Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)

[KevinB]

No, but pretty much any offense not involving actual immediate injury may not be wise to try to enforce in the moment.



Yeah, but if you’re gonna go violent on public order enforcement, you’d better have what you need in place.

Not going violent, simply enforcing the law of the land, if THEY go violent, then an appropriate amount of force may be used to detain them, and arrest as needed.

An event like this would be run by a critical incident commander, who also likely had given specific direction about thresholds for arrest or other enforcement action in order to have a firm grip on what’s happening big picture.

Or didn't want to upset the 'oppressed'

I agree that what we saw here was all kinds of wrong. I just don’t think these officers, in this situation, were in a good place to try to take enforcement action given the totality of the situation. There are lots of ways this could have gotten worse from a simple spark like that. I hope that for future protests, police posture is ramped up so that they can act more decisively.

Agreed, but in Canada you guys are pretty much the only ones with guns, so when push comes to shove - the guy with the gun wins
Thought I am not sure if your UoF allow for crowds to be considered a lethal threat as disparity of force. I guess I just have zero tolerance for terrorists and their supporters, and I wouldn't shed a tear if a bunch of them got gunned down.

 

[brihard]

Not going violent, simply enforcing the law of the land, if THEY go violent, then an appropriate amount of force may be used to detain them, and arrest as needed.

Again, the decision made by the individual officers who were, at that point, essentially isolated and surrounded, is based on THEIR risk assessment. They had a way better sense of the whole thing than you or I do watching on a screen.

Or didn't want to upset the 'oppressed'

Agreed, but in Canada you guys are pretty much the only ones with guns, so when push comes to shove - the guy with the gun wins
Thought I am not sure if your UoF allow for crowds to be considered a lethal threat as disparity of force. I guess I just have zero tolerance for terrorists and their supporters, and I wouldn't shed a tear if a bunch of them got gunned down.

No, the Criminal Code doesn’t allow us to shoot into a crowd. A perception of death or grievous bodily harm has to be specific and articulable. If it gets to the point where you’re shooting into a crowd, you’ve already lost. As we see in the video, it’s likely the officers there knew backup was making its way and was just a couple minutes out. Which is both not a lot of time, and an eternity. Which one of those depends on what’s going on.

 

[KevinB]

Again, the decision made my the individual officers who were, at that point, essentially isolated and surrounded, is based on THEIR risk assessment. They had a way better sense of the whole thing than you or I do watching on a screen.

Ack -

No, the Criminal Code doesn’t allow us to shoot into a crowd. A perception of death or grievous bodily harm has to be specific and articulable. If it gets to the point where you’re shooting into a crowd, you’ve already lost. As we see in the video, it’s likely the officers there knew backup was making its way and was just a couple minutes out. Which is both not a lot of time, and an eternity. Which one of those depends on what’s going on.

Pendant: Shooting specific threat individuals in a crowd isn't shooting into a crowd.

I mean I'd prefer a minigun for just shooting into a crowd...

 

[Good2Golf]

What are you talking about? I’m clearly not siding with the conduct. I’m taking about purely tactical decisions about whether, in the moment, something can be enforced sufficiently effectively and sufficiently safely for police and the public for the juice to be worth the squeeze, in the bigger picture of what’s going on overall. You’re well outside your arcs on this one.

The mall is private property. Pretty much everyone there is committing, at a minimum, criminal code mischief and provincial trespass, and some are committing crim code causing a disturbance and utter threats. And, it is also a protest, albeit one that, IMHO, is unlawful because of its infliction on private property.

But you were saying it wasn’t worth the police’s effort to do anything…to sit my ‘boiling frog’ comment…we just accept nothing being done until one day, it crosses the/somebody’s line.

My commentary is more op/Strat in nature. Ack your tactical lens. Isn’t the wait for Strat-level dosomethingitis going to make it much harder to address….tactical through Strat/pol?

 

[brihard]

But you were saying it wasn’t worth the police’s effort to do anything…to sit my ‘boiling frog’ comment…we just accept nothing being done until one day, it crosses the/somebody’s line.

My commentary is more op/Strat in nature. Ack your tactical lens. Isn’t the wait for Strat-level dosomethingitis going to make it much harder to address….tactical through Strat/pol?

I did not. I said “in the moment”. That’s a very important qualifier. Sometimes investigating to prosecute later is viable. Sometimes you alert others to get eyes on the suspect and to catch them exiting the area immediately after. These tactics may not always be viable or succesful. They’re other options, other tools in the toolbox. The actions in the moment still depend on what’s feasible and, to an extent, can be done sufficiently safely both for police AND the public. If you can avoid getting a few isolated officers potentially swarmed (and potentially injured/disarmed), that’s preferable.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Pro-palestine crowd is obnoxious. Unleash the BC RCMP, CPS or OPS on em.

 

[mariomike]

Toronto Police Association had this to say,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1736817655125094710

 

[brihard]

Toronto Police Association had this to say,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1736817655125094710

A victim’s wishes or cooperation is not necessary to pursue charges, though it can inform whether it’s deemed worth the effort, or if there’s enough evidence. In this case, the officers’ observations and the video would likely be enough if the suspect were positively IDed. The TPS union is getting defensive here. This is one of the less convincing angles they could have taken, IMO.

 

[mariomike]

- bike cops can be a subtle but useful way to move people in with a bit more PPE without it being an obvious escalation.

So can horses at an outdoor venue, such as a BBQ joint.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1736831502300696891

From what I saw, horses seemed to have a calming effect on angry people.

 

[brihard]

So can horses at an outdoor venue, such as a BBQ joint.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1736831502300696891

From what I saw, horses seemed to have a calming effect on angry people.

ANY situation involving horses makes you really think about and commit to your decision.

 

[Remius]

ANY situation involving horses makes you really think about and commit to your decision.

Poor Roberta Paulson found out the hard way. God rest her soul. Twice.

 

[Furniture]

Boiling frog?

Is this protesting, or is it denying others’ right to freely pass without threatening acts that, for the moment, seem explainable as ‘just words’…

Let's be realistic here, they were merely threatening to kill a guy, not set up a bouncy castle. No need to get violent or freeze accounts...

 

[Jarnhamar]

Poor Roberta Paulson found out the hard way. God rest her soul. Twice.

She shouldn't have thrown that bike at the officer.

 

[Quirky]

Let's be realistic here, they were merely threatening to kill a guy, not set up a bouncy castle. No need to get violent or freeze accounts...

Can you bring horses into a mall?

 

[brihard]

Can you bring horses into a mall?

Probably; but, like waking them on packed ice, probably the floor surface would be less than idea for their employment and could see them slip. Getting them up to the second floor would be a trick too.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Probably; but, like waking them on packed ice, probably the floor surface would be less than idea for their employment and could see them slip. Getting them up to the second floor would be a trick too.

Man….I would pay very good money to see a horse riding an escalator…

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Boiling frog?

Is this protesting, or is it denying others’ right to freely pass without threatening acts that, for the moment, seem explainable as ‘just words’…

Islam enforces edicts via thuggery, they generate anger in their flock at Friday prayers and protests and demand everyone to be submissive to them. they will be violent to anyone they can and get away with it. The cops need to show very clearly where the peaceful protest boundaries are and be willing to enforce them.

 

[brihard]

Man….I would pay very good money to see a horse riding an escalator…

Because of this, YouTube just left me profoundly disappointed.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Because of this, YouTube just left me profoundly disappointed.

I know, right?

 

[Quirky]

Probably; but, like waking them on packed ice, probably the floor surface would be less than idea for their employment and could see them slip. Getting them up to the second floor would be a trick too.