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Iran Super Thread- Merged

We have been at war with Iran since 1979. We have captured senior IRG officers inside Iraq who remain in US custody. Iranian IFP and other weapons are smuggled into Iraq which are used on US and coalition forces.The US has demanded that Iranian meddling in Iraq stop,it hasnt. An Iranian regime with nuclear weapons wont happen on Bush's watch. The nuclear facilities wont be the only targets of an air campaign against the regime.As the Iranians are disliked there wont be much protest outside of Syria,Gaza and by our own Democrat Party. I am all for an air campaign that severely weakens the regime and besides the obvious nuclear facilities I would destroy their only oil refinery.If oil hit $400 a barrel the regime wouldnt be able to ship their oil and their economy would collapse.
 
tomahawk6 said:
.... I am all for an air campaign that severely weakens the regime and besides the obvious nuclear facilities I would destroy their only oil refinery.If oil hit $400 a barrel the regime wouldnt be able to ship their oil and their economy would collapse.

I agree with the idea but I would prefer that a deniable "accident" were arranged at the refinery by the locals.
 
The Iranian regime is nothing but bluffs. They know the U.S will not attack them, so they go on and on about thier "military stength". I know many Iranian Canadians personally, they all say its own citizens would help get rid of the regime if there was an invasion. I just hope somthing is done to the government of Iran, they are the source of weapons and training to the terrorists of the middle east...
 
MedTechStudent said:

Yes I do look forward to Obama trying to play with the Iranians, they will run circles around, they have forgotten more about intrigue and international politics than he knows. Hell I am sure he will make Clinton look good.
 
Duke_The_Patriot said:
I know many Iranian Canadians personally, they all say its own citizens would help get rid of the regime if there was an invasion.

I also know many Canadians from Iran and they are scared to death at the prospect of any kind of U.S. attack against Iran. Not so much because they hate the U.S. but because they have family back there.
 
The US wont go to war with Iran, Bush won't risk it, he is saber rattling to show he still has power and can attack if he wants to, but with all the US Intelligence agencies now speaking out about their reports, that Iran gave up its nuclear weapon's research a while ago, Bush has no real reason to go to war with Iran. Unless they attack Israel.
 
adaminc said:
The US wont go to war with Iran, Bush won't risk it, he is saber rattling to show he still has power and can attack if he wants to, but with all the US Intelligence agencies now speaking out about their reports, that Iran gave up its nuclear weapon's research a while ago, Bush has no real reason to go to war with Iran. Unless they attack Israel.

I wasn't going to respond, but I had to.

Dear Mr adamic,

They aint sabre rattling mate, and if you think Iran is no longer in the prusuit of nuclear weapons or technology for such, may I suggest you move to California where the dope might be legalised (as you have posted elsewhere on here).

Sooner than later, one day when you flick on the radio or TV, you'll hear surgical strikes on their nuclear technology centres (and possibly other areas) will have happened.

Regards, and have a nice day.

Wes
 
Overwatch Downunder said:
I wasn't going to respond, but I had to.

Dear Mr adamic,

They aint sabre rattling mate, and if you think Iran is no longer in the prusuit of nuclear weapons or technology for such, may I suggest you move to California where the dope might be legalised (as you have posted elsewhere on here).

Sooner than later, one day when you flick on the radio or TV, you'll hear surgical strikes on their nuclear technology centres (and possibly other areas) will have happened.

Regards, and have a nice day.

Wes

There is no proof that they are currently in pursuit of nuclear weapons. The US Intelligence Committee released the NIE report saying that they stopped over 4 years ago (~2003), I believe that over anything Bush and his cronies have to say on the issue. Because we all know his track record when it comes to telling the truth about a nation he wants to attack.

I'm not doubting that they are pursuing nuclear technology, just that they are pursuing nuclear weapons. Which also isn't to say that some day in the future they won't, but at this moment and in the near future, I don't believe they are, and the US intelligence committee, as well as the Director of National Intelligence agrees, or that is to say I agree with them.

This is enough to say to Bush or more specifically Cheney, that NO you can't go to war with a nation that technically isn't a threat. Bush knew that they stopped back in December 2007, and Cheney knew in November! When Bush was told in 2007 that they stopped back in 2003, did he change his stance? No he didn't, he kept going on about how Iranian nuclear weapons program was a big threat to the US and to Israel. Sounds like he and Cheney running the same race they did when they pushed for the Iraq war.

Now, if Iran attacks Israel, that's a whole other can of worms, since the US has pledged to help Israel when they ask for it. But if the US bombs these Nuclear research centers, for no reason, all hell will break loose in the middle east, and I fear for the innocents in Iran who will get caught up in the messy aftermath of a nuclear ecological disaster.

I have a feeling that Iran would attack Israel if the US attacked Iran without provocation, then Israel might use the bomb.
 
adaminc said:
I believe that over anything Bush and his cronies have to say on the issue. Because we all know his track record when it comes to telling the truth about a nation he wants to attack.

Dear Sir,

Greetings from lovely Bribie Island here on the coast of the Coral Sea

It's obvious that you have an agenda of 'Bush' bashing and anti-US feelings.

On that note Sir, I think its in my best interest not to respond to your unrealistic view, as it would be a waste of band width, and what I beleive would be an exercise in futility.

Beleive what you wish. I hope you are right, but Iran's days are numbered for the advance of this technology, and as far as my thoughts are concerned, Iran with any nuclear technology is like a child in a dynamite factory with a pocket of bic lighters. The current regime is rotten and radicalised, to me that spells danger. One does not have to be a rocket scientist, or uni student for that matter to figure this out.

Have a good night, and enjoy your time on here.

EDITed for stupid spelling mistakes :D


 
adaminc said:
There is no proof that they are currently in pursuit of nuclear weapons. The US Intelligence Committee released the NIE report saying that they stopped over 4 years ago (~2003), I believe that over anything Bush and his cronies have to say on the issue. Because we all know his track record when it comes to telling the truth about a nation he wants to attack.

I'm not doubting that they are pursuing nuclear technology, just that they are pursuing nuclear weapons. Which also isn't to say that some day in the future they won't, but at this moment and in the near future, I don't believe they are, and the US intelligence committee, as well as the Director of National Intelligence agrees, or that is to say I agree with them.

This is enough to say to Bush or more specifically Cheney, that NO you can't go to war with a nation that technically isn't a threat. Bush knew that they stopped back in December 2007, and Cheney knew in November! When Bush was told in 2007 that they stopped back in 2003, did he change his stance? No he didn't, he kept going on about how Iranian nuclear weapons program was a big threat to the US and to Israel. Sounds like he and Cheney running the same race they did when they pushed for the Iraq war.

Now, if Iran attacks Israel, that's a whole other can of worms, since the US has pledged to help Israel when they ask for it. But if the US bombs these Nuclear research centers, for no reason, all hell will break loose in the middle east, and I fear for the innocents in Iran who will get caught up in the messy aftermath of a nuclear ecological disaster.

I have a feeling that Iran would attack Israel if the US attacked Iran without provocation, then Israel might use the bomb.

I agree, broadly, with your first two paragraphs, but the NIE has been wrong before.

I have no comment on your third paragraph.

The issue, I believe, is in your fourth paragraph. The first sentence is clear and correct. I have some doubts about the second sentence: as others have pointed out, many Middle Eastern regimes are likely to applaud (quietly) if Iran is damaged.

The issue, for me, is that, given the flaws in American intelligence and strategy, Israel might have a different, even contrary appreciation of the situation and may feel that a preemptive (even nuclear) strike is necessary and justified under international law. Then the level of America's participation (and Islamic reaction to it) becomes a complex issue.

I agree with your last sentence.
 
Just saw a picture of the Iranian leader in a factory with cascading centrifuges...  he looked very pleased with the situation.
 
Otto Fest said:
Just saw a picture of the Iranian leader in a factory with cascading centrifuges...  he looked very pleased with the situation.

Maybe adamnic would explain the purpose of these centrifuges, especially as there are some significant advances in nuclear technology that does not require weapon grade materials to produce power?
 
I too have seen photo's of Ahmadinejad standing around looking at the centrifuges, considering where Iran is getting their Nuclear technology from Russia, I wouldn't say that they are getting the best of the best when it comes to reactor technology.

However, I know that they have, and are going to be building, Light Water Reactors (VVR), built by Siemens AG, which uses regular water for moderation and cooling, they also require the fuel to be changed every 12 to 18 months. So maybe they need to process a lot of uranium for the current and future reactors, maybe generate a small stockpile of fuel. Sounds rational to me. These reactors are the cheapest to build and maintain, and are also not as efficient as other, more expensive, types of reactors.

You also have to remember that the Ayatollah, who is the Supreme Leader and has final say, doesn't want nuclear weapons, and has been quoted saying as much.
 
adaminc said:
You also have to remember that the Ayatollah, who is the Supreme Leader and has final say, doesn't want nuclear weapons, and has been quoted saying as much.

And a few months ago i swore i wouldn't drink again.........
 
So CDN Aviator, is there no way that Iran could sway your mind that they aren't trying to develop nuclear weapons? Should they take apart all the reactors, research facilities and centrifuges, and pledge to never delve into nuclear technology ever again, as long as terrorists, or the State of Israel exist?

Every country has the right to build whatever technology they want, as long as they aren't hurting anyone in the process, which is exactly what is happening in Iran right now, and the fear-mongering that the US and Israel are doing will only make the issue worse. I don't think the fact that Russia is providing most of this nuclear technology helps the issue, but it's better than Iran trying to do all this from scratch.

The US doesn't want Iran to get the bomb because of Israel and possible theft or just giving to, of terrorists, and I can see their dilemma, but until they have proof that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, they should just bud out.

While i'm talking about the middle east, I figured I should finally post my stance on Israel, albeit I was afraid to before because of possible backlash, but what the hell. I think that the US should drop Israel like a sack of soggy rocks, and say

"Since you are now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income equal to that of south korea or spain, we will be ceasing the ~3 billion dollars a year we give you. We will also be ceasing all the military assistance, unless you are directly under attack. Oh, and we are also canceling the guaranteed ~3 billion dollars (2002 dollars) worth of Oil that we said we would give you regardless of our own supplies, you must buy your own now. We will send humanitarian aid though, for use on the Palestinians in the occupied territories, and for any Israelis hurt by this feud between the IDF and Hamas, but not the illegal settlers, or anything else."
 
adaminc said:
So CDN Aviator, is there no way that Iran could sway your mind that they aren't trying to develop nuclear weapons?

Please, show me where i said that i beleived that they were.......

What i mean is that i am not willing to take the Ayathollah at his word that "he doesn't want nuclear weapons" simply because he said so or was quoted as such.

Remember, there was WMDs in Iraq.......GW was quoted as such
 
It's one thing for a politician to say this and it's another for Admiral Mullen, the current JCS, to say this. It makes me worry that the US could possibly not be able to sustain a new third front in Iran beyond initial air and naval strikes.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25515357/

On Iran, top military officer sounds like Obama
Joint Chiefs Chairman Mullen urges diplomacy, not use of force
By Tom Curry
National affairs writer
updated 2:05 p.m. PT, Thurs., July. 3, 2008
WASHINGTON - It could turn out to be one of the most significant comments of the 2008 campaign — but coming just ahead of a holiday weekend, it isn’t getting much notice.

Upon his return from a visit to Israel and Europe, the nation’s highest ranking military officer warned Wednesday that a military strike on Iran would be a very bad idea.

“This is a very unstable part of the world, and I don't need it to be more unstable,” said the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Michael Mullen.

He added pointedly, “we haven't had much of a dialogue with the Iranians for a long time,” seeming to imply that the Bush administration should be talking to the Iranian government.

Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama has said that if elected, he would begin talks with Iran, without any precondition.

The Bush administration has insisted that before talks can begin, Iran must cease its nuclear enrichment — a step toward building nuclear weapons.

Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain has said that his rival's willingness to hold direct talks, without preconditions, reveals "the depth of Sen. Obama's inexperience and reckless judgment.”

Adm. Mullen, much like Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke, is one of those powerful unelected officials whose words could, at times, have as much effect on the campaign as Obama and McCain themselves.

It’s unusual for a military officer, especially the nation’s highest ranking one, to warn in such explicit terms of potential military action and to so emphatically call for diplomacy.

“What struck me about the comments was that he called for dialogue with Iran in his preliminary statement, even before he was responding to (reporters’) questions,” said Jon Alterman, the director of the Middle East Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

Alterman pointed to Mullen’s opening statement in which he said, “I'm convinced a solution still lies in using other elements of national power to change Iranian behavior, including diplomatic, financial and international pressure. There is a need for better clarity, even dialogue at some level.”

Not ruling out use of military force
President Bush, McCain, and Obama, all say they would not rule out the use of military force to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons.

But Mullen appeared to be edging toward saying that military action, either by Israel or the United States, or both, would be catastrophic.

He also warned that the United States would be hard pressed to conduct operations against Iran, given the commitment of tens of thousands of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

“From the United States' perspective, the United States' military perspective, in particular, opening up a third front right now would be extremely stressful on us,” Mullen told reporters. “That doesn't mean we don't have capacity or reserve, but that would really be very challenging.”

And, he added, “The consequences of that (military action) sometimes are very difficult to predict.”

Mullen explained, “Just about every move in that part of the world is a high-risk move. And that's why I think it's so important that the international piece, the financial piece, the diplomatic piece, the economic piece be brought to bear with a level of intensity that resolves this.”

The Israeli air force staged a large-scale drill last month that some observers saw as a warning of a possible Israeli attack on Iran.

But Mullen assured reporters Wednesday that “the Israeli press reported fairly widely that…those exercises were planned and routine.”

In 1981, the Israeli air force destroyed the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq. The Israeli government believed Saddam Hussein's regime was planning to use the plant to make nuclear weapons in order to destroy Israel.

An attack on Iranian nuclear sites could cause the Iranian regime to attack shipping in the Strait of Hormuz, through which one-fifth of the world’s total daily oil demand is carried.

Oil prices hit a record high of nearly $146 a barrel on Thursday. As Americans drive during this July 4 vacation, one reason they're paying more than $4.50 a gallon in some parts of the country is the growing tension over Iran.

Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said in an interview with The Associated Press Wednesday that the United States and Israel would not risk such an attack.

“The Israeli government is facing a political breakdown within itself and within the region, so we do not foresee such a possibility for that regime to resort to such craziness," Mottaki said. “The United States, too, is not in a position where it can engage in, take another risk in the region.”

In Congress, some members have expressed their fear that the Bush administration might launch a unilateral attack on Iran.

But last year the House rejected, by a vote of 288 to 136, an amendment offered by Rep. Peter DeFazio, D- Ore., that would have prohibited funds being used to take military action against Iran without specific authorization from Congress — unless Iran had first attacked the United States.

© 2008 MSNBC Interactive
 
adaminc said:
So CDN Aviator, is there no way that Iran could sway your mind that they aren't trying to develop nuclear weapons? Should they take apart all the reactors, research facilities and centrifuges, and pledge to never delve into nuclear technology ever again, as long as terrorists, or the State of Israel exist?

Its pretty clear what Iran needs to do.  All that has been asked is that Iran put a halt to enriching uranium.  No one is asking for a total liquidation of their entire nuclear program.   It has even been proposed that Iran would be able to purchase enriched fuel from other states, provided it stops its current program. 
Other M.E countries such as Jordan are working on deals with the West/EU to begin a nuclear program that is fully transparent, this should serve as an example to Iran that the path they have chosen is not one anyone wants to follow.
Also, today should be a significant day for Iran in deciding which path to take.  Check the news today for a responce from the Iranians on the package offered by the EU.   

Updated-  Seems They have rejected the package.  They are not going to freeze enrichment, so now we go back to the "stick" I guess...
 
adaminc said:
I too have seen photo's of Ahmadinejad standing around looking at the centrifuges, considering where Iran is getting their Nuclear technology from Russia, I wouldn't say that they are getting the best of the best when it comes to reactor technology.

However, I know that they have, and are going to be building, Light Water Reactors (VVR), built by Siemens AG, which uses regular water for moderation and cooling, they also require the fuel to be changed every 12 to 18 months. So maybe they need to process a lot of uranium for the current and future reactors, maybe generate a small stockpile of fuel. Sounds rational to me. These reactors are the cheapest to build and maintain, and are also not as efficient as other, more expensive, types of reactors.

You also have to remember that the Ayatollah, who is the Supreme Leader and has final say, doesn't want nuclear weapons, and has been quoted saying as much.

Toshiba is building self contained reactors with a 20 year life that can be located near the power users reducing infrastructure, although new it shows there are many options to get weapon free nuke power. I fail to see any advantage Iran gains from it's current position on it's nuclear program unless it is developing weapons. As for the Ayatollah, it's entirely plausible that they have lied in order to buy time to produce their first weapon, and buying time seems to be their main goal at present.
 
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