Last Words from GO!!!

[orange.paint]

I've decided to post a PM I just received from GO!!! I know he will be missed on the site.




To all,

I've PM'ed Mike Bobbitt, Bruce Monkhouse, (who put me on C&P) and George Wallace about my recent disciplinary action. My posts were pretty harsh - but I felt they were within the boundaries being established by other posters (including mods) in the thread in question - which has been deleted now.

To his credit, GW was the only one that even responded, and pointed out that his most provocative comment was not directed at me specifically, and apologised. In the context of the thread as it existed then, that was hard to believe, but after a night to cool off, I believe him.

I've decided to drop off of this site completely, which is too bad, because I've learned alot on army.ca, both about the military, writing, myself and topics which I would never have had a knowledgeable person to ask otherwise. (topics like the C17, certain weapon systems and armour, as well as vetting some of my academic papers) There is really no point trying to make a strong case in any topic when disciplinary action is not applied evenly to squabbling members of the site.

The worst part about this is that I convinced more than a few guys to come back here and post on their recent experiences and set some people straight on what is really going on overseas and what needs to be done in reference to kit, training etc. To the man, they are all gone now, bitter after lurking/posting for awhile, they all stated that they were'nt willing to deal with the constant barrage of sarcasm, second guessing and innuendo regarding their competence, experience and length of service, from both mods and members, all of which went unpunished, while they were firmly dealt with for responding in the same manner.

To an extent they are right. I have presented my case in a number of arguments, been ridiculed by the staff, and subsequently disciplined for responding in kind over the last three years. The first dig, it would appear is permitted, but not the last, and especially not from me. Not exactly the free exchange of ideas spoken about in the required reading. The identity of the poster seems to be the deciding factor in how well it is recieved.

In any event, army.ca will go on, I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'll even be missed in the big scheme of things, keep up your good work here, I liked the way you guys think, which is why I'm sending you this.


Maybe he wont be missed in the big scheme of things.I believe he was a well respected man here,even if you didnt agree with him.Well spoken,knowledgeable.He brought a lot of valued information to the site,and for most of us he will be missed.

Sorry to see you go.

 

[Roy Harding]

He'll be missed - I ALWAYS took note of anything Go!! posted.

I suspect, however,that like you "ex_rcac_011, he'll be back.

Roy

 

[Dissident]

Meh. Army.ca is harsh. Wear a cup.

I symphatize, I find myself on the short end often, as I am not an established member. At the same time, the monitering keeps the overal quality higher than other sites I frequent.

Annoying and even frustrating at time, nonetheless Army.ca is a very good thing.

AS far as GO!!! is concerned, in my eyes he was as guilty as anyone else.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

That's a shame, truly. GO!!! had some fantastic posts and a lot to offer us as a community.

I'm disappointed things didn't work out for him here, I wish him the best of luck and hope he considers a return some day.


Cheers
Mike

Edit: with regards to not replying to his PM, I am typically at least a day behind in my inbox.

 

[Mike Baker]

Sorry to see him go, but, I guess, that is the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[ArmyRick]

Too bad he has chosen to leave. He has some very valid points.

 

[rmacqueen]

Too bad he has chosen to leave. He has some very valid points.

Having been involved in the thread in question I have to agree.

 

[socialhandgrenade]

As a personal friend to GO!!! ,(out in the real world)I know that i have the opportunities to listen to his point of view ,Which is a plus to me and a loss for the rest of the site ,I am not saying that he is a perfect person and that he is correct in all of his post but he brings his opinion to the table in a clear and concise manner.which is more then i can say about a lot of the people that post here.But every one is entitled to there own opinion.that is what is great about this site.I just wish that it was not so one sided in the views presented IE.the mods are always right and the rest are wrong. So with that if you want to give me a warning as well then go ahead .I don't know what for but isn't that the case for a lot of people here.

cheers

SH

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

SH, please see this post:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/56969/post-522409.html#msg522409

It was not a unilateral action nor are mods always right. (Or users always wrong). Nobody demanded that GO!!! leave, he earned himself a warning and has decided to make that his legacy here, unfortunately. It's also important to note that GO!!! is not new to the warning system, and has worked his way up the ladder over time. Mind you, he has done it slower than many.

You should know that he is well respected by many of the staff and senior members, however being a solid poster most of the time doesn't excuse running off the rails some of the time. The warning was appropriate, it's unfortunate that GO!!! chose to leave vs. play by the rules, but that is his choice to make.


Cheers
Mike

 

[socialhandgrenade]

Oh i know Mike that GO!! can go over board with his views and Actions.Having done Basic,Battleschool,same platoon in battalion,as well as Op Apollo together ,not to mention getting conned into helping him roof. :

    I just wish that people could see any disciplinary actions that are taken against the Mods.At the Same time we all have to experience bad days ,to realize what a good day is.So all I'm saying is that maybe some of those extreme views should be aloud instead of edited .Any way this is not a direct attack against any one ,and i do realize that GO!! can be a dink some times as well as my self its just a shame that his opinion will not be shared in this forum any more.


Cheers
SH

 

[George Wallace]

Meh. Army.ca is harsh. Wear a cup.

I symphatize, I find myself on the short end often, as I am not an established member. At the same time, the monitering keeps the overal quality higher than other sites I frequent.

Annoying and even frustrating at time, nonetheless Army.ca is a very good thing.

AS far as GO!!! is concerned, in my eyes he was as guilty as anyone else.

Actually, I andGO!!!and I did overstep our bounds on this medium, but I will not put blame on him.  Others contributed to the discussion and aided in misdirecting us all in diverging directions.  It is often hard using this medium to accurately convey our true feelings and passions.  People who have strong passions for the CF will defend them on this site.  Not having the ability to show emotions visually (Facial expressions, tone of voice, body language), nor have knowledge of who exactly is in your midst, plus the fact that response to a post is often hours or days apart and seemingly out of context, all of which can lead many to misinterpret what is actually being said.  Many of the discussions on this site, had they been held in 'real time', by a few, over beers in the Mess, would have been more jovial and have had much different results.  Unfortunately, on this site, there are many who carry on discussions with those of similar experience, and then have them derailed by some with little or no CF experience.  Many people here, are in reality very much in agreement in their passions for matters pertaining to the CF, but on this medium appear completely opposed in those views due to their differing perspectives on some topics.  

It is very difficult at times to accurately express one's passions, which brings us to the topic of professional writting......some hijack, eh!.....and how we should all take care in what we write and strive to proof read it, to ensure we remove as much doubt as we can as to what we are trying to say.  We are all at fault here.  We have all wanted to post a response that will be relevant, and in our haste, may have conveyed an emotion completely different that what we intended.  If unchecked, we see the topic spiral down the drain.  I have made that mistake by ignoring posts that members had made, who thought they were in support of me, but were actually taking matters further to an extreme or off topic.  I failed to stop and correct the matter, and saw it worsen instead.  

I have sent GO!!! a PM to ask him to reconsider, and I hope he does.

I, however, do not in anyway appreciate a person airing dirty laundry, as a third party, on this site.  I do hope that it does not happen again.


(To be clear:  Dissident, this is not directed at you.)

[Edit: Correction: "GO!!! and I"]

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

In reply,

GO!!, Lets establish a few things, I put you on C&P, not for the mud-slinging between you and George, but for the fact that after both of you slung mud, three,[ I thought it was two but I was corrected] Moderators, including the owner of the site, told EVERYONE in there to 'cease and desist'. YOU decided to post one more shot well after those warnings were put out. THAT is the reason for your warning, nothing else. You could have done what I did [log out] after my last post, which was an attempt to diffuse two individuals that can be rather hammer-headed, but that obviously fell on deaf ears, as I found out when I logged back in much later that night.
The only reason you got ANYTHING was you couldn't let the damn bone go..............

Now personally, I wish you would re-consider your actions in leaving the site. I enjoy your posts and knowledge as a member, even if one out of every 50 makes me cringe as a Moderator. We need guys like you that have BTDT and also have worked through other adversiries. I freely give my time on this site so that soldiers like yourself and others have a decent place to "chat" and learn. I do not do it because I was some uber soldier [HA} or because I have any special knowledge of military 'things'. I give the one thing I have, time, as I truly believe this is/can be a special website.

As for not replying to your PM, I don't reply to PMs that the poster also sends to Mike as an appeal. Does a redress go in front of the same person? No, for obvious reasons. I send out the warning with the caveat that you can appeal to Mr. Bobbitt and then I move on.
If you had sent me a PM asking just why, then I would have furthur explained just as I did in the first paragraph of this diatribe.

The whole place has noted the cracks in the site lately and they are being addressed 'in house'. Bear with us as this is a truly time consuming hobby and all the staff also work/have lives of our own. You should see subtle changes coming, which again will not please everyone but...................

EDIT: I see the boss [and now others] typed in a reply while I was typing but my one big fat finger is tired from the longest post I think I have ever made so I'm hitting reply anyway.

 

[armyvern]

I just want to take this time to interject my personal thoughts on a trend that GO!!! has mentioned in his letter below.

I have noticed a considerable upswing in comments that dismiss or are unrespective of a persons service; both ways however.

In much the same respect as GO!!! has pointed out this:

The worst part about this is that I convinced more than a few guys to come back here and post on their recent experiences and set some people straight on what is really going on overseas and what needs to be done in reference to kit, training etc. To the man, they are all gone now, bitter after lurking/posting for awhile, they all stated that they weren't willing to deal with the constant barrage of sarcasm, second guessing and innuendo regarding their competence, experience and length of service, from both mods and members, all of which went unpunished, while they were firmly dealt with for responding in the same manner.

To an extent they are right. I have presented my case in a number of arguments, been ridiculed by the staff, and subsequently disciplined for responding in kind over the last three years.

There are a great many returning Afghan vets posting who have been equally as dismissive and sarcastic of, and have posted innuendo regarding the competence, lack of TFA experience and general "unworthiness" comments regarding other CF members who have volunteered for service in Her Majesty's Canadian Forces. Most of which also went unpunished and were not firmly dealt with either.

What I am trying to say, first and foremost, is that we are all volunteers. We are supposed to be one Team. Both sides need to respectful of each other, and to respect each others service. Personnel do not deploy themselves. They are deployed, based on Roto CFTPO taskings. Some personnel have had the experience of having their names placed into that CFTPO by their Unit and others have not. Do not beget each others service based on tasking levels, priorities and CFTPO decisions made at levels much higher than the members themselves.

We are all professionals. That professionalism needs to come back to these boards with a vengeance, that is what makes this site what it is.

Go!!!, sorry to see you leave. I will miss your contributions to this site.

Vern

 

[rmacqueen]

We are all professionals. That professionalism needs to come back to these boards with a vengeance, that is what makes this site what it is.

I think you hit the nail on the head right there Vern!

 

[McG]

Tone & professionalism are issues we've been working to improve for a while.  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

I assume (and hope) that most people recognize that improvement requires everyone to do thier part (moderators, subscribers and all other members).  As a group, we can get where we want to go. 

 

[tomahawk6]

Go!! needs to take his punishment like a man. Leaving the board is a reaction to one's hurt ego and feelings of being dealt with unjustly. However, I have alot of respect for someone that sticks it out and seeks to put the issue behind him/her. I like to think in life that we are judged on our total life's work. I remember in my own career the ups and downs but each experience both the good and the ugly makes us better people.I also saw early on as a young private that if you didnt do as you were told you might not live to see the next day. We were on a mountain climbing exercise and we were told in training to always plan your route and if you got to a place where you cant move up call for help and wait. One soldier got in a spot where forward progress wasnt possible.Instead of waiting for help he jumped onto a legde 3-4 feet below his position. He lost his footing on the skree and picthed off the mountain over 600 feet. Go!! you have another opportunity to both learn here but to share your experiences I hope you decide to take that opportunity.

 

[geo]

Punishment?
Receiving a Verbal or Recorded warning OR a C&P are not punishment.
It is bringing certain deficiencies to the attention of the individual.  Nothing prevents GO from learning from the incident & soldiering on.

Have appreceated GOs comments in the past AND hope to join him in discussion again in the future.

Till we meet again!
Au revoir!

CHIMO!

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Punishment?
Receiving a Verbal or Recorded warning OR a C&P are not punishment.
It is bringing certain deficiencies to the attention of the individual.  Nothing prevents GO from learning from the incident & soldiering on.

Have appreceated GOs comments in the past AND hope to join him in discussion again in the future.

Till we meet again!
Au revoir!

CHIMO!

True. IMHO sometimes he seems to go off the deep end but generally he brings alot of good information to the discussions we have here.

I will certainly miss his posts 

 

[gaspasser]

IF GO!! went beyond, he should just man up and not let it happen again.  Leaving the site was overdoing it and, IMHO, childish.  Obviously, he's never been jacked up by a MCPL where his reply should have been..."it'll never happen again, MCPL" 
Live with the hit and move on. And yes, I've had the pleasure of being at the end of a Mods diatribe.
Soldiering on....
out

 

[McG]

All,
It is GO!!'s decision to be here or not.  There is no need to knock him for it.