Intelligence Officer / Operator

[Lumber]

NAVRES IntO = NAVRES Staff Officer...

That's my take on the duties of an IntO after 3 years working for NAVRES.

Actually, now that I think about it, all officers at NRDs = staff officers.

Really, they should all be PAOs given it's one of the primary purposes of NAVRES.

 

[Jackal2018]

NAVRES IntO = NAVRES Staff Officer...

That's my take on the duties of an IntO after 3 years working for NAVRES.

Actually, now that I think about it, all officers at NRDs = staff officers.

Really, they should all be PAOs given it's one of the primary purposes of NAVRES.

In your experience, what would be the day-to-day of an IntO in the NAVRES?

 

[Lumber]

There is no "day to day" duties of IntOs in NAVRES.

There are no "Intelligence Officer" positions in the Naval Reserve.

First, let be clear on what I mean when I say, “the Naval Reserve”. I don’t mean everyone who is a naval “reservist”, I mean the specific collection of units and organizations that make up the Naval Reserve. This includes the 24 Naval Reserve Divisions (NRDs), the Headquarters, and to a lesser extent, Naval Fleet School Quebec (which technically a part of a Reg Force organization (NPTG), but for all intents and purposes, it’s a Reserve unit).

Second, let me be clear on what I mean by “Intelligence Officer Position”. There are a few positions within the naval reserve that specifically call for an Intelligence Officer, such as the Intelligence Section’s divisional officer position at NRDs, the IntO training officer(s) at Fleet School, etc. However, there are no positions (yet) within the Naval Reserve where Naval Reserve Intelligence Officers will be asked to perform actual intelligence gathering and analysis, and production of intelligence products.

So, if you are an IntO working within the Naval Reserve (full time or part time), all you will be doing is administration, and lots of it, most having nothing to do with Intelligence. You’ll be a divisional officer responsible for junior officers or junior sailors (IntOps), and you’ll take on whatever projects your department head wants to send your way. You could be overseeing the construction/implementation of a new security network at your building, performing a research project on the acquisition of radars for the unit, developing a training plan for the Intelligence section, assisting the OpsO in designing whole unit/regional training exercises, etc…

Every now and then (6 weekends throughout the year) there will be Naval Reserve “Intelligence Officer Training Weekends” across the country that you can sign up for. I have no idea what happens at these weekends, but I hear there’s lots of beer and shenanigans. I believe the most “advanced” intelligence products that they produce over these “training” weekends is summaries on different nations, military equipment, and world leaders, all using open source intelligence. Whether these products actually get distributed for use, I have no idea (maybe someone can confirm?).

Now, that all being said, there ARE opportunities for a Naval Reserve IntO to work as an actual Intelligence Officer, but all of these jobs are outside of the Naval Reserve. You can go on overseas deployment in Bahrain or Iraq, you can sign up for exercises like RIMPAC, or you can take a long term contract working at TRINITY, which is the Maritime Operational Support & Intelligence Center (MOSIC) in Halifax. You’d be doing actual Intelligence Officer work, but TRINITY is a Regular Force unit, so not “within the Naval Reserve”.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jackal2018]

There is no "day to day" duties of IntOs in NAVRES.

There are no "Intelligence Officer" positions in the Naval Reserve.

First, let be clear on what I mean when I say, “the Naval Reserve”. I don’t mean everyone who is a naval “reservist”, I mean the specific collection of units and organizations that make up the Naval Reserve. This includes the 24 Naval Reserve Divisions (NRDs), the Headquarters, and to a lesser extent, Naval Fleet School Quebec (which technically a part of a Reg Force organization (NPTG), but for all intents and purposes, it’s a Reserve unit).

Second, let me be clear on what I mean by “Intelligence Officer Position”. There are a few positions within the naval reserve that specifically call for an Intelligence Officer, such as the Intelligence Section’s divisional officer position at NRDs, the IntO training officer(s) at Fleet School, etc. However, there are no positions (yet) within the Naval Reserve where Naval Reserve Intelligence Officers will be asked to perform actual intelligence gathering and analysis, and production of intelligence products.

So, if you are an IntO working within the Naval Reserve (full time or part time), all you will be doing is administration, and lots of it, most having nothing to do with Intelligence. You’ll be a divisional officer responsible for junior officers or junior sailors (IntOps), and you’ll take on whatever projects your department head wants to send your way. You could be overseeing the construction/implementation of a new security network at your building, performing a research project on the acquisition of radars for the unit, developing a training plan for the Intelligence section, assisting the OpsO in designing whole unit/regional training exercises, etc…

Every now and then (6 weekends throughout the year) there will be Naval Reserve “Intelligence Officer Training Weekends” across the country that you can sign up for. I have no idea what happens at these weekends, but I hear there’s lots of beer and shenanigans. I believe the most “advanced” intelligence products that they produce over these “training” weekends is summaries on different nations, military equipment, and world leaders, all using open source intelligence. Whether these products actually get distributed for use, I have no idea (maybe someone can confirm?).

Now, that all being said, there ARE opportunities for a Naval Reserve IntO to work as an actual Intelligence Officer, but all of these jobs are outside of the Naval Reserve. You can go on overseas deployment in Bahrain or Iraq, you can sign up for exercises like RIMPAC, or you can take a long term contract working at TRINITY, which is the Maritime Operational Support & Intelligence Center (MOSIC) in Halifax. You’d be doing actual Intelligence Officer work, but TRINITY is a Regular Force unit, so not “within the Naval Reserve”.

Hope this helps.

It helps a lot. Thank you for the insight.
I think I understand the reality of trade as you described it, especially since I heard the trade was taken out and just recently reintroduced again in the NAVRES.
About those deployments or long term contracts, are there real chances of being able to do them after getting trade qualified? Do they require changing to the Regular Force?

Thanks again.

 

[Lumber]

About those deployments or long term contracts, are there real chances of being able to do them after getting trade qualified? Do they require changing to the Regular Force?

Thanks again.

Nope. One thing you'll become quite familiar with is CFTPOs (basically short term taskings) and "REOs" (reserve employment opportunities - these are essentially job bulletins for reservists (not just naval reservists)).

In either of these cases, they will be advertising trying to specifically attract reservists (there will be other job postings/tasking opportunities aimed specifically at Reg Force IntOs). All you do is taken on a short term contract (1-6 month) or long term contract (2-3 years) for these exercises/units, but your status as a "reservists" does not change the entire time, which means at ANY point, you can simply say "screw this, I'm done, I'm going back to my old job".**

**Caveat: unless there's a war; then you're not going ANYWHERE!

 

[Blackadder1916]

About those deployments or long term contracts, are there real chances of being able to do them after getting trade qualified? Do they require changing to the Regular Force?

Nope. One thing you'll become quite familiar with is CFTPOs (basically short term taskings) and "REOs" (reserve employment opportunities - these are essentially job bulletins for reservists (not just naval reservists)).

Further to Lumber's explanation, Reserve Employment Opportunities are online if you want to see what is available.  http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/reo-oer/en/index.aspx

 

[Jackal2018]

Thanks to Lumber and Blackadder1916 for all the information. It's been very helpful. I'm very excited to get started in the CF.

Now all I need to do is wait and hope that everything goes well in my application.

Wish me luck.

 

[polska]

Hi everyone,

Apologies for resurrecting a long dead thread, but I can't seem to find an answer.  Are Air Force and Navy Intelligence Officers still required to do CAP (BMOQ-L)?

 

[Bushman242]

Hi everyone,

Apologies for resurrecting a long dead thread, but I can't seem to find an answer.  Are Air Force and Navy Intelligence Officers still required to do CAP (BMOQ-L)?

I am wondering the exact same thing so thanks for asking! It doesn't specify on the site that only Land candidates need to complete the Common Army phase... it seems as though an Int Officer inherently needs the Land training, regardless of posted environment.

 

[Jstock92]

Hey guys, Im looking for some information from past or present Intelligence operators.

I just put in my VOT last month. I would like to hear something from people with real experience, as after 6 years in my current trade I understand that the videos on the Forces website can be a bit misleading.

Cheers

 

[doydeldog]

Hi, there! It's my first post so I'm sorry if it's not in the right place. I'm sure it's been asked a hundred times but most of what I searched is relatively dated information - so I was hoping for some fresh insight.

I've been considering a few trades, but the NCM Intelligence Operator has stood out to me so far. I've yet to ask the recruitment office about it yet but I was just looking to get a take from people who have a general idea about it. I'm mainly interested in knowing how competitive of a trade it is; how hard it is to get into and an estimation of how high I might need to score in the CFAT to be eligible. Any other information about the job, apart from what the video says on the career site, would also be greatly appreciated!

 

[alwaysfresh]

Has anyone had any experience with IntOp reserves side? I’m just wondering about education standards. I failed out of my university a few years ago due to poor study habits and being young and stupid. I see that, I’ve worked to beat it, and I’m set to graduate next year from a CC. I know IntOp only requires grade 10, but will my university marks reduce my chances of getting in?

 

[jaysfan17]

I was wondering if i could get some insight on how lengthy the process is of VOT’ing from Inf O to Int O. Specially, what does the whole “trades being red or green mean”. Does red mean they need more people?

 

[PuckChaser]

If the trade you are leaving is red, they cap how many people can transfer out every year. If the trade you want to move to is red, they're have a low PML and accept more VOTs than a green trade. Green to red = "easier", Red to Green = difficult

 

[jaysfan17]

If the trade you are leaving is red, they cap how many people can transfer out every year. If the trade you want to move to is red, they're have a low PML and accept more VOTs than a green trade. Green to red = "easier", Red to Green = difficult

Roger, thank you.

I suspect Inf O to Int O will be the ‘red to green’ scenario.

 

[dapaterson]

Int is Red because of growing demand.

Inf trades are relatively easy to fill - training is inexpensive, and there's generally a solid number of Res to Reg CTs. So leaving Inf should not be a big issue.

 

[dklzr]

Hey man, I'm happy to chip in with some of my experiences in the process. Please note that I'm just another humble applicant, much like yourself, so some informal suggestions is all I can give ya.

I also did my CFAT back in 2016, scored "very high" (I feel those words are being thrown out there a lot) and qualified for every trade. My recruiter suggested Int DEO as well, given my language abilities and a compatible Master's degree from Oxford. For me though, it was combat arms or bust, so I didn't give the other trades much consideration and pushed on with my application.

Looking at your signature, it is possible that you will be in for quite a wait. Reliability screening will take time to complete, but what could very well hold up your application is Pre-Sec. In my case the two of them took over a year to complete. As I've traveled and studied abroad quite extensively within the last ten years, this is perhaps understandable. It would appear that most CAF applicants did not have to sit through the process, and having a reliability screening was deemed sufficient. If you are Canadian born and raised, and have not been to problematic countries, then you may not have to go through with Pre-Sec (which can take 6-18 months to complete) at all. I was told that it was merely a formality, albeit a long one, since almost no one get their Pre-Sec denied.

Coding has provided you some very solid stuff right there. INT DEO positions rarely open up (according to Buck CAF is looking to hire only 4 in the 2018/19 FY, and on the forces website it's not even listed as currently hiring). INT's a pretty niche occupation, and as one of the "cool" jobs it has a lot of appeal so competition for openings is likely intense. Having said that, if you have a killer CFAT score and meet and exceed all the right criteria, there's nothing stopping you from getting an offer if and when the selection board for that occupation convenes.

Pilot is always looking to hire, and for good reasons: many don't even make it to the competition list. Unlike most occupations, there are a variety of factors that could end your application. Low CFAT score is the first hurdle for many, medical is the other (e.g. less than 20/20 vision and you can forget about it). Air Crew Selection's no picnic either. Not everyone's cut out for the job, but that just means if you make it to the competition list then your chances are looking pretty good. The problem with INT is that there aren't too many hurdles; a very high CFAT score may get you on the competition list but when you are competing against so many for so few openings, there's no telling how long you might have to wait.

I also feel that many applicants get the wrong impression with how "desperate" CAF is looking to recruit. Some news outlets talk no end about how CAF is short on personnel and struggles with retention. There may be some truth to it, but what many of them neglects to mention is that apparently "far more Canadians — by a factor of 10 — show interest in enlisting than the armed forces actually take in any given year" (please see this Feb 2018 article CityNews). I think a lot of recruiters also do not let on how competitive the process can be, perhaps not wanting to discourage potentially qualified applicants. As for DEO applications, so many people have university degrees these days a Bachelor's or Master's will hardly make anyone stand out.

Also bear in mind that BMOQs happen only so many times a year, and definitely far less frequently than BMQs. Even if you receive an offer, therefore, you may still have to wait several month before going off to basic. By the same token, DEO selections occur less frequently than NCM selections, which may also contribute to longer wait times.

I don't want to paint a picture of doom and gloom. Nevertheless, I think it is very important for you to have a realistic expectation of the process. Ultimately, if CAF thinks you have what it takes, you will be given a chance. It will take time, however, and unfortunately there is no getting around that. The recruitment process is far from perfect, but it does work - and you have to make it work. Be proactive and get all your documents right can go some way in speeding up Pre-Sec. It sounds like you have a good application going, and with your interview coming up you still have time to improve on your chances. Research everything you can about your chosen trades, ask yourself why you want to join the force and why specifically the trades you chose.

At the risk of giving you an answer on something I have no authority on, I'm just gonna come out and say that there is no way your application for those trades will get processed in a couple of month. Whether it stays under a year could very well depend on whether you have to go through Pre-Sec.

At the end of the day, I'm just another applicant like you, so take what I've said here as you will. Much of the process is simply out of your control. I will say this though: you may not control how long it takes, but you sure as hell can determine where you sit on that competition list. Your CFAT is done, but there is still the interview to go. Work on it and give it all you've got. I wish you all the best!

I received an offer in 2020 for engineer officer and declined due to personal reason. Now I want to reapply and I realize just how great of an opportunity I had and let it slip through my finger. I know Eng officer is not as selective as int officer or pilot, but still. Now that it has become a huge desire in my life, I regret hesitating and declining. Oh well, I will reply and see where it takes me.

 

[bbqsauceman]

Hi everyone, I'm hoping to connect with anyone who is/was an Intelligence Operator or Officer and is willing to provide insight into how the trade training is for Army element after BMQ, living on base during training, anything you can discuss about what we learn etc. I just accepted my offer for Intelligence Operator and excited to kick off this new career! Goodluck everyone thanks for your time!