Latest Threat to CF in Combat: Smoke Breaks?!?

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Give me one good positive reason why that anyone should be allowed to smoke while in the employment of the CF.

And other then the powerful tobacco lobby and the tax revenue, why does gov'ts allow people to continue to smoke despite all the medical science that says it is bad for the health of everyone?

Give me one good positive reason why that anyone should be allowed to leave the confines of the base while in the employment of the CF.

And other then the powerful car industry and the tax revenue, why does gov'ts allow people to continue to drive despite all the facts that says it is bad for the health of everyone?

SMMT............criminy, I'm waiting for the Monty Python guy to show up and tell us we must stop this thread because its getting too silly.

I hate tobacco but, wow........

 

[2 Cdo]

Give me one good positive reason why that anyone should be allowed to leave the confines of the base while in the employment of the CF.

And other then the powerful car industry and the tax revenue, why does gov'ts allow people to continue to drive despite all the facts that says it is bad for the health of everyone?

SMMT............criminy, I'm waiting for the Monty Python guy to show up and tell us we must stop this thread because its getting too silly.

I hate tobacco but, wow........

Exactly Bruce. Where do we stop this? Ban tobacco, ban alcohol, ban fast food, ban vehicles, ban air conditioners. : SMMT when you start wanting things banned because you don't like them (even if they are still legal) don't piss and moan when they start to ban something you enjoy!

I smoke and I know it's bad for me. I also don't recommend anyone start this habit, but it is still a legal product. I don't drink anymore and I have seen the damage drinking does and I would have no problem with making it illegal for anyone in the CF to consume alcohol. Lets see the uproar over that!

By the way I'm not really for banning alcohol, just making a point about the silliness of banning legal products in the CF.

 

[Armymedic]

Bruce, got to love an emotional debate...well, more emotional for some then others.

Why are people permitted to smoke? It is legal, there for it is permitted. Yes I agree.

But now let say movement begins to ban smoking in the CF, while on duty, on CF establishments, in barracks, on overseas missions, in the field and on HCM ships, just like has happened in the public places, restuarants, businesses, universities, etc, etc....

What arguement would smokers in uniform have to continue the status quo?

edit- And I won't even start into how many people a yr die as a direct result of a history of smoking, vs firearms, vs veh accidents - things you can not possess without a license. And if any of you think smoking is ok...why do we not allow our kids do it?

 

[armyvern]

Hay everybody ... I've had cancer!!

If you don't smoke now ... don't start!! It's not good for you!!

That being said,

It's my choice to smoke, it's legal. I do so in the properly designated areas during authorized breaks.

If you want the CF to enforce my health, enforce it for everyone. That includes non-vegans.  What gives you the right to determine which health issues should be enforced upon whom while they serve in the CF?? I'm in shape, I smoke. I know a lot of unhealthy eating non-smokers though who aren't in shape.

Why do you advocate looking after my health for me, but not advocate pulling the donuts and Timmies away too, along with all the crappy deepfried foods served in the Mess Halls across the CF?? Do you know how many people a year die of heart disease??

Yep, no more leaving the base during working hours to go on those Timmies heart-disease-in-a-cup coffee runs folks ... unless of course, you're only in it for the 8-4 paycheck and are willing to not deploy etc. It's only fair.

 

[PMedMoe]

And if any of you think smoking is ok...why do we not allow our kids do it?

None of us has said it's okay, as a matter of fact we've agreed it's bad for you and no one who isn't a smoker should start. If drinking is okay, why don't we let our kids do that?  Oh, right, it's illegal if they're under age.

Smoking has been pretty much banned in all areas, certainly indoors (including tents and vehicles). Our smoking area is out behind the garbage dumpsters (how's that for a stigma??). Pretty soon, you won't be able to smoke anywhere.  But forcing people to quit?  Can't see it.

I really like this from dataperson:

Though there is the valid question:  if DND/CF opposes smoking why do we (a) provide smoking areas and (b) let people take smoke breaks?  We don't provide ongoing support to other addicts during the day - no heroin breaks, or booze breaks, so why to we enable and encourage nicotine addicts in their day-to-day self-abuse?

Illegal drugs and drinking on the job are both prohibited in the CF.  Last time I looked, smoking wasn't.
Let's take away coffee next, because that's bad for you too!!  Can you imagine the caffeine withdrawals??  :

That being said (facetiously or not, take it as you will).  This argument can go on forever.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Armymedic]

But its a quiet day, and I am bored...Because I do not smoke, I got nothing better to do right now than to argue.  :'(

Let us meet in the middle and say we should not encourage recruits to take up smoking by giving them "smoke" breaks and make them run all the way to the main entrance(via stairs only) of St Jean Mega to have a butt. We continue to have programs for the assistance of people who do smoke to quit. An outright ban is counterproductive, and probably unconstitutional.

As for that deep fried food issue in our Mess halls..... Nothing is too good for the worlds fattest professional military.

BTW- In a Lg DD - the coffee is not what is bad for you (1-2 cups daily, good for a few things, more then that....bad), but the 2 globs of 18% cream...

 

[geo]

Drinking does affect a soldiers taskworthiness, as does smoking. Being enemy party when the 'friendlies' have smokers. They show up brilliantly in NVGs. It also means they are holding something that is not a firearm, and the Australian Army prohibits smoking within 5m of live ammunition during training.

Based on Wes' comments, Aussie rules and regs on smoking in operations are somewhat looser than what you declare.

 

[armyvern]

BTW- In a Lg DD - the coffee is not what is bad for you (1-2 cups daily, good for a few things, more then that....bad), but the 2 globs of 18% cream...

I'm well aware of that as I mentioned in earlier posts when I first brought up the issue of the troops and Timmies... and made mention of my preference for "black"  ;D

Now, about the round of fisti-cuffs....

 

[Armymedic]

and made mention of my preference for "black"  ;D

Now, about the round of fisti-cuffs....

Once you go black.....

Fisti-cuffs. Nah, not my style. Although, you, me and a couple pair of Flexi cuffs.....

ps-so much for the sites PG rating.

 

[Yrys]

Although, you, me and a couple pair of Flexi cuffs.....

PICTURES !!!

Add: I'm feeling a bit young, as I never though something like Flexi cuffs existed...

 

[Sig_Des]

Add: I'm feeling a bit young, as I never though something like Flexi cuffs existed...

Not as comfortable as they may sound

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexicuffs

Plasticuffs are more uncomfortable than handcuffs for the person being restrained

 

[Armymedic]

sure....

 

[Kiwi99]

To all people who want to ban smoking in all CF areas and bases and exercise and operations.  Fine, go and tell that young Private who has just been in his first firefight that he cannot have a cigarette.  There are bigger things to worry about in the CF than who smokes where and around who.  We are in a war, but all these self righteous people can do is complain about smoking.  Get a grip.  It is people like the anti-smoking dude and some posters on here that are the reason the CF is as touchy feely as it is now.  Back to a shot of rum a day, smokes in the rations, and looking at porn whenever we want to.  God forbid that I be human.

 

[retiredgrunt45]

What will these idiots think up next, can't have cofee now because it makes you hyper. Give me a break.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

..and in a related story, I just heard on the news that the Supreme Court just upheld the ban on tobacco advertising.

 

[Munxcub]

BTW- In a Lg DD - the coffee is not what is bad for you (1-2 cups daily, good for a few things, more then that....bad), but the 2 globs of 18% cream...

Actually there's nothing wrong with the 18% cream, it's all the refined sugar that gets you in trouble. Plus, milk is nice and balanced for carbs and protein, but the 18% just adds in a nice dose of fat (which, despite what people think is crucial to not being fat...) That's why I get my Tim's with 3 cream, no sugar (let me live in my world of creamy denial if you don't see it my way)

my $0.02

 

[PMedMoe]

..and in a related story, I just heard on the news that the Supreme Court just upheld the ban on tobacco advertising.

And what about that anti-smoking group that wants to ban movies that have smoking?  They say it portrays smoking as "glamorous".   :  I wonder what they think about rampant drug use and promiscuous sex in movies?  I guess these people will be watching a lot of Disney cartoons.....   Can you imagine a whole generation missing out on old (and newer) war movies or westerns?

 

[1feral1]

I, personally, don't want some drunk in the trench next to me.

Drinking and soldiers. There is a time and a place for it. Gone are the days of 'piss' in the field, and if any of my soldats had 'piss' in the field, or drinking on duty, they'd be doing the hatless dance, and if in theatre, they'd be well on their way back to Kuwait, and sent home embarrassed to love ones and those back at the unit. When on my tour in Iraq, we had an sactioned period of two beers per man perhaps on specific days of national siginficance, of which you could count on one hand, plus only 1/3 of the troops were allowed at a time, as not to quash our tactical advantage over the Enemy, who were always active, and near by.

As for smoking and soldiers, now a days we have two things, one is policy, and the other something called 'duty of care', and this is enforced both at home and abroad, although on Ops it may be relaxed somewhat, the the overall guidelines must be adhered to. Policy is simply that. Failure to do so causes nothing but problems not only with the pers who don't smoke, but overall, as its policy, anda like it or not, thats just how it is.

Smoking in the field, depending on whats going on, I don't have an issue, regardless of your 'smokers rights' its whatever the tactical scenerio and your leadership dictate, and I guarantee ther would be no smoking at night on a tactical ex period! As for the same on Ops, you would simplly be eating that cicarette, and your crediibility with others would expire.

Australian soldiers have known the rules, and have accepted them, liking it or not.

We have something also called commonsense, so use it.


Wes

And no, I don't smoke.

 

[armyvern]

Gee Wes,

We have almost the same rules and common sense here too. What's the issue?

"Duty of Care" applies to overall health no?? So that's my issue. Why just the smokers and the drinkers?? "Duty of Care" not extend to walking heart attacks waiting to happen that we advocate by serving greasy food in the Mess' and allowing the troops to consume  4 or 5 Timmies loaded with fat and sugar a day?

That's the point. If they want to clean me up for the benefit of my health ... then clean up everyone's health. Put it all in the rules. No more unhealthy vices for anyone. Seems fair to me.

 

[KevinB]

Unless your in a covert OP -the fact of the matter (and I am a NON smoker -- but I'm also a realist) smoking is not going to do sweet fuck all.  Please... discussing looking at smoker under NV  ??? - dude if the Enemy has NV they dont need to see smokes - they can count pixels on the uniform.
Driving in a LAV or Coyote - whats the big deal -- if the family hatches are open.

The real thing that pissed me off -- is a lot of smokers are going around and ensuring that its "tobacco free" areas now -- not just smoke free -- so chewers are getting boned too -- some claim "its disgusting" well I happen to think a lot of the fat asses in uniform are disgusting -- but I cant outlaw fat people from the CF...