Infantry Vehicles

[Colin Parkinson]

Even with it, we were a stones throw from a Thyssen-Henschel subsidiary completely supplanting the GM/GLDS

Ethical issues aside, I really wonder how different the Army would look today if Bear Head had happened and we had the 495 family with all it's variants in place going into Afghanistan

Looks a lot like the Italian Dardo IFV wonder if the design is related?

 

[markppcli]

Looks a lot like the Italian Dardo IFV wonder if the design is related?

The gun is the same so possible the turrets had similar designs.

 

[Dana381]

Listening to the Chieftain talking about the US preparing for war, the US military just prior to WWII gave small contracts at a premium to various supplier to let them learn how to build military equipment and to develop the abilty to mass produce it. The goal was not to get the equipment at the optimal price, but was to teach both industry and themselves how to contract, design and build the equipment.

Kinda like the NSPS. Maybe Davie is on to something with their National Icebreaker Centre.

 

[Spencer100]

And a population close to the size of ours.

The general thoughts here are what are placed through out the Military and Political spectrum. It should should change. But it does not. Think big get. Think small get small.

With out MOWAG none of the AVGPs or lAVS would have been built What's your point? You build a system and continue to improve that system. The AVGP/ LAV fleet is probably the largest success story of Canadian Defense industry production in my life time. It would be good to see them build upon their success.

Hire a taller person, buy a new ladder, or get a electric lift. All can get the job done. Setting roadblocks in the way and saying it cant be done is silly at best. If the LAV series go to the way side for a tracked fleet then we will loose any foot hold we have in the Armored Defense industry.

I still remember watching when the LAVIIIs were being evaluated in FT Lewis. The Americans liked what they were watching. Heck I liked what I was seeing. They were tearing around the range in them 8 wheeled beasts. It was pretty good to see the Americans saying we want those.

Enough on this particular subject, when does the CV90 factory get built?

I would like to know how FMC a Chemical Company Designed the Bradley Fighting Vehicle. Must have been some outside the box thinking by their CEOS/ Designers at the time. Taking risks that paid off. Maybe in the near future a Canadian Oilfield company can design and build Canada's next Armored vehicle.

Because FMC was the Food Machinery Corporation. It started making machine to spray chemicals on fruit trees. Then moved into the food packaging business. In WWII they built the Amtracs and other things. The M113 was their product too. In the end that business landed at BAE Systems after buying United defence. The food processing and packaging equipment was spun off. The auto business was sold. In the end leaving a chemical business.

OT: if you need an example of industrial thinking outside of the use Nokia. Started as a paper mill, moved to rubber then Nokian tires. That got them into cables then electronics and military applications like gas masks and radios. they built computers and TV too exited when they saw that they could not compete with Asia. Which got them into telephones switches and then mobile phones. Where they were the biggest but the management was smart enough to know sell now to Microsoft for the big money. But retain the switch business and all the patients. So Nokia is the one of the largest network switch and gear providers (NorTel did not do so well) And you can still get Nokian tires which are said to be very good.

 

[childs56]

Because FMC was the Food Machinery Corporation. It started making machine to spray chemicals on fruit trees. Then moved into the food packaging business. In WWII they built the Amtracs and other things. The M113 was their product too. In the end that business landed at BAE Systems after buying United defence. The food processing and packaging equipment was spun off. The auto business was sold. In the end leaving a chemical business.

They still manufacture various Oilfield equipment also. Is a interesting company to say.

 

[KevinB]

They still manufacture various Oilfield equipment also. Is an interesting company to say.

Most companies around in WW2 did a lot of Military products.
The FMC spin off was a bit of odd one, as it stayed in Armored Vehicles after that and even heavily invested in an R&D team for it. It only got shopped around in 1994 years after the Bradley win.

FWIW they also did airport jet bridges

FMC TO BUY JETWAY SYSTEMS OF ABEX FOR $40 MILLION IN CASH

FMC Corp. said it will buy Abex's Jetway Systems Division for $40 million in cash. Jetway Systems, which designs, produces and installs passenger boarding bridges and other aircraft support systems, will be combined with FMC's airline equip-ment division, FMC said.

www.deseret.com

They seem to have gotten out of that as well.

 

[FJAG]

Because FMC had been involved in armoured vehicle production since WW2.

Yup - FMC built around 80,000 M113s.

 

[Spencer100]

Most companies around in WW2 did a lot of Military products.
The FMC spin off was a bit of odd one, as it stayed in Armored Vehicles after that and even heavily invested in an R&D team for it. It only got shopped around in 1994 years after the Bradley win.

FWIW they also did airport jet bridges

FMC TO BUY JETWAY SYSTEMS OF ABEX FOR $40 MILLION IN CASH

FMC Corp. said it will buy Abex's Jetway Systems Division for $40 million in cash. Jetway Systems, which designs, produces and installs passenger boarding bridges and other aircraft support systems, will be combined with FMC's airline equip-ment division, FMC said.

www.deseret.com

They seem to have gotten out of that as well.

By the nineties Wall Street had lost favour with the big industrial conglomerates. Most companies were encouraged to sell or saw off different business lines and focus on one or two industrial or business verticals. Examples of GM selling heavy truck lines, Hughes, Direct TV, GM Defence and Detroit Diesel and train lines, EDS, etc.

The rise of inexpensive mutual funds and today the hedge funds allowed investors to diversify outside the conglomerate corporate structure. Allowing management to hyper focus on one or two businesses. This drove the stock market and the hyper competitive markets we see today.

Interesting is the "tech" sector is going learn this too? Or are they building the walls and corporate motes to defend there large structures and market share? Amazon started as a book seller, then a market place, and now a entertainment giant, the largest cloud computing company, manufacturing and outsource company, one of the largest grocers, the third largest logistics company etc. Alphabet, largest search engine, data base and cloud computing too, manufacturer and seller of phones, vacuums, door locks and security. investor in cars and vans. Largest advertising giant in the world. etc.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yup - FMC built around 80,000 M113s.

and the LVTP5 and the M75 and over 6,000 M59's

 

[Kirkhill]

When looking for more info on the RDM 120 mortar I discovered a video of the unit being test fired from a Hungarian 4x4 (Gidran)

Successful test of 120mm MWS Ragnarok mounted into Gidran 4x4 ACV

Hungarian Armed Forces conducted successful tests of a Ragnarok 120mm mortar weapon system installed in the Gidran armored combat vehicle remote weapon platform

bulgarianmilitary.com

Which resulted in this

Hungarian Gidran, Turkish Ejder Yalcin, Israeli Sandcat, Canadian Senator, Ukrainian Kozak, American JLTV, Aussie Hawkei - Light MPVs

 

[ueo]

When looking for more info on the RDM 120 mortar I discovered a video of the unit being test fired from a Hungarian 4x4 (Gidran)

Successful test of 120mm MWS Ragnarok mounted into Gidran 4x4 ACV

Hungarian Armed Forces conducted successful tests of a Ragnarok 120mm mortar weapon system installed in the Gidran armored combat vehicle remote weapon platform

bulgarianmilitary.com

Which resulted in this

Hungarian Gidran, Turkish Ejder Yalcin, Israeli Sandcat, Canadian Senator, Ukrainian Kozak, American JLTV, Aussie Hawkei - Light MPVs

View attachment 76192View attachment 76193

Must have one hell of a good recoil/suspension. Remember the trials of firing a 4.2 from inside a M113, dropped the belly almost surgically.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Must have one hell of a good recoil/suspension. Remember the trials of firing a 4.2 from inside a M113, dropped the belly almost surgically.

When did we relinquish the 4.2 mortar?

 

[GK .Dundas]

From a conversation I had a couple of years back. Somebody had mentioned that mid to late 70's.
A combination of factors , declining ammo stocks ,red tagged barrels and and shortage of qualified people to man them. As well as a lack of interest from higher up the food chain.

 

[KevinB]

When looking for more info on the RDM 120 mortar I discovered a video of the unit being test fired from a Hungarian 4x4 (Gidran)

Successful test of 120mm MWS Ragnarok mounted into Gidran 4x4 ACV

Hungarian Armed Forces conducted successful tests of a Ragnarok 120mm mortar weapon system installed in the Gidran armored combat vehicle remote weapon platform

bulgarianmilitary.com

Which resulted in this

Hungarian Gidran, Turkish Ejder Yalcin, Israeli Sandcat, Canadian Senator, Ukrainian Kozak, American JLTV, Aussie Hawkei - Light MPVs

View attachment 76192View attachment 76193

With respect the JLTV is a significantly different beast than the others.
It’s got some large advantages over the others, as well as a bunch of drawbacks due to design the others don’t have.

There are 4 different JLTV versions - but basically 2 different styles a 2 door 2 seater, and a 4 door 4 seater.
The crew area of the JLTV is significantly more armored, but the rear ‘storage’ area is completely open.

None of the the JLTV variants offer any protection to one’s support gear (one can get a small backpack in inside - but no room for rucks etc).
As well there is next to no additional ammo storage in the interior.

 

[Spencer100]

plus many more

Arquus Fortess

GDLS Europe

Inkas Sentry (Canadian)

Terrdyne Gurkha (Canadian)

Uro Vamtac

 

[Spencer100]

Also if you want to go a different way than the CV90

You can look at Bonix II

Or the even newer Hunter

And have ST Engineering open a plant or JV to build and sweet it with an order of Bronco's Happy day for the Make in Canada crowd.
Bronco ATC

then you can add an order Primus SPG

With a side of Light Strike Vehicle

Its a full meal deal!

 

[KevinB]

Also if you want to go a different way than the CV90

You can look at Bonix II

Or the even newer Hunter

And have ST Engineering open a plant or JV to build and sweet it with an order of Bronco's Happy day for the Make in Canada crowd.
Bronco ATC

then you can add an order Primus SPG

With a side of Light Strike Vehicle

Its a full meal deal!

The only issue with those is based on the ones I saw in Singapore, they are sized for the small side of the solider. They would be cramped for North American sized soldiers.

 

[Spencer100]

The only issue with those is based on the ones I saw in Singapore, they are sized for the small side of the solider. They would be cramped for North American sized soldiers.

So you're saying.......

 

[markppcli]

When looking for more info on the RDM 120 mortar I discovered a video of the unit being test fired from a Hungarian 4x4 (Gidran)

Successful test of 120mm MWS Ragnarok mounted into Gidran 4x4 ACV

Hungarian Armed Forces conducted successful tests of a Ragnarok 120mm mortar weapon system installed in the Gidran armored combat vehicle remote weapon platform

bulgarianmilitary.com

Which resulted in this

Hungarian Gidran, Turkish Ejder Yalcin, Israeli Sandcat, Canadian Senator, Ukrainian Kozak, American JLTV, Aussie Hawkei - Light MPVs

View attachment 76192View attachment 76193

Light utility vehicles. These are equivalent to a G Wagon or a HMMVW

 

[Prairie canuck]

Also if you want to go a different way than the CV90

You can look at Bonix II

Or the even newer Hunter

And have ST Engineering open a plant or JV to build and sweet it with an order of Bronco's Happy day for the Make in Canada crowd.
Bronco ATC

then you can add an order Primus SPG

With a side of Light Strike Vehicle

Its a full meal deal!

Why not just do the Canadian thing and do some cross border shopping at our neighbour's armouries/arsenals...