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Keeping wounded in CF - merged super-thread

battleaxe said:
I've spoken with someone who applied for priority hire and-before he was even able to apply and be put on the priority hire list-he had to submit a letter that stated he fulfilled all the eligibility requirements. Released military personnel do not apply for priority hire, only to then be weeded out because they aren't eligible.  They are weeded out before even applying.
Medically released is not the only condition. The medical release must be due to a medical problem attributable to military service to effect eligibility for priority hire.

They are not weeding out anyone who is eligible before they even apply. They are weeding out those who are medically released due to injuries that are not service related (and some who are not even medically released) who apply for priority hire anyway with the attitude of "oh well, the worse they're going to do is say no, so I might as well apply".

Understand that not every medical release is due to service injury, and that those pers are not eligible ... but that nothing stops them from trying to apply. Nor are any pers who just VR stopped from applying. They are simply weeded out in the application phase by filling out the forms (ie letters) meant to show a fulfillment of eligibility requirements -- just as was done with the soldier you spoke to to determine his eligibility.

There is NO grand conspiracy to weed out members who are eligible before they even apply, rather those forms weed out the ineligible.
 
Michael O`Leary said:
Try an Access to Information request.  I think you need to reconsider your approach to trying to get information out of the members of this forum.

Milnet.ca Staff

Quite truthfully, this was never my intention...and  I am trying myself.

Bren
 
battleaxe said:
Quite truthfully, this was never my intention...and  I am trying myself.

Bren

Perhaps it was not your intention, but that is not how you are coming across in this medium.  You repeatedly express doubt over the numbers you have seen and repeatedly ask/challenge the forum members here for clarification while appearing to dismiss the rational explanations you are offered.  Your approach and persistence makes it look like you are presuming a conspiracy, including the possible involvement of those here because they don't have the precise information that would satisfy your curiosity.  Even if someone on these forums has the detailed data, there may be valid reasons (like privacy concerns) why they haven't expressed it here.  More likely (see Occams's Razor), no-one here has more information than has been presented.  So, I reiterate, if you want more information, try official sources and Access to Information requests.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
"Odious"* nonwoman waiting boob job so I've been told. LMAO. said:
Medically released is not the only condition. The medical release must be due to a medical problem attributable to military service to effect eligibility for priority hire.

They are not weeding out anyone who is eligible before they even apply. They are weeding out those who are medically released due to injuries that are not service related (and some who are not even medically released) who apply for priority hire anyway with the attitude of "oh well, the worse they're going to do is say no, so I might as well apply".

Understand that not every medical release is due to service injury, and that those pers are not eligible ... but that nothing stops them from trying to apply. Nor are any pers who just VR stopped from applying. They are simply weeded out in the application phase by filling out the forms (ie letters) meant to show a fulfillment of eligibility requirements -- just as was done with the soldier you spoke to to determine his eligibility.

There is NO grand conspiracy to weed out members who are eligible before they even apply, rather those forms weed out the ineligible.

That is exactly what I meant in my post-you clarified it in a much more logical way.  My intentions seem to be at odds with how I'm actually expressing my thoughts. I will attempt to be more clear in future.

I was, in my own inept way, trying to get across that the stats that were given on the priority hire requests vs. actual job placements would be an accurate reflection of the program between the years 2000 and 2005-because they would only take into account those military members who were medically released due to injuries attributable to service in SDAs. VRs and those released for other reasons would not have been admitted to the program.

Bren

Thank you
 
This is Mcpl P Franklin (as some have called me the poor sod with no legs) I continue to serve with pride and honour as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces.
As a medic there are many desk jobs that are left unfullfilled due to the chronic shortage of trained CF personnel.
I have been offered a teaching position at the school in Borden but only if I leave the army and come as a commissionare. (obviosuly that wont happen).

I have recieved my MEL's and I am on the paper work process of being 3 b medically released...once that paperwork is done then my file as all files of the wounded in action (not just afghan but all areas of operations) will sit on his desk till the time I decide to leave the army at my free will.

I do not take up a position and I do not force other members to deply more often.
The number of 100% disabled (like myself) are very few and far. 
We have 5 amputees from this war.
One a below the knee amp who is deciding to move on and leave the army.
We have Jody Mitic a double below the knee amputee that has dreams of redploying but most likely wont be able to due to the technology of the prostheticsa at this time.  (the americans have redployed on full tours in irag and afghan 8 amputee soldiers...they have kept in uniform just around 60 or so members and this is with a total of 750 major limb amputations from the war.  Also of note is that Jody was able to complete a 5 km race last week and im sure he will be the first double below to redploy in the western armies. (fingers crossed)

We have another amputee that was a infanteer and falls into the job of being unable to due this due to his pyhsical limitations.  So as a single above knee amputee plus a above the knee amputee he is taking a course in Kingston and will continue to have a CF career in a new trade.

I am a double above the knee amputee and my story has been well publisized.  As the above indicates had we been able to save the one knee joint (not even a working knee just the joint) i would be out of the wheelchair today.  As of now i am 80% of my time in the wheelchair...less walking in edmonton god forsaken winters and more in the summers.  I personally will be planning to stay in the military for a while longer as my 10 year mark comes up in aug 2009.  Field amb has offerred me a position on the upcoming 6b course (allowing me to be promoted to Sgt) and I will be making the decision to go one the course in the next few weeks.  I am currently on half days and with my chairity work and my public speeking apperances it is safe to say that I keep myself busy.

The other amputee from the war was a man by the name of Fredric Coutre (sorry if speeling is wrong) and he lost his leg below the knee in Nov 2007 and was unable to deal with the loss and committed suicide in Dec 2007.

So as many of you have talked semantics and whispered behind my back at the hospital, at a nd w or simply right to my face.  I plan to stay in the army.  The commanders intent is that all wounded soldiers are to stay in the armed forces andf have meaningfull employment.  Done.

A man in a wheelchair can do many things...serve as president of the United States, roll across the world (Rick Hansen) a man who is missing a limb can do many things as well....run across Canada, run sub 10 seconds in the 100 meters and therefore qualify for the Olympics but then to be turned down by the goiverening body as an amputee he has an unfair advantage.


Maybe as we debate the merrits of whay we are trying to keep wounded and injured soldiers in uniform we should as ourselves why?



What does a wounded soldier have to offer besides riding a warm desk and an easy pension.

Years of service and experience that can be utilized in the training schools throughout the CF (we are chronicallly short instructors and yet the mbrs with the most expereince are the ones people want to force out)

We have years of training under our belt...as a paramedic and 5b qualified i have a large sum of money that the CF has invested into me.

Anyone with over 3 years of experience or holds the rank of Mcpl or Captain and above are the type of people that need to be retained as they offer the best bang for your buck....imagine an instructor that is posted to the school and will not deploy so there will be a continuous service and teaching cadre for years to come?

Fitness can be tested in many different ways....v02 max is a good indicator of the physcial fitness thats someone has especially for someone like myself.

There is no reason to get rid of U of S because this way it prevents physically disabaled persons from entring the armed forces.  Some call me a hypocrit for saying so but we need a full fit fighting force at the basic training level and from that point on we have programs in place to either keep people fit, make people better through the CF health care system with its provincial partners and then releasing those that are "unable to keep up".  My injury is not because i weighed 400 lbs and i have a sore back and broken ankles as the result....mine is due to almost dying for king and country.  There is a difference.


Many who agrue thatI shouldnt stay in the army have put up many barriers in my path.  I imagine many soldiers would have quit after the incrediably poor treatment my fellow soldiers my commanding officer (at my old unit) and others have done to push if not force me to leave the Canadian Armed Forces.  I will leave when I am ready and in the mean time i will continue to tell the story of the wounded, work with other wounded soldiers as a peer support worker, teach tactical medicine and especially the value of the touniquet.  I will work with families of wounded and fallen soldiers, talk to the press and thefore the public about the fine work our soldiers are doing in Afghanisatn, I will continue to talk to Afghans that i have become friends with and tell their stories to people like the NDP and the "jack Laytons's" of this country.  I will go from base to base telling all this and promoting the ideas of supporting the troops and the mission as i still believe in it.  I will work with civilian hospital and health care systems so that every wounded and injured soldier that reurns will get the best care humanly possible.  I will continue to travel to places like Australia and the Unites States to talk about the care of the injured and the care of the fallen...I will also tell them that Canada is the best in the world and I will promote the idea that amputees and soldiers deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.


My travels throughout the us has led to the creation (with a group of fine people)a chairity called the Franklin Foundation that will help the needs of the amputees not just military but civilian as well. (www.naap.med.ualberta.ca).  Its always been my belief that since we dont have a NDMC (thats a good thing) that we need to promote the intigration of the military and the civilian health care systmes to give our members the best care possible.

I went to Australia in Nov 2007 at the rerquest of the Chief of the Army of the ADF.  He wanted to hear my story first hand adn also the care of the wounded and the care of the fallen.  We had  Brig Gen come with us and a Maj that was involved in some 26 repats of fallen or wounded soldiers.  The plan was to have 4 speechs (one at the ADF HQ with the CA, one at the Staff College, one open forum one (like a luncheon speaker) and one at the embassy.  They were so impressed with the cdn story that we ended up doing 14 speechs to every group you can imagine in the ADF.

That trip has directly resulted in an EOD member  who lost a hand, finger and an eye due to a booby trap in Orzgan province in early 2008 from being automatically released and pushed to VA, to moving to the EOD school in Perth.

So you can see wounded and disabled soldiers from operational tours, training for operational tours (i include jumpers with broken backs in that category) and others who suffer a disabling injury due to operational reasons should be retained.  Plus any argument about whether a wounded soldier should stay in uniform should be looked at through the coloured lens of the commanders intent.

Wounded soldiers are to be retained in the current positions or we have other positions within the CF that will allow these soldiers to serve with pride, dignity, respect and in a meaningfull way.

  :cdn:

Look outside the cubicles of this world and see the value that all people can give in this world and remember that all of us have a disablity in some way.  Mine is obvious others have a fear of heights, others have problems in public spaces, some hate needles, some arent good public speakers, some have bad knees from too many mountain mans, some have bad knees from too much running, some because they are overweight, some are obese, some are blind, some are deaf due to be an arty, some have the disability of being unable to see past the easy things in life...the cut and dry.  The world is full of grey and quite simply we owe (not just to myself as a wounded soldier) all our vets, wounded and injured soldiers the respect and freedom from worry for the rest of their lives.


Thanks for listening to my rant....

Master Corporal Paul Franklin

franklin.pm@forces.gc.ca

Med Tech
1 Field Amb
Cas Sup NCO LFWA


Soem may notice that i am a horrible speller....please take that as an example of what mild traumatic brain injury can do.....similar to a hockey player getting too many concussions...my TBI reflects itself in the higher brain function of spelling.  On an MRI there would prob be no changes from before the tour and there is no medical treatment for it as it would be akin to using a baseball bat where a needle might be more appropriate.  When you see a fellow Afghan vet (i use them as they are exposed to explosions fairly frequent and of course our EOD or CER guys) give them a lil bit of leeway on such simple things as spelling or math....there may be a good reason for it.
 
Paul,

Well put, BZ, good on you for saying it.

Folks like you and all who have served make me proud to be a Canadian and a CF retiree.

Best of luck to you in your recovery.  God bless.

Jack
 
thank you, Paul, for your service.......I sincerely hope that you and the other wounded will continue to be employed by the Canadian Forces.  You are such a wealth of knowledge and inspiration to others that it only makes sense to tap into that resource.  You are a credit to your country, to your unit, and to your family and friends.  Thanks again for your leadership in these extremely important situations.  Ubique
 
Thank you, Paul. Your eloquence, integrity and spirit shine through your written words.

I hope you will continue to tell this important and poignant story; it needs to be heard and will go a long way to help others.

Thank you for serving Canada; I sincerely hope you will continue to do so.

I pray your employer will recognize your continuing worth and value as an inspiration to others and as an asset to the Canadian Forces.


                  Even experience cannot cure a man of bravery.   
                                                                         
                                                                              Rene Quinton, Soldier's Testament, 1930  :cdn:

 
Thanks a lot for your words Paul, 

BTW, Cpl Frederic Couture was injured in Nov 06 and passed away in Dec of 07.  There is a BOI going on right about now to shed light on some of the circumstances that led to his act.... in some areas - he didn't receive as much help as he should have...

I am happy that things are going so well for you and that the CDS + CLS are supporting a move to retain our injured soldiers & offer them something better than a "shelf".  Career advancement is definitively something I did not see happening for the seriously injured.

Thank you for your hard work and dedication to the CF... Keep in touch

CHIMO!
 
MCpl. Franklin... Thank you. 

Your dedication is an inspiration to all soldiers, wounded or otherwise.    Keep up the good fight for all of us and we'll be there to support you.  :salute:
 
"Many who agrue thatI shouldnt stay in the army have put up many barriers in my path.  I imagine many soldiers would have quit after the incrediably poor treatment my fellow soldiers my commanding officer (at my old unit) and others have done to push if not force me to leave the Canadian Armed Forces. I will leave when I am ready and in the mean time i will continue to tell the story of the wounded, work with other wounded soldiers as a peer support worker, teach tactical medicine and especially the value of the touniquet."

I'm glad to hear you are getting this opportunity, many before you did not.  Your attitude and ethics are to be admired and your story should be an inspiration for others!     
 
Paul,

BTW, have talked to a number of friends at 5 Fd Amb....
They appreceate your friendship and positive words.

CHIMO|
 
Rather than open a new thread, thought this fit nicely on this one:

MPs want to increase SISIP payouts to individuals who lose limbs, sight or hearing, and want all CF members, full-time or part-time, to be treated the same way

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/03/31/5148971-sun.html

Soldiers who lose limbs, sight or hearing to roadside blasts or training accidents deserve more cash and part-time soldiers should be treated the same as full-time soldiers, say MPs demanding changes to the military amputee and injury compensation program.

Under 2003 guidelines, most Canadian Forces members are eligible for a maximum lump-sum payment of $250,000 if they lose both feet or hands or suffer another permanent major injury. The figure is $125,000 for loss of a single body part, and some classes of reservists on service of less than six months are capped at $100,000 and eligible for only half, or in some cases, one quarter, of the dismemberment claims for regular forces.

NDP MP Peter Stoffer slammed the compensation figures as too low, and said disparity between the forces amounts to outrageous discrimination.

"I don't care if it's one minute or one year, the minute someone puts that uniform on and they serve their country, whether it's domestic or overseas, if something happens to them they should be treated equally," he said. "Whether you're losing your foot in Gagetown or Wainright or Afghanistan, what's the difference to the person who lost the foot?"
 
ArmyVern said:
Medically released is not the only condition. The medical release must be due to a medical problem attributable to military service to effect eligibility for priority hire.

I was a part of this thread a while ago.

I've come back in to clarify the above point because somebody contacted me and tagged me on it; saying that it left the misleading impression that priority hire is only available to those medically released with disabilities attributable to military service.

In the course of this particular discussion, we had been discussing the policies that applied prior to the New Veterans Charter, and old info seems to have gotten tangled up with the new; looking back on it, I can see how it can be seen as misleading.

Being a details girl, I felt the need to clarify:

As of December 31, 2005, the federal public service priority appointment policy applies to all medically released regular force members (and to certain reserves based on length of service and/or depending if the disability is attributable to service).

Currently, the disabilities that cause regular force members to be released do not have to be attributable to service in order for them to qualify for priority hire consideration.

I also wanted to say that I appreciate that MCpl Franklin has decided to join in the discussion, and I’m wondering if he’d be willing to continue helping us to understand some things.

He stated, “I imagine many soldiers would have quit after the incredibly poor treatment my fellow soldiers my commanding officer (at my old unit) and others have done to push if not force me to leave the Canadian Armed Forces”.

In another thread, http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/71725.0/all.html (sorry, I still haven’t figured out how to pick up and insert quotes from other threads), milnewstbay asked a question I found very interesting:
“Is there reluctance on the part of some people in the system about having other troops regularly interacting with the wounded?”

It would be understandable if MCpl Franklin didn’t want to dredge up old hurts, but if he is open to discussing why he feels like so many people turned on him, I think it would be eye-opening.  I ask because I think there are so many more things than just legislation and policies that need to be changed if we are ever to treat wounded soldiers properly with regards to continuing employment-we’ll also have to change attitudes and address fears.

If he has any thoughts on this issue, I’d certainly appreciate hearing them.

Bren

 
TCBF said:
<snip>  I bet more promising careers have met an untimely end due to whining, misfit, spoiled, hillbilly-bred, moderately sociopathic spouses than alcohol and tertiary syphilis combined.

Holy shit, that sounds just like my ex-wife! She spent 17 years in the service while I did not (two years' Reserve service is all I can cop to).  :rofl:
 
While still serving I will not mention names about any bad service or issues that have confronted me over the last two years (wounded 2006).
But we always seem to circle around the ideas of hiring and the issues of disabled.  That is not the case.


Its simple.
Wounded means retained without complications without problems and the CF has issued orders to that effect.
This is not about hiring.
This is about doing the right thing.
We always over think life and problems when in reality and when touched by death we get it.

Wounded means retained.
Done.
 
This report, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail describes a device/system that may, eventually, offer significant benefits for wounded soldiers:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081107.whondagadget1107/BNStory/Technology/home
New Honda device helps you walk

YURI KAGEYAMA
Associated Press

November 7, 2008 at 5:55 AM EST

TOKYO — Imagine a bicycle seat connected by mechanical frames to a pair of shoes for an idea of how the new wearable assisted-walking gadget from Honda works.

The experimental device, unveiled Friday, is designed to support bodyweight, reduce stress on the knees and help people get up steps and stay in crouching positions.

Honda envisions the device being used by workers at auto or other factories. It showed a video of Honda employees wearing the device and bending to peer underneath vehicles on an assembly line.

Engineer Jun Ashihara also said the machine is useful for people standing in long lines and for people who run around to make deliveries.


“This should be as easy to use as a bicycle,” Mr. Ashihara said at Honda's Tokyo headquarters. “It reduces stress, and you should feel less tired.”

To wear it, you put the seat between your legs, put on the shoes and push the on button. Then just start walking around.

In a test-run for media, this reporter found it does take some getting used to. But I could sense how it supported my moves, pushing up on my bottom when I squatted and pushing at my soles to help lift my legs when I walked.

The system has a computer, motor, gears, battery and sensors embedded in it so it responds to a person's movements, according to Honda Motor Co.

Pricing and commercial product plans are still undecided. Japan's No. 2 auto maker will begin testing a prototype with its assembly line workers later this month for feedback.

The need for such mechanical help is expected to grow in Japan, which has one of the most rapidly aging societies in the world.

Other companies are also eyeing the potentially lucrative market of helping the weak and old get around. Japan is among the world's leading nations in robotics technology, not only for industrial use but also for entertainment and companionship.

Earlier this year, Japanese rival Toyota Motor Corp. showed a Segway-like ride it said was meant for old people.

Japanese robot company Cyberdyne has begun renting out in Japan a belted device called HAL, for “hybrid assistive limb,” that reads brain signals to help people move about with mechanical leg braces that strap to the legs.

Honda has shown a similar but simpler belted device. It has motors on the left and right, which hook up to frames that strap at the thighs, helping the walker maintain a proper stride.

That device, being tested at one Japanese facility, helps rehabilitation programs for the disabled, encouraging them to take steps, said Honda official Kiyoshi Aikawa.

Honda has been carrying out research into mobility for more than a decade, introducing the Asimo humanoid in 2000.

1107honda500big.jpg



 
A basic lower-body powered exoskeleton... Friggin' cool. I wonder what kind of battery endurance it has?

I could see a lot of people with partial use of their legs finding something like that a huge help in day to day life.
 
Sounds like a great tool to help seniors (and others) recover from things like hip surgery without losing too much mobility.

Hey, if it will encourage my dad to get up off the couch and go for a walk even when his knees are bothering him I'm all for it.
 
Strike said:
Sounds like a great tool to help seniors (and others) recover from things like hip surgery without losing too much mobility.

Hey, if it will encourage my dad to get up off the couch and go for a walk even when his knees are bothering him I'm all for it.

I don't think it will do anything to reduce joint pain or inflammation, so I don't think it will make much difference in that scenario.
 
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