Informing the Army’s Future Structure

[WLSC]

Does the recruiting incentive still include a wife?

No but you could vote le Capitaine de la Seigneurie

 

[FJAG]

Does the recruiting incentive still include a wife?

This is why you want flashy uniforms with lots of bling.

 

[FJAG]

It strikes me that even with the kit we have on hand it should not be beyond our abilities to field at least a Standard Light Division and possibly even a Standard Heavy Division (or at least a Light Division with a LAV Brigade and a Tank Bn).

Once again, @Kirkhill, you've managed to raise my blood pressure. The 36 Inf Div (ARNG) South Central US and the 24th Inf Div (ARNG) North Central US are designated as Armor (Reinforced) and Armor (Standard) Divisions and the morons that run our army can't envision our 16,000 ARes people as forming anything more than a platoon. ... And that's leaving aside the six ARNG Light Infantry Divisions they form.

Jesus f'k'n Christ.

 

[WLSC]

Once again, @Kirkhill, you've managed to raise my blood pressure. The 36 Inf Div (ARNG) South Central US and the 24th Inf Div (ARNG) North Central US are designated as Armor (Reinforced) and Armor (Standard) Divisions and the morons that run our army can't envision our 16,000 ARes people as forming anything more than a platoon. ... And that's leaving aside the six ARNG Light Infantry Divisions they form.

Jesus f'k'n Christ.

This is what pissed me off all my years in. It is in fact the reflect our their poor vision, planning and honesty toward us and the CoG. All that to bring us where? At being a laughable dim réflexion of ourself.

But we’re good.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Once again, @Kirkhill, you've managed to raise my blood pressure. The 36 Inf Div (ARNG) South Central US and the 24th Inf Div (ARNG) North Central US are designated as Armor (Reinforced) and Armor (Standard) Divisions and the morons that run our army can't envision our 16,000 ARes people as forming anything more than a platoon. ... And that's leaving aside the six ARNG Light Infantry Divisions they form.

Jesus f'k'n Christ.

Be careful about who you point fingers at here.

Never underestimate the ability of the CAF Reserve's 'Leadership' to also grossly mismanage within their own arcs e.g. 'Train to Excite', the CRIC and other sundry flavour-of-the-month type 'Operational Tasking' efforts that come and go like a rash, as well as a variety of other royally screwed up formation level concentrations.

Many seem to believe that they really are a sort of morally superior, separate, military force operating in competition with, as opposed to in augmentation of, the Reg F.

And then there's the paranoid, eternal, infighting thing

 

[Old Sweat]

Here we went again!! Anybody old enough to remember total force where we tried to create a force made up of regulars and reserves that would be combat ready in 30 days from the order to mobilize. Don't get me going on it, but we did aim, or so we said, to make it fly during so many reserve concentrations and the like. There was progress, but 30 days was way too short a time, given everything we had to do. Despite that, total force survived well past its worst before date, let alone it best before date. A few of us tried to claim the emperor had no clothes, but it eventually the scheme was canned.

 

[markppcli]

Yup. You can start a weekend exercise on a Friday night with a supply point that the exercising battalion or company has to access for its next day's worth of ammunition food, water, POL, you name it. Do the same again Saturday night. During the daytime the CSS folks can replenish for the next night and carry on with other training.

I've actually seen that done a long long time ago; once. Usually, however, the logistics load for a weekend exercise is so small that no one wants to play that game and just take the easy way out and avoid it altogether.

It’s also probably worth noting that relying on the Reserve Svc Bn, whose members will show up or not show up depending on their mood, is probably not a very solid logistics foundation upon which to base your exercise.

 

[KevinB]

Here we went again!! Anybody old enough to remember total force where we tried to create a force made up of regulars and reserves that would be combat ready in 30 days from the order to mobilize. Don't get me going on it, but we did aim, or so we said, to make it fly during so many reserve concentrations and the like. There was progress, but 30 days was way too short a time, given everything we had to do. Despite that, total force survived well past its worst before date, let alone it best before date. A few of us tried to claim the emperor had no clothes, but it eventually the scheme was canned.

Totally Force wasn’t a bad idea.
The 10/90 setup worked well for the Arty units in the early 90’s.
10/90 IMHO isn’t enough for the other Cbt Arms, and I think @FJAG is correct that 30/70 is a much better setup for that.

The other issue is just simply missing kit.
You can’t train to fight, if you don’t have gear to fight…

 

[WLSC]

Be careful about who you point fingers at here.

Never underestimate the ability of the CAF Reserve's 'Leadership' to also grossly mismanage within their own arcs e.g. 'Train to Excite', the CRIC and other sundry flavour-of-the-month type 'Operational Tasking' efforts that come and go like a rash, as well as a variety of other royally screwed up formation level concentrations.

Many seem to believe that they really are a sort of morally superior, separate, military force operating in competition with, as opposed to in augmentation of, the Reg F.

And then there's the paranoid, eternal, infighting thing

Absolutely, we can be our worst enemy and I couldn't agree more on all those why. It's easy to setup an organisation for failure. Send them the ressources they need to barely survive, give them no real goals and if you do, just enough ressources in kit and personal to make them grow, set the bar to high and them prononce the failure. Refuse to re-organise, refuse to equip, pay lip service in cooperations and we have what we have.

When we started to get train as a mech sub unit, it was not that we were not getting better, it was pure jealousy that make everything stop. Yes, the end of the Cold War was there, so it was for the RegF. It was view and told to us as an opportunity to at last, return the genie of a credible ARes in the bottle. ''We never needed you like that, don't need you like that and never will. Only as individual reinforcement and if need be''.

So yes, big brother (mostly L2's and down) at best don't care, at worst work against. That create the vacuum of the good idea fairy and create chaos, which in turn prove their points.

 

[Rifleman62]

I somewhat disagree with the above. If you have an interesting trg plan with some exciting training the soldiers will turn up. Each mbr had a preprinted pocket size note book with the years trg plan. They could add their personal schedule in: Exams/Birthdays/whatever. Incl was the BP at each level for an upcoming FTX. IE Orders 3 weeks in advance, Pl Comd BP two weeks, Sect Comd BP 1 week as an example. Prep for FTX last Pde Ni before the weekend incl Confirmatory Orders.

Train as soldiers and specialist's: wpn trg as posted previously. Fighting Order, cam up. Local defence, ambush drills, shellscapes. Get crates, empty ammo boxes (instead of trashing) jerry cans in abundance to simulate cross loading. Route recce (veh and on foot), CP drills etc.

The problem with the PRes Inf now is that they never seem to establish a CP or ECH. Just want bayonets. Unit RQ delivers direct to the Coy (-). You cannot practice a Svc Bn into thin air.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Be careful about who you point fingers at here.

Never underestimate the ability of the CAF Reserve's 'Leadership' to also grossly mismanage within their own arcs e.g. 'Train to Excite', the CRIC and other sundry flavour-of-the-month type 'Operational Tasking' efforts that come and go like a rash, as well as a variety of other royally screwed up formation level concentrations.

Many seem to believe that they really are a sort of morally superior, separate, military force operating in competition with, as opposed to in augmentation of, the Reg F.

And then there's the paranoid, eternal, infighting thing

You hit the nail on the head.

I think the Reg F lives rent free in a lot of ARes heads. And the reversal isn't true.

And its why I will continue to beat the gong that organizational/institutional change to the ARes is going to have to start from within itself.

 

[WLSC]

I somewhat disagree with the above. If you have an interesting trg plan with some exciting training the soldiers will turn up. Each mbr had a preprinted pocket size note book with the years trg plan. They could add their personal schedule in: Exams/Birthdays/whatever. Incl was the BP at each level for an upcoming FTX. IE Orders 3 weeks in advance, Pl Comd BP two weeks, Sect Comd BP 1 week as an example. Prep for FTX last Pde Ni before the weekend incl Confirmatory Orders.

Train as soldiers and specialist's: wpn trg as posted previously. Fighting Order, cam up. Local defence, ambush drills, Get crates, empty ammo boxes (instead of trashing) jerry cans in abundance to simulate cross loading. Route recce, CP drills etc.

The problem with the PRes Inf now is that they never seem to establish a CP or ECH. Just want bayonets. Unit RQ delivers direct to the Coy (-). You cannot practice a Svc Bn into thin air.

Every thing you say is true. Everything you say is unit level. We are surviving because of the initiative, leadership and devotion of the unit level leadership. Belive me, I'm 1000% with you.

One doesn't exclu the other. You can have like we have unit level leadership doing there outmost to make things happen dispite everything or a better structures were staff wont have to fight the system to have fragvest for weekend exercices because we don't need that.

My beef is absolutely not against the units. My beef is against all those ''leaders'' that just don't care.

 

[WLSC]

You hit the nail on the head.

I think the Reg F lives rent free in a lot of ARes heads. And the reversal isn't true.

And its why I will continue to beat the gong that organizational/institutional change to the ARes is going to have to start from within itself.

It will never happen by itself. Not because the ARes don't want it. It's frankly the only thing we want, to be credible. Impossible to be done in a silo. @FJAG is right and I think the 30/70 could work if it's not only the usual lips service.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It will never happen by itself. Not because the ARes don't want it. It's frankly the only thing we want, to be credible. Impossible to be done in a silo. @FJAG is right and I think the 30/70 could work if it's not only the usual lips service.

Read my post. I said needs to start from within itself. Not done in a silo. The ARes needs to come to the table with the plan. The implementation and follow through is a Pan Army endeavor.

These 30/70 or 10/90s will never work because we lack the fortitude to expect our A Class soldiers to show up and train. Until such a point the ARes desides it wants to hold its A Class accountable the best the ARes can do is provide augmentation.

 

[WLSC]

Read my post. I said needs to start from within itself. Not done in a silo. The ARes needs to come to the table with the plan. The implementation and follow through is a Pan Army endeavor.

These 30/70 or 10/90s will never work because we lack the fortitude to expect our A Class soldiers to show up and train. Until such a point the ARes desides it wants to hold its A Class accountable the best the ARes can do is provide augmentation.

When I said we only want to be credible, that's coming from with in.

Were we are shooting ourself to the foot up the the knee, is the will to suffer a reorganization. Since no one wants it at strat level, there's no appetite to unf*** ourself in this matter.

 

[Halifax Tar]

When I said we only want to be credible, that's coming from with in.

Were we are shooting ourself to the foot up the the knee, is the will to suffer a reorganization. Since no one wants it at strat level, there's no appetite to unf*** ourself in this matter.

Hence why the ARes needs to take the bull by the horns and come to big Army with a solution.

Right now the ARes is doing what big Army wants, providing piecemeal augmentation. If the ARes wants to be and contribute more it needs to unf*** that themselves, to use your words

 

[Rifleman62]

The ARes needs to come to the table with the plan.

I don't understand. Why does the ARes have to come up with a plan and "sell" it to CAF/Army HQ? How would the ARes do it? Set by Areas, Corps? Call for papers, set up a committee, have several conferences, write a submission?

It's not the job of the ARes. It's the government responsibility filtered to the CAF/Army HQ. The ARes will do what is told to do whether they like it or not as it has always been.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I don't understand. Why does the ARes have to come up with a plan and "sell" it to CAF/Army HQ? How would the ARes do it? Set by Areas, Corps? Call for papers, set up a committee, have several conferences, write a submission?

It's not the job of the ARes. It's the government responsibility filtered to the CAF/Army HQ. The ARes will do what is told to do whether they like it or not as it has always been.

Because no one else is going to. If the organization wants to be more than it is now, it needs to come up with that plan. Otherwise, get comphy.

There is no reason the ARes cant come to the Army with a realistic self improvement plan.

 

[Rifleman62]

Impossibility IMHO.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Impossibility IMHO.

Then, as I said; get comphy.