past.

In that same sense, Canadians know now how bad the residential school system was, how it hurt generations of first nations, and that it is inexcusable. Then when O'Toole said what he said, Canadians naturally came to the opinion that what he said wasn't acceptable, and to his credit, he backpeddled from that position right quick.

The media may try to shift a story one way or another, but I feel like these days of social media and instant commenting, a lot of opinion is shaped online before the news can even break a story. The influence on opinions by the media is shrinking IMHO, with people reading stuff on Twitter or Facebook, sharing it with friends, family and coworkers in real time, so what you get is probably a more pure visceral reaction than days of media trying to spin anything.

In this case, I don't think the media went overboard with it, he apologized and people moved on. The unfortunate thing for O'Toole was that it was probably the in first impression many Canadians got of him due to his winning the leadership in the middle of a pandemic and not having huge name recognition beforehand.
 
That's a good post with good points, thanks.

If you don't mind me going down a bit of a rabbit hole about the Conservative vs Liberal media different standard I have a question. I don't mean it to come across as whataboutisim either , it's a genuine question.

Suppose the Conservatives have a pay for play $2000 a plate dinner and a first nations woman stands up and points out she had to scrape the money together from the reserve to pay the price to get in. She starts giving O'Toole shit about a first nation issue on the reserves, and O'Toole cracks a joke saying "thanks for the donation lol". Do you think O'Toole would get away with a quick apology and the media would move on? Or would it be a huge conservatives are racist, right wing whie supremecy strikes again, conservatives hate first nations kind of thing?
 
...a first nations woman stands up and points out she had to scrape the money together from the reserve to pay the price to get in. She starts giving O'Toole shit about a first nation issue on the reserves, and O'Toole cracks a joke saying "thanks for the donation lol".
Now that you've put this out on the Internet, the MSM will pick it up and O'Toole will be called to account and have to apologize. It won't be accepted and the Liberals will run with "conservatives are racist, right wing white supremacy strikes again, conservatives hate first nations kind of thing"
 
That's a good post with good points, thanks.

If you don't mind me going down a bit of a rabbit hole about the Conservative vs Liberal media different standard I have a question. I don't mean it to come across as whataboutisim either , it's a genuine question.

Suppose the Conservatives have a pay for play $2000 a plate dinner and a first nations woman stands up and points out she had to scrape the money together from the reserve to pay the price to get in. She starts giving O'Toole shit about a first nation issue on the reserves, and O'Toole cracks a joke saying "thanks for the donation lol". Do you think O'Toole would get away with a quick apology and the media would move on? Or would it be a huge conservatives are racist, right wing whie supremecy strikes again, conservatives hate first nations kind of thing?
Replace O'Toole with harper and you get a different answer.

Trudeau, harper, they are old hats now. Everyone knows how they fit, you either like them or you don't, and no matter what they do at this point people largely aren't going to change their minds.

So Trudeau did blackface and mocked a first nations woman. Peoples opinion of him moved very little.

Now you get O'Toole, or any new party leader. Little name recognition, a blank slate. People don't know what to expect from said person, good or negative. Then they start saying and doing things as leader of a political party, filling in the canvas so to say. It's going to affect people's opinion of them more than the old hat.

So to answer your question, it depends on the leader. If new party leader Marc Garneau were to hypothetical mock a first nations lady at a pay for access dinner, it might sink him. If a returned harper did it, not so much.
 
I think we're all on the same page here, if looking at it from different angles.

Most people agree, residential schools were bad. Maybe in the context of the times, they had good intentions - but all in all, they turned out be a pretty bad idea.

Do Canadians care? They care to the extent of saying "residential schools were bad!" when asked in a survey or the conversation comes up.

Do they in the sense that they think about the issue daily? No. (Unless ofcourse they were directly involved or affected somehow)


Politicians say what they moreso not to offend anybody, in the fear of losing potential voters - what they think voters want to hear - and what will keep them out of hot water. It is what it is, but the reality is that politics boils down to a 'popularity contest for adults'. The more 'likeable or popular' you are, the more likely to get voted into office.

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People forget that the residential schools, the restrictions on movements by FN's, the internments of Canadians of Austro-Hungarian and Japanese descent were all the "Political Correct" thinking of the day. That same attitude persists.
 
I guess so. Can you imagine the circus of O'Toole had a blackface picture pop up? I think it would go a little farther than "us" experiencing things differently, learning a lesson and moving on lol
Anyhow thanks
You forgot a step, Jarn...
 
Leger Poll out today

LPC - 37
CPC - 28
NDP - 22
BQ - 7
GR -5

  • 86% of Canadians agree with travel restrictions (snowbirds, we see you)
  • 87% answered yes to "should we ban international travel until end of covid"
  • 75% of Quebecers think their curfew is working
  • 70% intend on getting vaccincated. 15% do not intend, 15% to not know (vs 56% Y, 30% N, 14% DNK in the US.....we might be fucked)
  • Intent to vaccinate is up 8% in Canada since October
  • 68% expect covid safety measures (masks in public, social distancing, etc) to remain in place after covid
  • 78% do not believe vaccines to be dangerous. 9% do, 13% DNK (19% anti vaxx in the US)
  • 60% afraid of contracting covid, 37% not afraid
  • 54% very or somwhat satisfied with Federal Government response, decline from high 60's for most of the covid crisis
  • 53% of Ontarians very or somewhat satisfied with Doug Fords response, this is a significant decline from months ago, down from the low 80's
  • 26% of Albertans satisfied with Kenney's response

The voting intent breakdown is interesting. LPC is winning Ontario 42%-28% over the CPC at the moment, that's big. Alberta is vote splitting away from moving away from being such a CPC fortress. 48% CPC support, 25% Liberal support, 24% NDP support.

- O'toole doing terribly with women, 25%

 
Leger Poll out today

LPC - 37
CPC - 28
NDP - 22
BQ - 7
GR -5
338Canada is showing similar numbers but with the Tories showing a bit more strength:

Lib: 35.6
CPC: 30.6
NDP: 18.2
BQ: 7.0
Grn: 6.5
PPC: 1.7

Both polls put the Liberals within striking distance of a majority.
 
338Canada is showing similar numbers but with the Tories showing a bit more strength:

Lib: 35.6
CPC: 30.6
NDP: 18.2
BQ: 7.0
Grn: 6.5
PPC: 1.7

Both polls put the Liberals within striking distance of a majority.
I wonder if anyone but the liberals or the bloc want a election this spring.
 
By anyone, you mean the public, because we're the only ones to whom it should matter? There's any number of parties that were punished at the polls because the public didn't want an election.
 
By anyone, you mean the public, because we're the only ones to whom it should matter? There's any number of parties that were punished at the polls because the public didn't want an election.
Premier Horgan wasn't punished, nor Premier Higgs, two others who pulled the plug on their minority government and waltzed into majorities.
 
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