Israel strikes Hard at Hamas In Gaza- Dec/ 27/ 2008

[tomahawk6]

IDF video of Op Cast Lead in Gaza. Notice the Tavor, they have only been issued to the Golani Brigade so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5TXvrl9CO4&feature=channel_page

 

[The Bread Guy]

Good one, T-6, drawing the eye to the IDF's public affairs YouTube page on the operation:
http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk

Also spotted this use of Twitter for updates by ISR:
http://twitter.com/IsraelConsulate

 

[CougarKing]

adding spice to the already complicated situation........ can someone take notice of Hugo...he's ranting again. :

Venezuela expels Israeli ambassador

(CNN) -- Venezuela expelled Israel's ambassador to the country Tuesday and accused Israel of attempting to carry out "genocide" against the Palestinian people.

"In this tragic and indignant hour, the people of Venezuela manifest their unconditional solidarity with the heroic Palestinian people, share in the sadness that overcomes thousands of families through the loss of their loved ones, and extends to them a hand by affirming that the government of Venezuela will not rest until it sees those responsible for these criminal atrocities severely punished," the Venezuelan foreign minister said in a statement read by an anchor on state television.

The statement added that the government "condemns strongly the flagrant violations of international law" by Israel and "denounces their planned utilization of state terrorism."

"For the above-mentioned reasons, the government of Venezuela has decided to expel the ambassador of Israel and some of the personnel of the Israeli Embassy in Venezuela," it added.

In a news conference broadcast by state-run Venezuelan television, President Hugo Chavez blasted the Israeli military.

"They are cowards," he said. "It's as though a boxing professional were to come here and challenge you to box. Well, how courageous! How courageous is the Israeli army!"

It said that Chavez "makes a fraternal call to the Jewish people throughout the world to oppose these criminal policies of the state of Israel that recall the worst pages of the history of the 20th century.

"With the genocide of the Palestinian people, the state of Israel will never be able to offer its people the perspective of a peace that is both necessary and long-lasting."

Mark Regev, a spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, was unswayed.

"I haven't heard the details yet, but you know the regime in Venezuela has been one of the few countries in the world that gives automatic support to the Iranian extremists, and it doesn't surprise me that they have affinity with groups like Hamas and Hezbollah," he told CNN.

He predicted that other countries would not follow suit, even in the Middle East.

"I think, even in the Muslim and Arab countries, there is a fair amount of understanding for what Israel has had to do here," he said.

 

[CBH99]

In my humble, personal opinion - I think the mainstream media here in North America has given Israel a free pass for the most part.  Perhaps the NA (North American) media reports a school bombed here & there, and maybe a few accidental civilian casualties - but for the most part I think the media here in North America has been relatively biased in favor of Israel.

Lets take a step back and look at the current situation somewhat objectively.  Someone who is more current or who has more knowledge of the history, please feel free to correct me...I stopped following the news about Israel/Gaza tensions about 10yrs ago.  (When I realized there was no effective or near solution in sight).

This latest violence comes at the end of a ceasefire, that Israel says was broken when Hamas fired rockets into Israeli residential neighbourhoods.  Israel absolutely has the right & obligation to protect its citizens - and military action against Hamas is an affective means in helping to prevent rocket attacks on Israeli citizens.

However, why does Hamas continually fire rockets into Israel??  Is it because they are a bunch of fanatics who care nothing for human life & are hellbent on doing nothing but terrorism??  Or is Israel at least somewhat responsible for the continued provocation??  (I know, I know...heaven forbid Israel is looked at in anything but a shining light.)

In the latest 'ceasefire' - Israel continued to build residential neighbourhoods in areas that are still being disputed.  The Palestinian people who were living there were forced to leave, and in their place Israeli settlements were continually built.  27 political & religious leaders were killed by Israeli forces, which resulted in several dozen civilian deaths.  (Killing a dangerous terrorist leader is all fine & dandy, but when dozens of civlians are killed due to the action it deminishes one's credibility.)  None of this seems to make the news at all - however when Hamas retaliates with a rocket or two, it makes front page news.

Now I don't want there to be any misconception about what I'm saying, I'm trying to look at this as objectively as possible.  I think its absolutely wrong when Hamas takes any action which harms Israeli citizens.  But when Palestinian civilians are killed in the retaliation, usually in much higher numbers - how can we continue to say that Israel is responding responsibly??

Yesterday, Israel bombed 2 UN schools that resulted in several dozen deaths.  Lets not forget it was only a year or two ago that a Canadian soldier was killed when Israel bombed a UN monitoring post.  And the hospital ship USS Liberty was bombed by Israeli fighter jets roughly 30yrs ago.  The point I'm trying to make is that Israel has been known in the past to kill innocent people.  And while I commend Israel for its attempts to protect its citizens, it is disheartening to see it do so by killing so many civilians in Gaza.

I understand that were are political reasons why Israel must continue to be supported, due to the fact it is one of the only politically stable & democratic countries in the region.  However, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice by continuing to turn a blind eye to Israel's at times irresponsible use of force.

**Please note, I'm not some pot smoking hippy.  I'm a currently serving member of the Canadian Forces, who also spent 6 months in Sudan doing private work for a documentary film.  I am not condemning Israel entirely, and do my best to stay impartial.  I just find it extremely disheartening when we're spoon-fed BS about the current conflict, and continue to view the conflict through the relatively biased eyes of western media.**

 

[armyvern]

In my humble, personal opinion - I think the mainstream media here in North America has given Israel a free pass for the most part.  Perhaps the NA (North American) media reports a school bombed here & there, and maybe a few accidental civilian casualties - but for the most part I think the media here in North America has been relatively biased in favor of Israel.

Lets take a step back and look at the current situation somewhat objectively.  Someone who is more current or who has more knowledge of the history, please feel free to correct me...I stopped following the news about Israel/Gaza tensions about 10yrs ago.  (When I realized there was no effective or near solution in sight).

This latest violence comes at the end of a ceasefire, that Israel says was broken when Hamas fired rockets into Israeli residential neighbourhoods.  Israel absolutely has the right & obligation to protect its citizens - and military action against Hamas is an affective means in helping to prevent rocket attacks on Israeli citizens.

However, why does Hamas continually fire rockets into Israel??  Is it because they are a bunch of fanatics who care nothing for human life & are hellbent on doing nothing but terrorism??  Or is Israel at least somewhat responsible for the continued provocation??  (I know, I know...heaven forbid Israel is looked at in anything but a shining light.)

In the latest 'ceasefire' - Israel continued to build residential neighbourhoods in areas that are still being disputed.  The Palestinian people who were living there were forced to leave, and in their place Israeli settlements were continually built.  27 political & religious leaders were killed by Israeli forces, which resulted in several dozen civilian deaths.  (Killing a dangerous terrorist leader is all fine & dandy, but when dozens of civlians are killed due to the action it deminishes one's credibility.)  None of this seems to make the news at all - however when Hamas retaliates with a rocket or two, it makes front page news.

Now I don't want there to be any misconception about what I'm saying, I'm trying to look at this as objectively as possible.  I think its absolutely wrong when Hamas takes any action which harms Israeli citizens.  But when Palestinian civilians are killed in the retaliation, usually in much higher numbers - how can we continue to say that Israel is responding responsibly??

Yesterday, Israel bombed 2 UN schools that resulted in several dozen deaths.  Lets not forget it was only a year or two ago that a Canadian soldier was killed when Israel bombed a UN monitoring post.  And the hospital ship USS Liberty was bombed by Israeli fighter jets roughly 30yrs ago.  The point I'm trying to make is that Israel has been known in the past to kill innocent people.  And while I commend Israel for its attempts to protect its citizens, it is disheartening to see it do so by killing so many civilians in Gaza.

I understand that were are political reasons why Israel must continue to be supported, due to the fact it is one of the only politically stable & democratic countries in the region.  However, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice by continuing to turn a blind eye to Israel's at times irresponsible use of force.

**Please note, I'm not some pot smoking hippy.  I'm a currently serving member of the Canadian Forces, who also spent 6 months in Sudan doing private work for a documentary film.  I am not condemning Israel entirely, and do my best to stay impartial.  I just find it extremely disheartening when we're spoon-fed BS about the current conflict, and continue to view the conflict through the relatively biased eyes of western media.**

You make some interesting points, but let's not lose sight of the situation regarding goings-on during the cease-fire either ... Israel continued to build settlements; meanwhile, back in the Gaza ... the Palenstinians (more-so Hamas as opposed to an entire group of peoples) continually utilize "cease-fires" as down-times meant simply to re-arm themselves via their underground tunnel network. Neither side is innocent in matters of any 'cease-fire' agreements.

As for the UN school incident --- reports are now saying that Hamas fire was originating from the school - if so, then Hamas itself turned this school into a bonified and legitimate military target (and, quite frankly if this turns out to be true I would be neither shocked nor surprised given prior incidents in contravention of Geneva conventions - transporting armed, uninjured Palenstianian combatants in UN marked ambulances for example [nicely caught on video during this latest unrest]).

That all being said, I do agree with you somewhat. The 'simple' North-Americanized media-friendly version of this very long struggle is somewhat tarnished.

I suppose if I took over my neighbours house and forced their entire family to live in what amounts to my hallway for decades upon end and erected checkpoints at each doorway in the hallway which I could "close" randomly on a whim to prevent them from getting to work, seeing family, getting out to buy groceries, or preventing their kids from getting to school, and closing off the tap to the fresh water supply eminating out of Mount Herman sometimes just for days, but sometimes for weeks on end ... should I really be surprised if one day the neighbour picked up a stone and threw it at me or reacted to the situation?

We created this. Both sides feel they can justify any actions they take in this decades old struggle. We created a homeland for the Israelis and in the act of doing so, we took away a homeland from another people.  Sad days indeed - and I'm very certain that absolutely nothing will improve until the international community that cretaed the historical groundwork for this situation adresses the Palenstinian question that they managed to overlook at the beginning of it all.

 

[FastEddy]

In my humble, personal opinion - I think the mainstream media here in North America has given Israel a free pass for the most part.  Perhaps the NA (North American) media reports a school bombed here & there, and maybe a few accidental civilian casualties - but for the most part I think the media here in North America has been relatively biased in favor of Israel.

Lets take a step back and look at the current situation somewhat objectively.  Someone who is more current or who has more knowledge of the history, please feel free to correct me...I stopped following the news about Israel/Gaza tensions about 10yrs ago.  (When I realized there was no effective or near solution in sight).

This latest violence comes at the end of a ceasefire, that Israel says was broken when Hamas fired rockets into Israeli residential neighbourhoods.  Israel absolutely has the right & obligation to protect its citizens - and military action against Hamas is an affective means in helping to prevent rocket attacks on Israeli citizens.

However, why does Hamas continually fire rockets into Israel??  Is it because they are a bunch of fanatics who care nothing for human life & are hellbent on doing nothing but terrorism??  Or is Israel at least somewhat responsible for the continued provocation??  (I know, I know...heaven forbid Israel is looked at in anything but a shining light.)

In the latest 'ceasefire' - Israel continued to build residential neighbourhoods in areas that are still being disputed.  The Palestinian people who were living there were forced to leave, and in their place Israeli settlements were continually built.  27 political & religious leaders were killed by Israeli forces, which resulted in several dozen civilian deaths.  (Killing a dangerous terrorist leader is all fine & dandy, but when dozens of civlians are killed due to the action it deminishes one's credibility.)  None of this seems to make the news at all - however when Hamas retaliates with a rocket or two, it makes front page news.

Now I don't want there to be any misconception about what I'm saying, I'm trying to look at this as objectively as possible.  I think its absolutely wrong when Hamas takes any action which harms Israeli citizens.  But when Palestinian civilians are killed in the retaliation, usually in much higher numbers - how can we continue to say that Israel is responding responsibly??

Yesterday, Israel bombed 2 UN schools that resulted in several dozen deaths.  Lets not forget it was only a year or two ago that a Canadian soldier was killed when Israel bombed a UN monitoring post.  And the hospital ship USS Liberty was bombed by Israeli fighter jets roughly 30yrs ago.  The point I'm trying to make is that Israel has been known in the past to kill innocent people.  And while I commend Israel for its attempts to protect its citizens, it is disheartening to see it do so by killing so many civilians in Gaza.

I understand that were are political reasons why Israel must continue to be supported, due to the fact it is one of the only politically stable & democratic countries in the region.  However, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice by continuing to turn a blind eye to Israel's at times irresponsible use of force.

**Please note, I'm not some pot smoking hippy.  I'm a currently serving member of the Canadian Forces, who also spent 6 months in Sudan doing private work for a documentary film.  I am not condemning Israel entirely, and do my best to stay impartial.  I just find it extremely disheartening when we're spoon-fed BS about the current conflict, and continue to view the conflict through the relatively biased eyes of western media.**

"CBH99: Correct me if I'm wrong, You are a member of a Reserve Unit and as such you have not been Deployed in a active Theater of Operations. That your work in the Sudan was of a purely Civilian and Private Nature.

You claim that the North American Media is glossing over the extent or the severity of the Israeli attacks on the Hamas resulting in considerable civilian causalities, ultimately to the extent that they are BIAS.

Then I do not know what TV News Media Networks I'm watching, as mine are flooded with nothing but Screaming, Heaven Beseeching, Black Burke Clad Women, Anguished Stricken Men Carrying Limp Lifeless Bodies of Children, Scores of Panic Stricken People dashing about seaking refuge and Ambulances screaming up and down.

As for not commenting on your other observations I apologize, as at present I am hamstrung under threat of Banishment for commenting on controversial subjects which are deemed inflammatory to readers or members.

Cheers.

 

[the 48th regulator]

As for not commenting on your other observations I apologize, as at present I am hamstrung under threat of Banishment for commenting on controversial subjects which are deemed inflammatory to readers or members.

Cheers.

No...No.

No one has "Hamstrung" you Eddy,

We have guidlines here, and if you can not abide by them, well you are "Hamstringing" yourself.  Here let me help you to find these guidelines.....

Tone and Content on Army.ca

Milnet.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ


More can be found here as well

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/board,9.0.html

dileas

tess

milnet.ca staff

 

[Shec]

...And the hospital ship USS Liberty was bombed by Israeli fighter jets roughly 30yrs ago...

The Liberty was a hospital ship?  In actual fact it was gathering electronic intelligence hence the classification AGTR:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/60/6005.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_(AGTR-5)

 

[Kilo_302]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

Interesting article regarding the situation in Gaza from an ex-IDF member.

 

[Shec]

And now Hezbollah is getting into the act.  From my buddy:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Operation “Cast Lead” Day 13.

I woke up this morning a little later than usual, seems that those miles I put on yesterday walking around Tel Aviv taking pictures took its toll on me.
Coffee. Dog walk……  News playing in the background.  Wait something different coming over, the news readers voice has gone up a pitch or two, and he is showing a bit more excitement,   Blurred head still not hearing everything he is saying,,,, WHAT” the coffee is clearing the mud out of the neural pathways,,, CRAP! Katyusha rockets hit northern Israel!  OH BOY HERE WE GO!
Phone call to Army daughter, she is just getting the news herself...  she says everything is cool; I’ll accept that from my personal expert on the subject of the IDF for the time being.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167307373&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Attacks from the north, (Lebanon)  from the allies of Hamas, them fun loving  mushroom heads at Hezbollah have sent us a message of 3 Katyusha rockets into the coastal town of Nahariya, a lovely border town/city (that all depends on your view of it in my mind)  a couple of wounded and a lot of noise that they might have been expecting, (Hezbollah has been rattling the bars of their cage in that monkey house called Lebanon since before we moved on their brothers in Gaza)
So what does this mean for us over here?
Well it means that we were right in calling out extra reservists and sending them north to protect the border for one thing. And it also means that we are now going to have to absorb folks from the northern areas down here in the center of the country if this thing goes RED.!
Now as I’m typing this 2 more rockets came in from the north, and the stuff flying out of Gaza is at about 5,
Looks like I’m just going to stay in Kfar Saba today and not head out like planned…. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So much for the efficacy of the UN in case anybody was wondering why Israel has no faith in it.

 

[tourza]

And now Hezbollah is getting into the act.  From my buddy:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Operation “Cast Lead” Day 13.

I woke up this morning a little later than usual, seems that those miles I put on yesterday walking around Tel Aviv taking pictures took its toll on me.
Coffee. Dog walk……  News playing in the background.  Wait something different coming over, the news readers voice has gone up a pitch or two, and he is showing a bit more excitement,   Blurred head still not hearing everything he is saying,,,, WHAT” the coffee is clearing the mud out of the neural pathways,,, CRAP! Katyusha rockets hit northern Israel!  OH BOY HERE WE GO!
Phone call to Army daughter, she is just getting the news herself...  she says everything is cool; I’ll accept that from my personal expert on the subject of the IDF for the time being.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167307373&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Attacks from the north, (Lebanon)  from the allies of Hamas, them fun loving  mushroom heads at Hezbollah have sent us a message of 3 Katyusha rockets into the coastal town of Nahariya, a lovely border town/city (that all depends on your view of it in my mind)  a couple of wounded and a lot of noise that they might have been expecting, (Hezbollah has been rattling the bars of their cage in that monkey house called Lebanon since before we moved on their brothers in Gaza)
So what does this mean for us over here?
Well it means that we were right in calling out extra reservists and sending them north to protect the border for one thing. And it also means that we are now going to have to absorb folks from the northern areas down here in the center of the country if this thing goes RED.!
Now as I’m typing this 2 more rockets came in from the north, and the stuff flying out of Gaza is at about 5,
Looks like I’m just going to stay in Kfar Saba today and not head out like planned…. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So much for the efficacy of the UN in case anybody was wondering why Israel has no faith in it.

From the Dailystar:

Lebanese Information Minister Tarek Mitri told AFP that Hizbullah, which is represented in the government, had said it was not involved in the rocket barrage.
Unidentified Israeli military sources said that they thought Palestinian militants rather than Hizbullah were involved. An earlier report of a second salvo of rockets fired into Israel proved to have been premature, with Israeli sources saying a warning siren had malfunctioned.


And from the CBC:

Both Israeli and Lebanese officials have said they don't believe the attack was launched by Hezbollah.


And, finally, more proof that the IDF genuinely cares for the welfare of innocent Palestinian civilians:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7817926.stm

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1053877.html


Regards.

 

[Kilo_302]

About 700 Palestinian and 11 Israeli lives are said to have been lost since the offensive began 12 days ago.

This is an  excerpt from the BBC article posted above. With these numbers, how can anyone think that Hamas is the aggressor in this scenario?  Israel broke the ceasefire in November by killing six Hamas officials, and that Israel broke the terms of the agreement by continuing the blockade of Gaza. These are indisputable facts, regardless of what anyone thinks about the overall conflict and its historical causes. While some may view it as such, this post is not "pro-Hamas" nor is it "anti-Israel"; targeting civilians is disgusting no matter who does it. But with over 200 Palestinian children killed, callous disregard for civilian life can be the equivalent. I wonder what other nation could bomb densely populated urban areas killing hundreds of innocents and yet escape international condemnation? Could Turkey do this to the Kurds? Could China do this to the Tibetans? It boggles the mind that in the past few weeks Palestinians are being denied even a basic recognition of victimhood from most Western media outlets.

 

[Shec]

Why are there so few Israeli casualties in comparison with the Palestinian death toll?  It's because Israel's first priority is the safety of its citizens, which is why there are shelters and warning systems in Israeli towns.   If Hamas can dig tunnels, it can certainly build shelters. Instead, it prefers to use women and children as human shields while its leaders rush into hiding.

 

[dapaterson]

Were Israel to display "callous disregard for human life" the Palestinian casualty numbers would be several orders of magnitude greater.  Israel is not targetting civilians.  They are targetting valid, legitimate military targets that Hamas deliberately palces within urban areas, forcing residents of Gaza to becoem unwilling hman shields.

Hamas could have peace at any time; they choose not to.  So be it.

 

[Kilo_302]

Why there are so few Israeli casualties in comparison with the Palestinian death toll?  It's because Israel's first priority is the safety of its citizens, which is why there are shelters and warning systems in Israeli towns.   If Hamas can dig tunnels, it can certainly build shelters. Instead, it prefers to use women and children as human shields while its leaders rush into hiding.

How could Hamas provide an early warning system against Israeli arty and LGBs? Gaza has no resources or economy to speak of, aside from whatever the UN can ship in. I agree with you that some hardline Hamas members might consider it advantageous when Palestinian civilians die in hopes of drawing the attention of the world community, but you cannot absolve Israel of responsibility for the ordnance it drops.  The "conflict of equals"  in this case does not exist. Israel is a proper nation, with a military, and total support from the world's sole remaining super power. Gaza is roughly half the size of Toronto, with 1.5 million people and almost no infrastructure.

I would also argue that similar to Hamas, the Israeli government's main concern IS NOT the safety of it's citizens. Embarking on operations such as this can only prolong conflict, and ensure further retaliation. It hasn't been confirmed yet whether or not the latest rockets were from Lebanon, but at this point, one wouldn't be surprised. Hardliners on both sides are to blame for the ongoing hostilities.

Hamas could have peace at any time; they choose not to.  So be it.

I refer you to my post above. Hamas kept its end of the bargain in the latest ceasefire, Israel did not. Hamas indicated in November that it was willing to extend the ceasefire (during which Israel was still blockading the Gaza Strip, against the ceasefire conditions), and Israel responded by killing 6 Hamas officials. We don't even have to examine the last 50 years of history here, the last 2 months alone prove that Israel is not genuinely interested in peace.

 

[Shec]

"No resources or economy to speak of"  No wonder.  They hadn’t had one in years but once Israel took control of the strip Israelis poured in to trade with the people of the strip! Why? It was Tax Free! My former kibbutz used to buy furniture and electronics there and they in turn used to come to the kibbutz and purchase cattle and other things,.  But then they shot themselves in the foot. The First Intifada.  Whoops,  where are the shoppers? They went elsewhere!  Where are the teachers? Your terrorist thugs either closed the schools or/and or killed teacher…

 

[armyvern]

I would also argue that similar to Hamas, the Israeli government's main concern IS NOT the safety of it's citizens.

Wow. Never actually been there have you?

Try being a white red-headed, freckly-faced girl with a napsack that you sit down on a chair & then walk 5 feet to place your order in a MacDonalds leaving the bag "unattended" in Eilat (well outside the Golan, the West bank or the Gaza) ... you'll have IDF or other security all over you in 15.2 seconds flat. I can certainly assure you that security of their citizens IS so their prioirty despite the skin-colour of 'suspicious' person or package; but they've kind of been forced to react this way towards security haven't they? Every time they let it down, some other "martyr" joins the cause of exploding themselves amongst the innocents (that'd be women & kids of Israel enjoying a simple pizza lunch or an evening at the Disco) who happened to have chosen the wrong venue to try to live their lives that fateful day.

A different concept being that these martyrs "target" those populations and non-military targets - all with the aim of instilling "terror." That's the big difference between the two.

Gaza: Roughly 1.4 million people crammed into 151 square kilometeres ... civilian casualty ratio (700) (war sucks) seems to be a whole lot lower than it was during Western bombing campaigns over Germany circa the 40s no?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Regarding:

About 700 Palestinian and 11 Israeli lives are said to have been lost since the offensive began 12 days ago.

let's also remember the source of the information can sometimes..... skew?... such numbers as well.

For example, in December 2008, the Taliban claimed responsibility for (at least) around 70 Canadians killed in Afghanistan on English-language statements, whereas the CF says nine died in December.

Just sayin'....

 

[armyvern]

I refer you to my post above. Hamas kept its end of the bargain in the latest ceasefire, Israel did not. Hamas indicated in November that it was willing to extend the ceasefire (during which Israel was still blockading the Gaza Strip, against the ceasefire conditions), and Israel responded by killing 6 Hamas officials. We don't even have to examine the last 50 years of history here, the last 2 months alone prove that Israel is not genuinely interested in peace.

Hamas kept up it's end of the last ceasefire? How? By continuing throughout to smuggle in weapons via the tunnel network that they were supposed to cease? By firing rockets into Negev a mere 4 days after the last cease-fire agreement began (24 June 2008) (amongst other rocket attacks during this period)? Gimme a break. At least be honest with your statements about breachs of cease-fire; Hamas certainly has breached it from the outset - ergo the Israeli's justifying their own continuance of the blockade. It's a two-way street.

 

[Bo]

Robert Fisk: Why do they hate the West so much, we will ask

So once again, Israel has opened the gates of hell to the Palestinians. Forty civilian refugees dead in a United Nations school, three more in another. Not bad for a night's work in Gaza by the army that believes in "purity of arms". But why should we be surprised?

Have we forgotten the 17,500 dead – almost all civilians, most of them children and women – in Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon; the 1,700 Palestinian civilian dead in the Sabra-Chatila massacre; the 1996 Qana massacre of 106 Lebanese civilian refugees, more than half of them children, at a UN base; the massacre of the Marwahin refugees who were ordered from their homes by the Israelis in 2006 then slaughtered by an Israeli helicopter crew; the 1,000 dead of that same 2006 bombardment and Lebanese invasion, almost all of them civilians?

What is amazing is that so many Western leaders, so many presidents and prime ministers and, I fear, so many editors and journalists, bought the old lie; that Israelis take such great care to avoid civilian casualties. "Israel makes every possible effort to avoid civilian casualties," yet another Israeli ambassador said only hours before the Gaza massacre. And every president and prime minister who repeated this mendacity as an excuse to avoid a ceasefire has the blood of last night's butchery on their hands. Had George Bush had the courage to demand an immediate ceasefire 48 hours earlier, those 40 civilians, the old and the women and children, would be alive.

What happened was not just shameful. It was a disgrace. Would war crime be too strong a description? For that is what we would call this atrocity if it had been committed by Hamas. So a war crime, I'm afraid, it was. After covering so many mass murders by the armies of the Middle East – by Syrian troops, by Iraqi troops, by Iranian troops, by Israeli troops – I suppose cynicism should be my reaction. But Israel claims it is fighting our war against "international terror". The Israelis claim they are fighting in Gaza for us, for our Western ideals, for our security, for our safety, by our standards. And so we are also complicit in the savagery now being visited upon Gaza.

I've reported the excuses the Israeli army has served up in the past for these outrages. Since they may well be reheated in the coming hours, here are some of them: that the Palestinians killed their own refugees, that the Palestinians dug up bodies from cemeteries and planted them in the ruins, that ultimately the Palestinians are to blame because they supported an armed faction, or because armed Palestinians deliberately used the innocent refugees as cover.

The Sabra and Chatila massacre was committed by Israel's right-wing Lebanese Phalangist allies while Israeli troops, as Israel's own commission of inquiry revealed, watched for 48 hours and did nothing. When Israel was blamed, Menachem Begin's government accused the world of a blood libel. After Israeli artillery had fired shells into the UN base at Qana in 1996, the Israelis claimed that Hizbollah gunmen were also sheltering in the base. It was a lie. The more than 1,000 dead of 2006 – a war started when Hizbollah captured two Israeli soldiers on the border – were simply dismissed as the responsibility of the Hizbollah. Israel claimed the bodies of children killed in a second Qana massacre may have been taken from a graveyard. It was another lie. The Marwahin massacre was never excused. The people of the village were ordered to flee, obeyed Israeli orders and were then attacked by an Israeli gunship. The refugees took their children and stood them around the truck in which they were travelling so that Israeli pilots would see they were innocents. Then the Israeli helicopter mowed them down at close range. Only two survived, by playing dead. Israel didn't even apologise.

Twelve years earlier, another Israeli helicopter attacked an ambulance carrying civilians from a neighbouring village – again after they were ordered to leave by Israel – and killed three children and two women. The Israelis claimed that a Hizbollah fighter was in the ambulance. It was untrue. I covered all these atrocities, I investigated them all, talked to the survivors. So did a number of my colleagues. Our fate, of course, was that most slanderous of libels: we were accused of being anti-Semitic.

And I write the following without the slightest doubt: we'll hear all these scandalous fabrications again. We'll have the Hamas-to-blame lie – heaven knows, there is enough to blame them for without adding this crime – and we may well have the bodies-from-the-cemetery lie and we'll almost certainly have the Hamas-was-in-the-UN-school lie and we will very definitely have the anti-Semitism lie. And our leaders will huff and puff and remind the world that Hamas originally broke the ceasefire. It didn't. Israel broke it, first on 4 November when its bombardment killed six Palestinians in Gaza and again on 17 November when another bombardment killed four more Palestinians.

Yes, Israelis deserve security. Twenty Israelis dead in 10 years around Gaza is a grim figure indeed. But 600 Palestinians dead in just over a week, thousands over the years since 1948 – when the Israeli massacre at Deir Yassin helped to kick-start the flight of Palestinians from that part of Palestine that was to become Israel – is on a quite different scale. This recalls not a normal Middle East bloodletting but an atrocity on the level of the Balkan wars of the 1990s. And of course, when an Arab bestirs himself with unrestrained fury and takes out his incendiary, blind anger on the West, we will say it has nothing to do with us. Why do they hate us, we will ask? But let us not say we do not know the answer.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html