Intelligence Officer / Operator

[Frankopolous]

Hey, do you mind telling me a bit about your qualifications ? I know they hardly hire anyone off the street but I was told there's a good chance I could be offered Int Ops soon as well. I only have high school education and a year of university and didn't really have any Int Ops related qualifications at all. I was told I scored a very competitive score but that alone doesn't seem like enough considering only 10-15 people are offered that position off the street per year.

Any information you can give me about your experience would be appreciated.

I have previous service in the naval reserve, I've worked closely with RCMP, OPP and CSIS, University of Toronto Criminal Psych / Criminal Justice certificates, Licensed private investigator, Level II security clearance prior to my application.

I believe only 6 were hired for the 2016 year I could be wrong though just what my career counsellor told me back during my interview. Keep it as a choice just have a fallback option incase it doesn't go through. Cheers!

 

[econ_kid]

I recently wrote my CFAT and scored well-enough to be offered Pilot, though my initial application was for Int Officer--for disclosure I have an Economics degree. Int Officer was closed. Int Operator was closed. I was encouraged to go for Pilot or Logistics Officer (due to demand), but my eyesight is so poor that I thought it would have been a waste of time (I have a lazy-eye and -8.00 prescription), and the recruiter told me Logistics wouldn't align with my interests.

After a lengthy conversation with a different recruiter, I was convinced that going for Communicator Research Operator was a good choice--it was also a proposed path to increase my probability of becoming an Int Officer or Int Operator down the road.

I took it, but now I am second guessing my decision. I know this decision to go the NCM route was borne out of the fact that Int was closed, but, would it have been better for me to simply wait until Int opened up again? Or to try again in a few years from within the Military?

Thanks for your input guys.

 

[PuckChaser]

If you don't like windows, fresh air, or being social, you picked a great trade.  ;D

 

[mkil]

As someone who has been exactly where you are, I feel like I can chime in on this.

I have a Master's degree, and I really wanted to be an officer when I was initially recruited. I was told that the officer trade I wanted was not available for DEO that year (which was kind of a lie... but I digress). Not being interested in any of the other officer routes that I was herded into, I decided to go the NCM route with hopes of getting a foot in the door and eventually moving into the officer trade I wanted.

I can tell you, with zero hesitation, that it is extremely difficult to make the jump from NCM to officer - especially something as competitive as Int Officer. There are only two programs to make the leap and the one that you would be involved with (SCP) is even more competitive. You would be up against other NCM's across the country and competing for literally one spot (if any). While I cannot sit here and tell you I outright regret being an NCM, I can tell you not a day went by that I didn't still want to move on. I had to work my ass off, and jump through many MANY hoops in order to commission. If you are already feeling like it might have been a mistake, you need to be really honest with yourself about what you want. Your education does not matter when you are a private, and you will be treated as if you are a completely empty vessel, void of all intelligence and knowledge until you master your new trade. The fact that you are already feeling like this, tells me that you should put the brakes on this one, because once you are in - it is for the long haul. The only thing worse than waiting is settling. Trust me on that.

Being a NCM is a valuable experience; however, if you will be miserable and thinking "I wish I had've waited" the whole time, it is not worth it.

 

[krimynal]

Going NCM prior to Officer might not be a bad choice as far as experience goes.  That way you will understand both side of the coin and the reality of both world.
It is 2 totally different world , but as stated above, if you already doubt the choice you made, don't continue tht route.  Call your recruiting center and tell them about your desire to go Officer even if the wait is longer.
It's better to wait 6 month to a year on something you really want than getting in on a job you will most likely regret and do it for 4-5 years and maybe even for the entire duration of your carreer.

Remember there is ABSOLUTELY no certainty that you will be able to commission once in the NCM world.  Would you do this for the next 25 years? if you doubt this , don't go with it.
If you tell yourself , this would be a great job , then keep the application and maybe one day you will be lucky and get to transfer Officer.

Joining the army just to "get a foot in" is one of the worst decision ever.  Pick a trade you really want to do, and take the time it needs to go that route.

 

[econ_kid]

Thank you for the responses gentlemen, this is some valuable insight.

My desire to be mentally stimulated in whatever occupation is my number one priority; I don't care as much about the title or respect as long as I am consistently being challenged (solving difficult problems). I initially decided to pursue INT because it seemed like a path that I was eligible for, but also a path that would also satisfy my craving for stimulation. Communicator Research Operator was pitched to me as an occupation that would accomplish this--is this true? I mean, I love doing things on the computer like solving coding problems, writing scripts, working with encryption, etc; but I am finding it difficult to get a true sense of what 'a day in the life of ______' would truly entail. This goes for INT Officer and INT Operator as well.

If I get bored I will hate my life, and I get bored when I am not being challenged. Reading, writing, researching, learning about anything related to complex systems (from language and programming to geopolitics and finance) are things that challenge me. A concrete example I can offer is, just for a fun project, I wrote a genetic algorithm (using principles of biology and evolution) which aims to write a specified sentence in English, beginning with a random string of characters. However, my formal background is Economics and Finance, which is obviously totally unrelated to programming and biology. So, this example is a signal of the type of person I am--I will come up with stupid random challenges for myself just to keep my gears turning.

I guess the simplest question I can ask is.... Will I get bored?

*Edit:

I am also getting conflicting information about how easy it would be to switch. The recruiters here said that my education being in NCM will be a huge asset and I would move up quick; it would also enable me to apply for INT from WITHIN the Military a lot easier than trying to be a guy off the street. I am simply trying to increase my probability of getting into INT Officer or INT Operator while still being challenged with my chosen path. Will my decision to go NCM Communicator Research Operator increase the probability of getting into INT down the road, considering I would have experience and already be a member of the Forces?

 

[krimynal]

remember 1 thing , people at the recruiting center do have Quotas to fill .... which in the end , makes them a bit biased and might not be the total truth.
When I joined the reserve they told me it was the best thing to do and as soon as I wanted I couldnt switch to reg Force and work full time.  That it would take like 3 weeks for my file to be processed.
When I applied for a transfert , 6 months later I got an email saying it would take up to 7 years for me to transfer. 

That's my personnal story and YMMV but , at the end of the day , pick something you wouldn't mind doing 25 years straight in.  If it's INT , go INT. simple as that

 

[Andraste]

Good afternoon Econ-Kid,

I am certain that either occupation INT OP or Comm Research will keep you mentally challenged on a daily basis but in different ways.  INT OP is more related to intelligence gathering, researching and collating that information up the chain to populate the global CAF intelligence picture (bare bones description) whereas Communication Research is more akin to analyzing high frequency radio signals, managing secure computer nets and IT security.  If you have not already done so, I would check out the two occupations on the CAF Recruiting website:

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/communicatorresearchoperator-29
http://www.forces.ca/en/job/intelligenceoperator-9

WRT to Communication Research increasing your chances of transferring to INT OP down the road . . . what you are talking about is a Voluntary Occupation Transfer once you are in the CAF and that option will not be available to you for 48 months after you enroll.  The CAF needs to get it's pound of flesh out of you for training you in your first MOSID.  The program is competitive in that you compete with other CAF members and if selected, you will get your new MOSID.  Comm Research definitely has transferable skills which are akin to INT OP so it does provide a bit of a leg up for OT but that is just one part of the assessment process when the decision is rendered. 

Regarding INT O, if you decide to join as an NCM and spend some time getting experience you could apply for the Special Commissioning Program (SCP) once you are trained in your NCM MOSID. What this means is since you have a degree, you apply for commissioning to an officer occupation.  Again this is a competitive program and various factors come into play such as education (i.e., is your degree acceptable or ideal for the MOSID of choice), demonstrated leadership, performance in the CAF, Commanding Officer's recommdation

If you truly feel INT OP or INT O is your chosen path then you could also just mark time until they open up again and apply.

Will you ever get bored?  Goodness, no job is 24 hours of excitement every day so yes, you can expect to get bored now and then.  Will you be challenged is probably a better question and yes, you will be challenged.

Good luck

Andraste

 

[Flyingismything]

Hi,

I am currently a university student and am interested in joining as an Intelligence Operator. As I return to full time studies in mid-September, I wanted to know what is the best way for me to join for the summer (full time) and go on part time throughout the school year. I am looking into reserves and am unsure as to how much time I would actually be serving.

I will be contacting a recruiter soon but wanted to get a bit more direction prior to doing so.

Thank you!

 

[Frankopolous]

direct your INTOP questions here: http://army.ca/forums/threads/12858.200

 

[Loachman]

Please note that this is the "Ask a CAF Recruiter" forum. Nobody should be responding except for Recruiters, DS, and a very small number of other designated people.

I have removed one post, but left Frankopolous' post as it is helpful.

Expect this thread to be merged with the one at Frankopolous' link soon.

 

[Flyingismything]

Hi,

I am currently a university student and am interested in joining the army as an Intelligence Operator. As I return to full time studies in mid-September, I wanted to know what is the best way for me to join for the summer (full time) and go on part time throughout the school year. I am looking into reserves and am unsure as to how much time I would actually be serving and want to make the most out of my time this summer.

I will be contacting a recruiter soon but wanted to get a general idea prior to doing so.

Thank you!

 

[mba2011]

Hi,

I am currently a university student and am interested in joining the army as an Intelligence Operator. As I return to full time studies in mid-September, I wanted to know what is the best way for me to join for the summer (full time) and go on part time throughout the school year. I am looking into reserves and am unsure as to how much time I would actually be serving and want to make the most out of my time this summer.

I will be contacting a recruiter soon but wanted to get a general idea prior to doing so.

Thank you!

Flyingismything,

Reserves is the best way to work full time over the summer and part time through the school year. As far as I know, the only way to continue your studies and be reg force is to put a hold on university while you are undergoing training and then resume your studies on a part time, (1 or 2 courses in the evening type thing).

If you joined the reserves asap, in terms of paid work, you would likely get a few weeks, possibly most of the summer. That said, that depends on the unit/space on course, which only a Unit Recruiter could really answer.

Cheers!

 

[Loachman]

I am currently a university student and am interested in joining the army as an Intelligence Operator. As I return to full time studies in mid-September, I wanted to know what is the best way for me to join for the summer (full time) and go on part time throughout the school year. I am looking into reserves and am unsure as to how much time I would actually be serving and want to make the most out of my time this summer.

Where are you? There may or may not be any Reserve Int positions wherever that is.

Look at the Component Transfer (CT) thread(s) regarding moving from Reserve Force to Regular Force as well.

 

[Frankopolous]

Anyone able to give me some quick basic info about CFSMI in Kingston? ie: living quarters, base itself.

Im getting posted there next week as i finish my BMQ on Thursday; i've asked around at the school and everyone has been telling me it's nice, but im getting mixed feedback that it's going to be Green Sector all over again...just looking for a quick tid bit about it thanks.

 

[mariomike]

Anyone able to give me some quick basic info about CFSMI in Kingston? ie:  living quarters, base itself.

CFB Kingston - Posted In - Merged Thread 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/29166.175
8 pages.

 

[kpar]

I'm a 21-year-old female student who is currently studying to get a BSc in Earth and Space Science and I hope to join the CAF as an Intelligence Officer. From what I've heard and researched, employment opportunities for direct entry are slim in this field and a transfer is often recommended. Is that true? Also, I'm a shy and reserved person...would this be an impediment for this specific field? The major reason I'm interested in this field is because I'm very much invested and interested in world affairs, politics, geopolitical and economic relationships (pretty much any kind of research). It's a hobby more than anything. I also excel at report and essay writing. Is there anything I can do to improve my chances of getting hired (i.e. Masters? Certification?). Any word of advice or direction is greatly appreciated.   

 

[Andraste]

Hello,

DEO is open for Intelligence Officer but the positions are limited so you could potentially be in a tight competition.  I note that your current degree program would be "acceptable" which means that those applicants for DEO with an "ideal" degree program would score a bit higher on Person-Job fit when decisions are rendered.  Now bear in mind this is not the only factor which determines an offers as your CFAT testing, other testing and interview works into the scoring equation.  So you still stand a chance.

WRT being shy and reserved well . . . an INT O will most definitely be in a position where she/he has to brief people (large and small audiences) and this could be briefing very senior people in the Command structure.  So if you are comfortable interacting with people in a dynamic situations this should not prove a problem.  However, if you are nervous interacting with people or shy about briefing large groups of people you might struggle.  The CAF in general is a very communal environment and while you don't require a Type A personality to survive, you do need a certain amount of comfort being around others.  All this say reserved is fine so long as you can interact and function in your job.

Cheers

Andraste

 

[Loachman]

There are threads on this Site wherein Int, DEO, personality, and many other pertinent topics have been discussed, kpar. If your research has not yet included those, I'd suggest that you explore them, and other existing threads. You'll likely find answers to questions that have not even occurred to you yet.

 

[mariomike]

Saw this discussion in Ask a CAF Recruiter. Adding to "I want to be Int" Mega-thread for reference,

http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123082/post-1436120/topicseen.html#new
I'm a 21-year-old female student who is currently studying to get a BSc in Earth and Space Science and I hope to join the CAF as an Intelligence Officer.

WRT being shy and reserved well . . . an INT O will most definitely be in a position where she/he has to brief people (large and small audiences) and this could be briefing very senior people in the Command structure.