Jeffrey Deslisle-former RCN, convicted of spying

[Edward Campbell]

Sadly, people who work in very secure areas think that the normal security rules don't apply to them.

When I still served, many, many years ago, I learned that having a high security clearance does not mean one has a high IQ. I know, I had a very high security clearance.
 

 

[Maxadia]

I would also agree that removing the USB ports/ providing dumb terminals would be a good idea.  Otherwise, it's like leaving a secure area locked in a case where everyone could potentially have the key to the secure room....and we just TRUST them not to use one of those easily accessible keys.

 

[PJGary]

I'm sure this has already been said but HOLY CRAP did I find it funny how bad the Russians took this idiot for a ride.

I just pictured a bunch of people watching him in the security camera in his super secret hoody ballcap and sunglasses walking into the embassy, flashing his CF ID. All of them pause and then burst out laughing, "Eh! getta load 'a this f***ing guy over here!" (except in Russian). 

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Wow, I'm in total disbelief!

In my mind, this man committed a crime similar to mass murder because he's breached the security of an entire nation.

I have a few questions, if someone can please enlighten me -

a. Are CF Intelligence personnel (officers, NCM and civilians if there are any) polygraphed during the recruiting process, and subsequently afterwards on a periodic basis?

Unless they have changed the procedure in the last few years, you are not polygraphed at anytime when joining the CF Int Branch or at a later date. CSIS, on the other hand, I believe does.

As other posters have mentioned polygraphs are not 100% accurate and can give false readings, which is probably why their findings are not allowed in a court. In fact, there is a lot of evidence out there that puts polygraphs in the junk science category. as for their usefullness, both the CIA and FBI use polygraphs (CIA personnel are tested on a yearly basis) and they have had personnel who passed with flying colours only to discover they were spying for foreign agencies (if my memory serves me correctly, one, possibly two for Russia and one for Israel).

So, polygraph tests does not necessarily mean you are going to catch a spy and in any case, this guy became a spy after joining the Int Branch. There are much better ways of catching spies, for example, by keeping an eye on foreign embassies and members of hostile int agencies; monitoring your members for any marital problems or financial irregularities (e.g. unexplained deposits of cash), if they are associating with criminal elements, etc, to name just a couple of examples.

 

[cupper]

What I find frightening about this is how easily this could have continued, if either Delisle or his so-called handlers had even a little bit of common sense.

According to the news reports of the evidence presented, he was busted because a Canadian Customs agent was good at his/her job and realized that something just didn't seem right about his explanations for carrying a large sum of money, or the short duration of his trip to Brazil.

First, you would think that the handlers would at least realize that carrying that much cash over international borders would raise flags all over the place.

If they gave him pre-paid credit cards of $10,000 each, why the additional cash? No one would question the cards if you left them in your wallet, it would just look like another credit or gift card.

Why meet in Brazil? Unless he had planned a vacation trip there in the first place, it makes no sense and would only raise suspicions. At the very least either he or his handlers could have come up with a better story as to why he was only in country for a short period of time. Hell, if there was a need to meet outside the country, trip to Maine could easily have been a better option, easily explained as a short shopping or camping trip. And driving across the border would bring much less scrutiny than at an international arrivals area of an airport.

Sometimes I wonder about the quality of today's criminal or traitor person working for foreign powers  :facepalm:

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

What I find frightening about this is how easily this could have continued, if either Delisle or his so-called handlers had even a little bit of common sense.

According to the news reports of the evidence presented, he was busted because a Canadian Customs agent was good at his/her job and realized that something just didn't seem right about his explanations for carrying a large sum of money, or the short duration of his trip to Brazil.

First, you would think that the handlers would at least realize that carrying that much cash over international borders would raise flags all over the place.

If they gave him pre-paid credit cards of $10,000 each, why the additional cash? No one would question the cards if you left them in your wallet, it would just look like another credit or gift card.

Why meet in Brazil? Unless he had planned a vacation trip there in the first place, it makes no sense and would only raise suspicions. At the very least either he or his handlers could have come up with a better story as to why he was only in country for a short period of time. Hell, if there was a need to meet outside the country, trip to Maine could easily have been a better option, easily explained as a short shopping or camping trip. And driving across the border would bring much less scrutiny than at an international arrivals area of an airport.

Sometimes I wonder about the quality of today's criminal or traitor person working for foreign powers  :facepalm:

Ever think maybe the Russians wanted to get rid of him? 

 

[jollyjacktar]

Sometimes I wonder about the quality of today's criminal or traitor person working for foreign powers  :facepalm:

Oh, you can call him a traitor now.  He's plead guilty.  Named and shamed. 

 

[PJGary]

Ever think maybe the Russians wanted to get rid of him?

:+1:

You would think a country with a fairly extensive crop of experience in international espionage would think before setting up an almost comically elaborate meeting and giving him a ton of cash and then sending him right back through customs. I wonder if he even wrote the cash down on his customs declaration hahaha.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I think every CF candidate should be polygraphed.

What kind of questions should they be asked?

At the very least all regular force and officer candidates. But then again - this is just wishful thinking.

Why regular force only?

Reservists work in NDHQ, Dwyer Hill, etc..

 

[cupper]

:+1:

You would think a country with a fairly extensive crop of experience in international espionage would think before setting up an almost comically elaborate meeting and giving him a ton of cash and then sending him right back through customs. I wonder if he even wrote the cash down on his customs declaration hahaha.

Ever think maybe the Russians wanted to get rid of him?

There are much easier and cheaper ways of burning an asset, and less trackable as well.

 

[The Bread Guy]

There are much easier and cheaper ways of burning an asset, and less trackable as well.

My WAG is that any bureaucracy sometimes comes up a less-than-ideal way to do things - which are allowed to slide if the thing they're hoping to do gets done.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

First, you would think that the handlers would at least realize that carrying that much cash over international borders would raise flags all over the place.

If they gave him pre-paid credit cards of $10,000 each, why the additional cash? No one would question the cards if you left them in your wallet, it would just look like another credit or gift card.

You are absolutely right, carrying large sums of cash these days is sure to get the interest of Custom/security agencies.  Another possibility is that that's what he wanted from his handlers to continue working for the Russians. His handlers they may have thought that he would just sail through Customs with no problem. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't.

Why meet in Brazil? Unless he had planned a vacation trip there in the first place, it makes no sense and would only raise suspicions. At the very least either he or his handlers could have come up with a better story as to why he was only in country for a short period of time. Hell, if there was a need to meet outside the country, trip to Maine could easily have been a better option, easily explained as a short shopping or camping trip. And driving across the border would bring much less scrutiny than at an international arrivals area of an airport.

Remember, his Canadian handlers would have had very little chance to talk to him in-depth. Taking a trip to a foreign country would give his handlers that chance. They don't want to do it in a western country (especially a NATO country) because they all have pretty good counter-intelligence units. Therefore, no trip to Maine. A trip to a country like Brazil, where their CI capabilities may not be as robust as a western/NATO country. It would give the Russians a chance to gather more information on his motivations, his fears/strengths, any concerns he may have had, info on further contacts, priority info the Russians are interested, etc. It would also give the Russians a chance to determine whether he was the real thing and not a double agent.

I'm sure that over the next few days we will be hearing more details from Canadian and foreign CI experts.

 

[cupper]

Remember, his Canadian handlers would have had very little chance to talk to him in-depth. Taking a trip to a foreign country would give his handlers that chance. They don't want to do it in a western country (especially a NATO country) because they all have pretty good counter-intelligence units. Therefore, no trip to Maine. A trip to a country like Brazil, where their CI capabilities may not be as robust as a western/NATO country. It would give the Russians a chance to gather more information on his motivations, his fears/strengths, any concerns he may have had, info on further contacts, priority info the Russians are interested, etc. It would also give the Russians a chance to determine whether he was the real thing and not a double agent.

I thought about that too, and it's a very good argument.

I've read too many cold-war spy thrillers so perhaps I'm setting the bar too high.

Maybe I'll wait for the book to come out.

 

[Robert0288]

People are stupid and get complacent.  Last year around this time the US burned more than a dozen guys in Iran and Lebanon because their handler dropped the ball.

 

[Monsoon]

You are absolutely right, carrying large sums of cash these days is sure to get the interest of Custom/security agencies.  Another possibility is that that's what he wanted from his handlers to continue working for the Russians. His handlers they may have thought that he would just sail through Customs with no problem. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't.

Don't think for a minute his pull-over at Customs was a coincidence: they've got their guys and we've got ours. The Globe story mentions that the service actually had access to the email account he was using to swap the information for months before they arrested him. That suggests to me that someone on the other side was helping us out at some point, but I don't think it was because it was in their government's interest to do so. The shift to cash-and-carry does look like a set-up to me; if they don't like wire transfers into Canada, why not just deposit the money into a foreign account and give him a debit card with access to it?

 

[Journeyman]

I can't help but notice that in every thread where government operations and bureaucracies are involved -- CF recruiting, aircraft acquisition, veterans' payments -- it's a complete and utter goat rodeo. But if it's a set-up or conspiracy, damn those various agencies pull together in an amazing fashion.  :nod:

Me? I'm content to spectate as it plays out.  op:


Oh, and I suspect that large, repetitive draws on foreign bank holdings get noticed too, so the foreign account/debit card plan may not work quite so well either. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

I can't help but notice that in every thread where government operations and bureaucracies are involved -- CF recruiting, aircraft acquisition, veterans' payments -- it's a complete and utter goat rodeo. But if it's a set-up or conspiracy, damn those various agencies pull together in an amazing fashion.  :nod:

Milpoints inbound.....

 

[Good2Golf]

The Russians should have paid him in large shipments of forged Timmies Roll-up-the-Rim winning cups...then he could have slowly extracted large amounts of cash and prizes in a very Canadian way without any agency noticing.

Amatures...

 

[dapaterson]

The Russians should have paid him in large shipments of forged Timmies Roll-up-the-Rim winning cups...then he could have slowly extracted large amounts of cash and prizes in a very Canadian way without any agency noticing.

Amatures...

Is that a nice new car in your driveway, with a free cup of coffee in the cupholder, comrade?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The only silver lining in this sordid affair is that Canadian (oh no! Not us! Everybody likes us in the world!) are being reminded once again that espionage is still going on between countries even in this era of globalization and that we ARE a target. Ever vigilance is a cost we must continue to bear.

This said however, you could multiply the rules, regulations and systems to protect our secrets and it would ultimately always fail at some point: Counterespionage is a human task by definition and it involves trying to get into someone else's mind. No easy task. That is why the people counterspies watch are those with access, not everyone at large (which is why a large ongoing spying activity is to penetrate your equivalent agency in the other camp). I must therefore disagree with the suggestion that all CF officers be "polygraphed". First of all, as has been pointed out, it is far from fool proof; second, most of our people - including officers - do not have access to sensitive secrets (there are documents I had never been allowed to see until I became a ship's captain - and only the yeoman had seen them other than I); and third, but most important in my mind, unlike the shadowy world of mistrust that exist in the spy/counterspy world, we in the operation side of the military rely on TRUST and I'll be damned if I do anything to make any of my officer think for one second I don't trust them.

Someone mentioned he may have been burned. That is a definite possibility - and one potential reason for such turn is that the handling country wanted to affect that trust that must exist in the military. It would not be the first time. Another reason might also be to let us know that they now know what we know about them (think about it!). All of this, however is sheer speculation and we probably will never known for sure.

A small P.S. for those who raised the death penalty: It still exists in Canada, but only for one crime: High Treason, which is only for attempts on the life of the sovereign or a member of the Royal family.