Islam and Western Society

[Jed]

SIU were still looking into that into the late 80's maybe early 90's. IIRC

They sure didn't think it was a thing to joke about to the south of us in the early ninrties.

 

[The Bread Guy]

They sure didn't think it was a thing to joke about to the south of us in the early ninrties.

Still the case in some parts south of us.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The regression of Islam can be most recently traced to the influence of the Gulf states and oil money to fund mosque building and the installation of radical Whabbis/Safi Imams. I would say that this really took off in the late 70's. Interestingly I looked carefully at my wife's family photo albums in Malaysia. Islam arrived there in the 16th century more or less and ended up with a very relaxed Malay take on the matter. the photo's from before the 70's should little or no Islamic influence, the ones through the 70-mid 80's showed mostly Malay style clothes for women (colourful sarongs with bared shoulders), but a number of headscraves, in the 90's the Hijab started to be more common. Now almost every Malay woman wears an Hijab. Non-Muslims are being pressured to conforms to "Islamic norms"    http://www.expatgo.com/my/2015/07/03/6-controversial-dress-code-incidents-in-malaysia/

another troubling incident http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/04/23/cross-incident-highlights-subjective-sedition-act/

and some more http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2014/eap/238310.htm

My wife see her country being slowly boiled like a frog and fears deeply for her non-Muslim friends and for the future of her nieces and nephews.

 

[CougarKing]

The more secular/moderate leaders gaining more influence to push this through in the Saudi kingdom?

CNN

Saudi Arabia strips religious police of arrest powers


(CNN)Saudi Arabia has stripped its religious police of the power to arrest when carrying out duties and enforcing Islamic law.

Experts say the clarification on the kingdom's religious police's abilities to arrest will affect women the most.
Under the new directives approved on Tuesday, members of the force -- formally known as the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice -- can no longer detain people they identify as breaking the kingdom's strict standards of moral conduct.
Now, the so-called Haia force must report individuals' "misbehaviors" to the police or drug police, the official Saudi Press Agency reports.
(...SNIPPED)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Maybe a sign of internal power struggles? I guess you need to see who "owns" the religious police and that may indicate who is a rising and falling star. 

 

[CougarKing]

French comedian who glorifies terrorism not welcome in Montreal:

CBC

Dieudonné isn't welcome in Montreal, Mayor Denis Coderre says
French comedian has several convictions for violating hate speech laws in Europe

By Benjamin Shingler, CBC News Posted: Apr 22, 2016 7:31 AM ET

Dieudonné M'bala M'bala, the controversial French comedian who routinely makes jokes about gas chambers and has publicly denied the Holocaust, isn't welcome in Montreal, Mayor Denis Coderre says.

The controversial French comedian, who performs as Dieudonné, is booked to play 10 shows in the city next month.

On Twitter on Friday, Coderre accused Dieudonné of inciting social tension and racial hatred in Europe.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[jollyjacktar]

Shouldn't let him into the country,  nevermind Montreal.

 

[AbdullahD]

Shouldn't let him into the country,  nevermind Montreal.

Amen to that, you have to be a special kind of pig to joke about gas chambers and make light of terrorism.

People like this disgust me, no matter who they are.

Abdullah

 

[CougarKing]

London's version of Calgary's Mayor Naheed Nenshi?

London's new mayor is the complete opposite of Donald Trump, or so the mainstream media says.

New York Times

Sadiq Khan vs. Donald Trump
[Roger Cohen]

Roger Cohen MAY 9, 2016

The most important political event of recent weeks was not the emergence of Donald J. Trump as the presumptive presidential nominee of the Republican Party but the election of Sadiq Khan, the Muslim son of a London bus driver, as mayor of London.

Trump has not won any kind of political office yet, but Khan, the Labour Party candidate, crushed Zac Goldsmith, a Conservative, to take charge of one of the world’s great cities, a vibrant metropolis where every tongue is heard. In his victory, a triumph over the slurs that tried to tie him to Islamist extremism, Khan stood up for openness against isolationism, integration against confrontation, opportunity for all against racism and misogyny. He was the anti-Trump.


(...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

A controversy from last week:

CBC

Arabic writing on police cruisers in London, Ont., angers Americans
'People are just screaming at me,' Const. Sandasha Bough says

By Alex Brockman, CBC News Posted: Jun 03, 2016 12:00 PM ET Last Updated: Jun 03, 2016 2:49 PM ET

Police in London, Ont., are being forced to defend decals on patrol cars that have the word "police" written in a number of different languages, including Arabic, which is the one that has angered some people.

Although the decals have been on London Police Service cruisers for at least nine years, a recent Facebook post about Arabic writing on patrol car has resulted in many angry phone calls from Americans upset over the apparent "Islamization of Canada." The post was picked up by a conservative American blog site that also published the phone number for London police.

"Headquarters has been getting calls like crazy," Const. Sandasha Bough said. "Some of them are being patched up to me and people are just screaming at me."

(...SNIPPED)

 

[George Wallace]

This has matter has been posted in various forums.  Police forces in Canada have been doing similar acts for years.  It was done when Vietnamese refugees arrived.  It has been done when large groups of refugees have arrived so that they can recognize, what many of us seem to recognize as an "international" word like the "STOP" sign, "POLICE" (in its' various spelling).  A totally overblown case of ignorance on the part of a few.

 

[CougarKing]

A rapist gets no jail time:

AFP via Yahoo News

Qatar hands suspended sentence to Dutch woman who made rape complaint
    By: Agence France-Presse
    June 13, 2016 5:15 PM

    DOHA, Qatar - A Doha court on Monday convicted a Dutch woman of adultery and handed her a one-year suspended sentence after she reported being raped while on holiday in Qatar.

    The 22-year-old woman, known only as Laura and who was not in court, was also fined 3,000 Qatari riyals ($800/710 euros) and will be deported once she pays the fine, court officials said.

    The male defendant, also not in court, was given a sentence of 100 lashes for adultery and 40 lashes for consuming alcohol.

    He will not serve any time in jail. The Dutch ambassador to Qatar Yvette Burghgraef-van Eechoud, who was present in court, told reporters the embassy would help Laura leave Qatar.

    (...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

Meanwhile, all the way down under, Pauline Hanson returns:

Reuters

Australia's Muslim migrants on edge as race relations falter with rise of the right
By: Reuters
July 30, 2016 9:15 AM

Race relations in Australia have deteriorated so badly that some community leaders fear violence will erupt in a political vacuum where the new government, elected with a bare majority, must rely on the support of parties that have fomented the discord.

The potential for violence after a bitter election campaign, which featured calls for a ban on Muslim immigration, is palpable for people like Afghan-born Muhammad Taqi Haidari.

Haidari, from Afghanistan’s Shi’ite Muslim Hazara minority, no longer tells people his name is Muhammad, preferring to use Taqi.

“When there is a problem like in Paris and now in Nice they hear the name Muhammad. They include me as one of those Muhammads,” Haidari, who lives in Sydney’s less affluent western suburbs, told Reuters.

Australia, a staunch US ally with troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, has been spared the mass violence that has become commonplace among other US allies, particularly in Europe.

In barely more than a month, scores of people have been killed in Paris, in smaller French towns such as Nice, and across Germany, many of them in attacks claimed by the militant Islamic State group.

Machete-wielding attackers and suicide bombers have also struck with devastating effect in Bangladesh and Kabul.

In Australia, once-fringe parties such as Pauline Hanson’s One Nation, which first gained international notoriety in the late 1990s, have exploited the fear such attacks have generated by saying that Muslim immigration must be stopped.

However, community leaders such as Stepan Kerkyasharian, a veteran former head of a government anti-discrimination board, fear their rhetoric will also generate retaliatory acts against Muslim migrants.

Potential for violence

That is an even more pressing concern after the narrow win secured by Australia’s conservative coalition in July 2 elections, which also gave a stronger voice to fringe political players like Hanson.

“The intensity and feeling has been there for some time but it has now made it into the public discourse. It would be a serious mistake to underestimate the potential for violence,” Kerkyasharian told Reuters.

“Unfortunately there has been a reluctance on the part of political leadership to engage people in rational debate and discussion on this matter,” he said.

Race relations have threatened to erupt in the barely four weeks since Hanson secured her return to the Australian parliament. Her public appearances have attracted protesters and supporters in numbers rarely seen in Australian politics.

Outwardly easy-going and peaceful, Australia has a troubling race relations record. The White Australia Policy, which was only dismantled in the late 1960s, favored European migrants over non-whites. Australia’s Aborigines were administered under flora and fauna laws until then and remain far behind the rest of the population in literacy, health and economic standards.

There have also been racial flashpoints before. In 2005, riots broke out in the Sydney beachside suburb of Cronulla between white residents and Lebanese from other suburbs, gaining international notoriety.

Duncan Lewis, director-general of the Australian Security Intelligence Organization, told a parliamentary committee in May that as many 59 Australians had been killed fighting with Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

So it is not entirely surprising that many ordinary Australians, and even morning TV show presenters, have come out in favor of Hanson’s Muslim immigration ban, stirring fierce debate on prime-time television and on social media.

Her unexpectedly influential position after an indecisive election -- Hanson and a small handful of others will likely form a bloc whose vote will determine the passage or rejection of legislation -- mean that mainstream politicians ignore her at their peril.

Foreshadowing that newfound influence, Hanson released a video message on Monday after meeting Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, telling her supporters they had discussed several policies and that he was “prepared to listen to me.”

(...SNIPPED)

 

[a_majoor]

French comedian who glorifies terrorism not welcome in Montreal:

CBC

While I certainly understand that the man is quite the piece of work, there is no way that a politician should EVER say or do anything to violate the right of free speech.

Canadians are heirs to an 800 year old tradition of free speech (ignorant or uneducated people who thing free speech is "an American concept" really need to get out of their holes and do some research), so arbitrarily attacking someone or using the powers of the State to define what can and cannot be said goes against the most fundamental right in a liberal democracy.

There are only four classes of speech which are not protected: Libel, Slander, Sedation and Treasonous speech. If the comic is not transgressing against these, then he should be free to say whatever he wants, just like the rest of us. If his speech can be arbitrarily shut down if he is not in violation of the four classes of unprotected speech, then we are all at risk of having our free speech curtailed arbitrarily as well. The use of nebulous and undefinable criteria like "hate" or "offence" simply means that anyone can twist things to bring a complaint against anyone else, for any reason whatsoever. Quite frankly, hate crime laws and "speech codes" with undefined and undefinable conditions like "giving offence" need to be dropped immediately before they damage the foundations of liberal democracy and free and open society even further than they already are.

If you don't like his speech, don't go to hear it. If you think what he is saying is bad, then use your powers of free speech to say what is good, make better arguments and (in this case) funnier jokes.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

You think glorifying terrorism should be protected speech?

So sitting in a room in Montreal glorifying the Paris attacks should be tolerated knowing full well it is inciting the same behaviour amongst te audience?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You think glorifying terrorism should be protected speech?

So sitting in a room in Montreal glorifying the Paris attacks should be tolerated knowing full well it is inciting the same behaviour amongst te audience?

So, when do we stop saying "You can't say that." Should we arrest people that fist pumped when bin Laden was killed? Or is it ok because it was our side that won? If you're willing to have your speech curtailed, we might be able to stop our enemies from doing it too, but it has to play to both sides equally.

 

[Edward Campbell]

So, when do we stop saying "You can't say that." Should we arrest people that fist pumped when bin Laden was killed? Or is it ok because it was our side that won? If you're willing to have your speech curtailed, we might be able to stop our enemies from doing it too, but it has to play to both sides equally.

Exactly! My support for free speech only matters when it is something I don't want to hear ... as long as you are saying things that don't offend me, that don't make me angry, that don't challenge my core beliefs then freedom of speech is an academic exercise, at best. But when you says things that enrage me, when you say things that make me fume and sputter then I neeed to get on my high horse and defend your right to offend me and my ideals and ideas.

Of course there are some limits, and inciting violence against others is one of them, but we have laws to deal with that.

 

[YZT580]

But is it necessary to allow someone from outside our country to come in and spout off with language and topics that quite frankly offend the majority of Canadians all in the guise of entertainment or free speech?  That seems to be more like self-abuse than it is the maintenance of free speech standards. 

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

So, when do we stop saying "You can't say that." Should we arrest people that fist pumped when bin Laden was killed? Or is it ok because it was our side that won? If you're willing to have your speech curtailed, we might be able to stop our enemies from doing it too, but it has to play to both sides equally.

It was okay because our side won.

Our civilization is far too timid to recognize the difference between the good guys and bad guys and call them out as such.

We already have a hate speech law, which merely needs to be expanded.

 

[Journeyman]

We already have a hate speech law, which merely needs to be expanded.

In what way... and why?



By the way, Canada has several "hate speech laws," which have provisions addressing different circumstances.