Joining UK Armed Forces

[ReadyAyeReady]

"It's always better somewhere else.  The British Army don't have the same benefits that we have."

How so?  Could you elaborate?  I'm just curious to hear your take on that?  Not trying to pick a fight...

 

[Moobus]

Okay, thought I'd post the letter I got from MOD on January 18 2005 to help clarify this residency deal...interpret it anyway you like...

To take your application forward it is necessary that your background, character and integrity are established  To this end will you please provide the names and addresses of two referees, who can attest to these qualities.  Referees should be:

(a) and employer
(b) anbd academic institute
(c) a personal referee

In all cases referees should have known you well for at least the last 3 years.  A personal referee should be someone of some standing in the commuity etc etc etc.

First a question - do you know if it's okay to have two personal references (so long as they're of "some standing"), and none from school? The only profs I know have been in my life for under two years. Any opinions?

Now for my two cents. I'm currently studying in the UK, and when I asked online about joining as an officer I got this reply:

To apply for a commission in the British Army you will have to reside
in the UK for a period of up to 5 years prior to your application.
This time can vary depending on your personal circumstances.

To obviate the possibility of a candidate undertaking a period of
residency, only subsequently to fail either RCB Briefing or Main
Board, it has been agreed that a candidate may proceed with both the
RCB briefing and RCB Main Board at any time during that qualifying
period. However, on achieving an RCB Main Board pass, a candidate will
only be permitted to commence Officer training at RMAS after
completion of the stipulated period of residency. In all circumstances
it will remain the candidate's responsibility to obtain the necessary
visas to cover the required residency period prior to entering RMAS.

Because most soldier trades only require BC clearance there is no
requirement for a prior period of residency. Officer candidates who
wish to avail themselves of residency through service in the ranks are
to enlist and prove themselves to their Commanding Officers. Failing
this they will have to serve a minimum 4-year engagement. These
candidates should not undertake RCB Briefing and Main Board until the
final year of their residency period.

This was just last week. The policy seems to be changing every time I contact them. Incidentally, none of the recruiters I've spoken to in person know anything about Commonwealth applications, so I'm still trying to puzzle out the details, like what "up to 5 years" really means. (Incidentally, I was surprised at how indifferent the recruiters here are. I was much more impressed with the staff at CFRC Toronto.)

The interesting part for soldier (NCM) candidates is that there is no residency requirement. Lots of paperwork yes, but according to recruiters (note that recruiter != the people making decisions) they will take you on as soon as that's done. The jobs available are infantry, artillery, engineer, clerk, medic, and driver. Maybe one more I wasn't interested in - but I'm quite happy with what is available. Note that it might help if you're already in the country - I was asked how much time I had left on my visa, and apparently this made a difference as to my eligibility. Maybe just because the process takes so long, I dunno.

Finally, I must concur - London is an awesome place to visit, but it's not so great when you actually have to live there. I miss Toronto.

 

[Jascar]

Well that's really good to hear. Maybe those of you who applied as officers would consider being an NCM for a while?

Have you tried talking to the overseas recruiters? I found the same thing as you, regular recruiters didn't know much about overseas applications but the overseas recruiters do. I've seen a few different email addresses for them, but the one I can find now is: overseascell@recruitinggroup.mod.uk

Your first question is tricky. If you're in school you have to have a school reference but it has to cover 3 years......I probably shouldn't guess an answer. But I don't know what the reference requirements are for officers.

The jobs that you listed, are those the only ones available or just the ones you're interested in? I like the looks of those, they include my first couple of choices anyways.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Moobus]

I just found my notes - I only missed chef. Those seven jobs are it. I guess it's a little surprising armour isn't on there, but still some good options. Also keep in mind that he gave me this list after confirming that I had several months left on my visa - again, I can't say for certain if / why that mattered.

I am thinking about joining as a soldier for now, actually. But you can only make one application at a time, and I'd like to give the RCB a shot before I decide how (and where!) I'm going to spend the next couple of years.

Oh - and thanks for the e-mail address! When I asked about contacting the overseas cell, I was just told to send off my application and wait for a reply. =\

 

[Jascar]

Is that a working holidaymaker visa they're so interested in? Or just your passport?

 

[Pieman]

Is that a working holidaymaker visa they're so interested in? Or just your passport?

All they care about is your passport. I had a working holdaymaker permit and they never asked to see it.

Because most soldier trades only require BC clearance there is no
requirement for a prior period of residency. Officer candidates who
wish to avail themselves of residency through service in the ranks are
to enlist and prove themselves to their Commanding Officers. Failing
this they will have to serve a minimum 4-year engagement. These
candidates should not undertake RCB Briefing and Main Board until the
final year of their residency period.

It looks like that is the system they are finally settling on. That is not a bad option at all. Get some experience in the ranks, gives you time to adapt to British lifestyle and culture, then apply for Officer. Problem with that is you have to join at quite a young age, and how are you going to get the university credentials at the same time?

 

[readyfourzero]

Fellah

I am a British Infantry Soldier and whether you join the Army or the Royal Marines you'll be making a difference for Queen and Country (and Commomwealth) to stand with like minded men of the same age doing something worth while, and what a time to join, new changes, new equipment, a wealth of deployments (to get some trigger time).  I'm leaving the Army in the next 18 months and I am absolutely gutted about the fact leaving all those good mates behind that I have served with, the reason I am leaving - they have decided at the age of 38 I am getting too old to be a soldier - I think I am still in my prime!

So join! even if it's for the minimum contract (4 years) it will make you a better person and you may even find the selection process in the Canadian Army a bit smoother afterwards.  We have a Canadian in my Battalion, as well as a South African and god knows how many Fijians.  If you do decide to have a go you need to go to the Armed Forces Careers Office in the Strand in London, they are the only ones that can deal with Foreign Nationals.  ( I can say that, my brother is a Canadian National now and I call him Foreign all the time!)

Oh and don't let London put you off England, being a country boy I cannot stand the place, too many people in one place.  I could see about sponsoring if you want me to?

 

[Towards_the_gap]

ready 40 I echo your sentiments about joining the british army. what regiment are you in?

If you really want to be an officer, joining first as a soldier is a great idea. The only thing to watch is getting too stuck into the 'squaddie' mentality, which may hinder you at either RCB briefing or main board.

The army careers information office in wembley, NW london also handles commonwealth applicants, at least it did my application 4 years ago.

Just to reiterate, I've loved every minute I've been in. Sure the lifestyle is different, and it's a big decisiion to make, but the way I look at it, when I'm retired at 60 and have the grandkids over to visit, I'll have some interesting photos/plaques/presentation pieces on the wall to talk about. 'Been there/Done that' factor.

oh and pieman, as far as I know a university degree is helpful for joining as an officer, but it is not necessary. another canadian I know joined the AGC as a soldier, got put forward by his training staff in phase 1 training, passed RCB main board, and joined the engineers after sandhurst. He never even graduated out of high school! dropped out in grade 11. The biggest thing they are looking at is your performance at RCB.

 

[winchable]

but the way I look at it, when I'm retired at 60 and have the grandkids over to visit, I'll have some interesting photos/plaques/presentation pieces on the wall to talk about. 'Been there/Done that' factor.

That reminds me of one of my motivators to join when I was younger.

You can thank God that twenty years from now, when you're sitting around the fireside with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the war, you won't have to shift him to the other knee, cough, and say, "I shovelled **** in Louisiana."

Patton


Except instead of Louisiana it would be Halifax and instead of **** it would "computer data" or "books"

 

[readyfourzero]

Devon and Dorset, we are in 19 mech at catterick

 

[Pieman]

oh and pieman, as far as I know a university degree is helpful for joining as an officer, but it is not necessary. another canadian I know joined the AGC as a soldier, got put forward by his training staff in phase 1 training, passed RCB main board, and joined the engineers after sandhurst. He never even graduated out of high school! dropped out in grade 11. The biggest thing they are looking at is your performance at RCB.

Yes, thanks for correcting me, one does not nessecarly need a university degree. But the vast majority of Officers selected do have a univeristy degree. Your freind must be quite exceptional to do all that, that is quite impressive. At my RCB I met some people that I thought were simply amazing candiates and did not get in. It is a tough selection system, no doubt about that.

Ah, I wish I was younger so I could go back and try again, but that ship has sailed.

 

[mdh]

I'm leaving the Army in the next 18 months and I am absolutely gutted about the fact leaving all those good mates behind that I have served with, the reason I am leaving - they have decided at the age of 38 I am getting too old to be a soldier - I think I am still in my prime!

Wow, guys, do they really force you to retire that early in the British Army?

 

[winchable]

I read 22 years and yer a pensioner at 40 (providing you joined at 18ish)

Gonna play a little shuffleboard, get in a little canasta, you know get the white belt and white shoes and the yellow pants going on.

Freedom 40

 

[Block 1]

I am 45 (QMSI) and in the Canadian Army and still humping my rucksack, 2 hours of PT a day with a 8 km run plus. Just completed my tour in Kabul â Å“Bomb Disposalâ ?, In 2001 Sierra Leone with IMAT. I have 24 years service 6 tours, looking forward to another 10 years with another 2 or 3 tours. UUURRRRAAAA   

:soldier:

 

[jmacleod]

An interesting topic. While attending the Royal International Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford in July 1993
we just happened to be near the flight line, when an RAF C-130 taxied to a point just in front of us
and disgorged it's passengers. As one does at an event like the RIAT, we met several officers from
the Parachute Regiment, just in from Ulster - two Majors were in fact, Canadians, which surprised me
at the time. Later that evening we met them again at a Parachute Regiment "currie evening" and
talked about their careers in the British Army (which I must say, is impressive). Both were in the
Canadian Army, both infantry trained, got bored, single guys and went, as they said, "back to the
mother land". The Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT) is sponsored by the RAF Benevolent Fund
and is the largest and most impressive air show in the world - Canada needs participation in the
2005 event - all our NATO and other allies will be there, plus a big, big input from Russia, but thus
far, only one BAE Hawk (actually owned by Bombardier) will be there. I can remember other RIATS
when Canadian particpation usually included over twenty aircraft, and they were - impressive. Regards
MacLeod

 

[mdh]

Gonna play a little shuffleboard, get in a little canasta, you know get the white belt and white shoes and the yellow pants going on.

Hey Che!

Forget it buddy - I'm already wearing that outfit and I'm not going to tolerate any copycats on my lawn bowling turf!  

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Yes, thanks for correcting me, one does not nessecarly need a university degree. But the vast majority of Officers selected do have a univeristy degree. Your freind must be quite exceptional to do all that, that is quite impressive. At my RCB I met some people that I thought were simply amazing candiates and did not get in. It is a tough selection system, no doubt about that.

Ah, I wish I was younger so I could go back and try again, but that ship has sailed.

Yes it certainly is a tough selection, had a go at it myself, but had too many soldier-like traits showing through, and got sent back to the shop floor. Getting absolutely hammered on the dinner night didn't help, nor did getting naked in the bar afterwards either. Would've been good fun had there been hot chicks there, but alas, just a fine selection of horsey-faced 'art history' grads. At least the wine was free.

Why did I fail again? oh well, more fun as a soldier anyways   ;D

it is an interesting selection process too. Some complete knobheads I know passed, when some sound, bright individuals with common sense and experience out the wazoo were shown the door and not invited back.

 

[winchable]

Wish I'd somehow gone to "Public" school then I'd waltz in on good looks and charm *Not*


"Daddy was...a banker...and he need a wastepaper basket"

 

[readyfourzero]

Yeah they kick us out in our prime.  You can serve on over 22 years but jobs are few and far between and I think you have to be a minimum of sergeant, there is an ageism debate going on at the moment and I think they may start letting us soon but not in combat arms.....so re-badge or get out!

 

[mdh]

there is an ageism debate going on at the moment and I think they may start letting us soon but not in combat arms

Readyfourzero,

Interesting stuff - is this debate going on just generally throughout the British Army or is it being studied by the MoD? I understand the desirability of maintaining a young demographic in the combat arms but what about guys who are fit who turn 39 or 40 and still want to serve and are still fully capable? I would think that there is a natural attrition rate anyway in the combat arms and that you would always have proportionally more 20-years old any way.   Why get rid of guys "in their prime" - assuming they can keep up? (I wonder what the Brits would make of our retirement policy?)

Anyway please keep us informed,

cheers, mdh