Informing the Army’s Future Structure

[KevinB]

I get that a tracked IFV is not the absolute most pressing thing. However you could do it not as a normal competition, but just state that it will be either the CV 90 or the Bradley, then have the companies give delivery schedules, costs, maintenance support, training support and spare part options. Choose based upon those issues not on the vehicle itself, just state they both met requirements and get the two to sign an agreement of no post decision lawsuit, regarding not being selected. As both production lines are open, they can send us a small initial number which go to one unit who transitions to them and gives their LAV's to other units. That unit becomes the SME of those vehicles and eventually supports anyone else that gets them. If we went Bradley, the ammunition is already in the system, the turret is apparently pretty similar to the LAV's , except for the TOW's. The CV90 will add a new ammunition type and a different turret layout, but I suspect anyone trained on a LAV turret will transition fairly quickly.

Sole source to BAE regardless.
While the Bradley might be the easiest option and one could get a few hundred from US stocks - I don’t think it’s is anything more than a placeholder.
Both the M242 Chaingun and TOW launcher are passing their prime.

CV90 brings a number of gun options as well as Missile options.

While Bradley has been prototyped with Hellfire’s inc a linkage for Longbow feed. I’m not sure that is ready for fielding.

While I’m a fan of both and feel the CA needs a Tracked Heavy IFV to work with MBT’s , I’d agree that there are many more pressing needs of the CA than an IFV, and any IFV program should wait till after some of the UKR LL are fully understood to capitalize on the next gen system.

Unless all of a sudden Canada has an immediate need for one, the wait and see policy is best and allows the limited funds to be spent on more pressing needs.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Sole source to BAE regardless.
While the Bradley might be the easiest option and one could get a few hundred from US stocks - I don’t think it’s is anything more than a placeholder.
Both the M242 Chaingun and TOW launcher are passing their prime.

CV90 brings a number of gun options as well as Missile options.

While Bradley has been prototyped with Hellfire’s inc a linkage for Longbow feed. I’m not sure that is ready for fielding.

While I’m a fan of both and feel the CA needs a Tracked Heavy IFV to work with MBT’s , I’d agree that there are many more pressing needs of the CA than an IFV, and any IFV program should wait till after some of the UKR LL are fully understood to capitalize on the next gen system.

Unless all of a sudden Canada has an immediate need for one, the wait and see policy is best and allows the limited funds to be spent on more pressing needs.

Like upgrading the family's travel wardrobe?

 

[markppcli]

25 inches of ground clearance vs 18 inches with the M1117.

And despite the inadequate armour 18 tonnes vs 13 tonnes for the M1117.

Too high and overloaded.

A start would be to drop the suspension 7 inches, remove the extra armour and all the clutter on the roof.

The tire on the roof is 500 lbs alone, not counting the winch.


I’m a huge fan of the CV90, and I think the Swedes have build it to work in terrain that mirrors the worst we’ll find pretty much anywhere. I also like the equipment racks on the side bins. But alas it’s probably a bridge too far. I’ll be happy if we see ATGM and Man Pads and maybe a carrier for them. If some one marries an Avenger turret to a TAPV hull I’ll have a reaction that will likely result in my dismissal for sexualizing the work place.

 

[Kirkhill]

The tire on the roof is 500 lbs alone, not counting the winch.


I’m a huge fan of the CV90, and I think the Swedes have build it to work in terrain that mirrors the worst we’ll find pretty much anywhere. I also like the equipment racks on the side bins. But alas it’s probably a bridge too far. I’ll be happy if we see ATGM and Man Pads and maybe a carrier for them. If some one marries an Avenger turret to a TAPV hull I’ll have a reaction that will likely result in my dismissal for sexualizing the work place.

I'm generally a fan of a bit of Redneck engineering but I have to say, after comparing the M1117 to the TAPV I get a sense that there was one too many Rednecks on the design team.

Big nobby tires? Check.
Shock lifters? Check
More power? Check
Every accessory known to man? Check
Only thing missing is the beer cooler.

 

[WLSC]

I'm generally a fan of a bit of Redneck engineering but I have to say, after comparing the M1117 to the TAPV I get a sense that there was one too many Rednecks on the design team.

Big nobby tires? Check.
Shock lifters? Check
More power? Check
Every accessory known to man? Check
Only thing missing is the beer cooler.

It can be fix quickly

 

[FJAG]

Too tall, too under armoured, too unreliable, and right now too grounded.

Things you can get to live with when your don't have a spare billion or two to throw around and you keep them off the front line. It looks like it's around STANAG 4569 Level III and IV and mine resistant so ... "you go to war with the Army that Stephen Harper bought you."

 

[daftandbarmy]

Things you can get to live with when your don't have a spare billion or two to throw around and you keep them off the front line. It looks like it's around STANAG 4569 Level III and IV and mine resistant so ... "you go to war with the Army that Stephen Harper bought you."

Or the US led force takes one look at you and says 'you can stay here and hold the horses'....

 

[markppcli]

Things you can get to live with when your don't have a spare billion or two to throw around and you keep them off the front line. It looks like it's around STANAG 4569 Level III and IV and mine resistant so ... "you go to war with the Army that Stephen Harper bought you."

And yet unable to leave their brand new barns.

 

[Kirkhill]

This may be the most important piece of the puzzle. Comms and Navigation.

Army cavalry exercise in Germany puts novel navigation to the test​

At the annual Dragoon Ready exercise, the 2nd Cavalry Regiment rolled out wearable devices connected to the Army’s Integrated Tactical Network. It shows maps and troop positions in real time and allows users to call for fire and relay intelligence.

“It’s like Google Maps combined with WhatsApp,” said Capt. Bradley Lichtfuss, commander of Apache Troop. “I can see where everyone is at, and their status. ... Before, it was like pulling teeth with an old FM radio.”

Lichtfuss said the network lets troops move two or three times faster in unfamiliar terrain than they normally would.

It’s operated via devices similar to cellphones, one of which can be mounted on a squad leader’s chest. The battery pack is carried on the soldier’s back and can power the devices in the field for between 17 and 20 hours.

The system runs off local cell towers, sending data to a cloud, where it’s encrypted and sent back down to command elements miles away.

“But what if they destroy all the cell towers, right?” Lichtfuss said.

In that case, the devices are capable of creating their own network with each other. If that’s not available, the devices still have built-in maps and GPS, which function as a last resort before soldiers have to rely on the Army’s long-taught land navigation skills.

Army cavalry exercise in Germany puts novel navigation to the test

www.stripes.com

 

[GK .Dundas]

It runs off local cell towers....what could possibly go wrong with that...

 

[rmc_wannabe]

It runs off local cell towers....what could possibly go wrong with that...

No more than the various other issues we face with communications links. A bearer is a bearer. They're a massive target either way for EW and Artillery.

 

[KevinB]

It runs off local cell towers....what could possibly go wrong with that...

Understanding that both a lack of cell infrastructure as well as the potential for compromised cell towers. Part of our comms strategy is a sub unit based cell capacity with a zero trust network and local cloud service.

 

[Kirkhill]

50 kW lasers mounted on Strykers effective against drones and 60mm mortars

(Washington D.C.) Army Strykers recently incinerated incoming mortar fire and drones with a vehicle-fired 50kW laser weapon, breaking new ground with the fast-developing High Energy Laser weapon increasingly able to expand the attack envelope for ground units facing enemy air attacks.

Drone attacks, precision artillery, helicopter weapons, fixed-wing threats and mortar fire are all clear dangers to a moving armored formation such as a maneuvering Stryker Infantry Brigade Combat Team closing with an enemy. However, the troubling realization among many Army ground war leaders following the 15 years of counterinsurgency in the War on Terrorism, is that the US Army’s Cold War Air Defense readiness had severely “atrophied” while fighting in environments with little to no air threat.

Directed Energy Maneuver-Short Range Air Defense​

The Army’s Directed Energy Maneuver-Short Range Air Defense, called DE M-SHORAD, is a fast-evolving, cutting edge effort to address this deficit. The DE M-SHORAD destroyed drones and 60mm mortars during a key operational assessment of the HEL weapon at White Sands Missile Range, NM. Made by Raytheon, the HEL is engineered with an “automated queuing” from electro-optical/infrared sensors and scalable power levels.

Strryker offers an engine to recharge the batteries and room for lots of batteries

An interesting Army report on the laser says the design of the DE M-SHORAD leverages the Stryker's gas-powered engine to energize its batteries, cooling system, and laser. The self-contained system has enough electricity to address multiple threats at a time before needing a period to recharge.

Adding new precision air-defense firepower to Strykers does further enable multi-domain operations, as it gives a fast-moving Stryker unit the ability to engage and take out air-threats while on the move. This aligns with large amounts of current Pentagon work, including major Army efforts, to stand up multi-domain task-force units for testing, experimentation and rapid development.

By being able to engage enemy drones, helicopters and even some fixed-wing enemy targets, air-defense lasers greatly improve air-ground tactical attack. Also, perhaps of even greater significance, Stryker-fire lasers could intercept incoming enemy air-missile attacks. As part of this mission, they do have some characteristics which could be described as stealthy. Unlike the explosive effect of firing a kinetic weapon such as a Stinger or Hellfire, a laser is quiet. It does of course give off a light signature, but that is potentially much less detectable than the sound of a missile firing, thus enabling a Stryer to avoid giving up its position.

Lasers can also function as optical sensors able to identify or paint targets for other weapons. This kind of technology also contributes to multi-domain operations because, as platforms increasingly become more networked, air platforms such as drones and surveillance planes will be able to more quickly share targeting information which ground combat assets such as Strykers; this quickens the sensor-to-shooter kill chain and gives attacking forces a better opportunity to get ahead of an enemies’ decision cycle. It further enables tactical combat maneuver as ground attack vehicles can better interoperate with air attack, cueing drones on attack targets or receiving combat-relevant ISR in real time -- with much less latency.

https://warriormaven.com/land/army-strykers-drones-laser-directed-energy-maneuver-short-range-air-defense

 

[KevinB]

50 kW lasers mounted on Strykers effective against drones and 60mm mortars




Strryker offers an engine to recharge the batteries and room for lots of batteries

https://warriormaven.com/land/army-strykers-drones-laser-directed-energy-maneuver-short-range-air-defense

Keep in mind that Stryker bears no resemblance to the power plant of current Stykers and LAV.

The current power plant can’t deliver the goods.

 

[FJAG]

Keep in mind that Stryker bears no resemblance to the power plant of current Stykers and LAV.

The current power plant can’t deliver the goods.

A light to moderately armoured vehicle filled with batteries. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[markppcli]

This may be the most important piece of the puzzle. Comms and Navigation.

Army cavalry exercise in Germany puts novel navigation to the test

www.stripes.com

So they used ATAK

 

[markppcli]

It runs off local cell towers....what could possibly go wrong with that...

Read the follow up. You can actually create networks running of 152s / 163s or even MPU15s if you want to be fancy. The ISSP was trying to do this with a custom made palm pilot, reality is the “End User Device” of choice is a cell phone with the SIM card pulled out connected by a USB to your radio. There’s probably more to it in the technical side but for the end user that’s the gist.

 

[Kirkhill]

So they used ATAK

This?

CivTAK / ATAK - Community, News, Licensing, Support and Download for TAK / ATAK Tools

Community, News, Licensing, Support and Download for TAK / ATAK Tools

www.civtak.org

 

[Prairie canuck]

Whether the CAF gets CV90s or Bradleys, or new Leos or M1s, new AD, new artillery etc, (unless they're pre positioned), they can't get them to the fight in a timely manner. Makes it hard to spend a couple billion $ on new equipment if when they're needed (lets just imagine they're all maintained and ready to go) they're sitting around on the docks for a month or two waiting for a ride. 5 C177s will only do so much and it isn't enough. The CAF must get it's own dedicated naval transports in whatever form that takes, no rentals.
Whether a Big Honking ship or a few simple 500 lane meter ROROs are needed to get them there asap. Our neighbours will be too busy with their own response and deployments so forget that.
If Russia started to mass a substantial force on Latvia's border this week ( ya ya I know, just play along ) how long before the CAF can meet our commitments? I bet the answer is "not soon enough".

 

[markppcli]

This?

CivTAK / ATAK - Community, News, Licensing, Support and Download for TAK / ATAK Tools

Community, News, Licensing, Support and Download for TAK / ATAK Tools

www.civtak.org

Yup, it’s becoming pretty common with our partners, the USAF DACAS system is built around it which will eventually drag the CAF in kicking and screaming.