Should Canada adopt the LAV III (AKA: Stryker) as its primary armoured vehicle family?

[KevinB]

Why do all these releases say that the Canadian Army is getting a "new and improved fleet of Light Armoured Vehicles III"?
It is the same old fleet of LAV III and only some of the vehicles will be improved.

Your only supposed to read the headline silly...

 

[The Bread Guy]

Why do all these releases say that the Canadian Army is getting a "new and improved fleet of Light Armoured Vehicles III"?
It is the same old fleet of LAV III and only some of the vehicles will be improved.

Ah, but the group of LAV III's that are being upgraded can be considered, as a group, a "fleet" of "new and improved" vehicles, right?  It doesn't say the WHOLE existing "fleet" is being improved - fleets within fleets ....

Your only supposed to read the headline silly...

OK, that too.

 

[McG]

Ah, but the group of LAV III's that are being upgraded can be considered, as a group, a "fleet" of "new and improved" vehicles, right?  It doesn't say the WHOLE existing "fleet" is being improved - fleets within fleets ....

Even looking at it as a fleet within a fleet, we have improved but not new.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Even looking at it as a fleet within a fleet, we have improved but not new.

Repeat after me "as good as new, as good as new...."

;D

Meanwhile....

• Government of Canada Invests in Canadian Jobs and the Canadian Armed Forces’ Fleet of Light Armoured Vehicles III (Stratford)
• Delivery of the first upgraded Light Armoured Vehicle III (London) today

 

[The Bread Guy]

The latest timeline estimate from the DND Info-machine (see attached Backgrounder if link doesn't work)

.... On January 24, 2013, the Government of Canada announced the on-schedule delivery of Canada's first upgraded Light Armoured Vehicle III, in London, Ontario. The next steps will be to conduct a comprehensive test and evaluation program to ensure their performance, and put in place the necessary logistics support to allow fielding to operational units in fall 2013.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Even MOAR LAV III news....
"Government of Canada Invests in Canadian Jobs and the Canadian Armed Forces’ Fleet of Light Armoured Vehicles III (Ottawa)"

 

[DirtyDog]

Anyone have pictures other than the one released here:

Just curious to see it....

 

[Tango24B]

More images of the new LAV-UP....

http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/thread/1359659835/LAV+III+UP

 

[DirtyDog]

I already see one major fault.....

With no external headlight pods, there's nowhere to rest the 25 barrel once removed from the extension.

 

[AC 011]

I already see one major fault.....

With no external headlight pods, there's nowhere to rest the 25 barrel once removed from the extension.

You're not the only one to notice.

It's being fixed.

 

[George Wallace]

I already see one major fault.....

With no external headlight pods, there's nowhere to rest the 25 barrel once removed from the extension.

Not only that, but a couple problems I see with this "designer upgrade":

1.  How do you change the headlights when required?

2.  Do these lights create a weakness in armour protection/weak point in armour hull?

 

[AC 011]

Not only that, but a couple problems I see with this "designer upgrade":

1.  How do you change the headlights when required?

2.  Do these lights create a weakness in armour protection/weak point in armour hull?

George,

Without going into any real detail:

1.  The light clusters can be removed through the front of the bumper to change the lights.

2.  No.  The lights are in the bumper.  Like the (old?) LAV3, the bumper is separate from the hull.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Squeezing mo' blood from that LAV III announcement stone....

"Government of Canada Invests in Canadian Jobs and the Canadian Armed Forces' Fleet of Light Armoured Vehicles III"

 

[The Bread Guy]

Bumped with the latest ....

At least one Canadian officer has been taking part in an American summit on "whither the Stryker?" - this from the Pentagon Info-machine (highlights mine)....

Leaders from various Stryker units gathered at the Stryker Leader Summit at the I Corps Headquarters Nov. 15 to discuss the capabilities and future of the vehicle.

According to Lt. Gen Robert Brown, commanding general, I Corps, the ability to share the ideas on training is extremely important, especially with the changes the Stryker community has coming in the future.

During the one-day summit, troops listened to experts, witnessed the evolution of the Stryker and viewed five different configurable Stryker vehicles.

“The forum provided newer members of the community the opportunity to gain invaluable knowledge on new equipment,” said Maj. Juan A. Vega, executive officer, 404th Army Field Service Battalion.

(....)

According to David Dopp, project manager, Stryker Brigade Combat Team, double V hulls provide the troops inside the vehicle with increased blast protection from a detonation.
Another point of the summit focused on the future of the older flat-bottom Stryker vehicles. The better protection afforded by the double V Strykers has rendered the flat bottom version obsolete.

However, budgeting constraints are affecting the effectiveness of creating a better vehicle for rapid deployment of troops at the front lines, said Col. Chuck Heimann, Department of the Army, Land and War Net.

Therefore, the Army is saving money by taking the current fleet of flat bottoms and stripping them of useful parts and assembled into a new double V hull structure, said Gordon Stein, vice president, Stryker Brigade Combat Team Programs.

“This creates a 30 percent cost effective swap,” he added.

In addition, the panel discussed the future of the Stryker brigades. The Army of 2020 is going to incorporate a Brigade Engineer Battalion into current BCTs, said Capt. Stephen C. Von Jett, Dark Horse Company commander, 1st Battalion, 29th Infantry Regiment, Fort Benning, Ga.

“The forum is the center gravity that goes a long way in synchronizing aspects of the community marching forward,” said Lt. Col. Kevin Ng, Canadian army ....

Lt. Col. Kevin Ng, Canadian army, discusses the improvements to the Stryker Infantry Carrier Vehicle platform with a member of General Dynamics Land Systems, during an equipment display as part of the Stryker War-Fighter Summit at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash., Nov. 15, 2013. The summit brought leaders together to discuss the future of the Stryker vehicle program. (U.S. Army photo by Sgt. Christopher Prows, 5th Mobile Public Affairs Detachment/Released)

 

[McG]

A lengthy but interesting article on LAV 6.0 here:  http://vanguardcanada.com/lav-6-0-protected-mobile-and-lethal/

But the modernized version rolling into service over the next five years is a far cry from the LAV III that returned battered and bruised from Afghanistan. Built on the lessons of that campaign, the Balkans, and domestic operations, the LAV UP, or LAV 6.0 as it is being called, is predicated on what Major Pierre Larrivee, the program director for the Director of Land Requirements, calls the “perfect triangle” of protection, mobility and lethality.

Before the LAV III was deployed to Afghanistan, its baseline weight was about 36,000 pounds; with add-on armour, payload and personnel, it topped 42,000. Following the LAV Operation Requirement Integration Task (LORIT) program in 2009 to address the threat of IEDs, which included new belly and side armour, an enhanced weapon station and attenuating seats, the vehicle weighed in at a top-heavy 52,000 once personnel and kit were piled on.

The LAV 6.0 begins at a baseline weight of 45,000 pounds and climbs to 55,000 once it is fully kitted. With the full combat package of protection and ammunition, it reaches 63,000.

“Mobility is also protection,” Larrivee noted. “If you go fast, you are better protected. So we asked General Dynamics Land Systems-Canada, give us at 55,000 pounds the same performance of a baseline LAV at 36,000. That was the challenge.”

…
In October 2011, General Dynamics Land Systems-Canada was awarded a $1.064 billion contract to upgrade 550 of the LAV III vehicles in four variants, an infantry section carrier, a command post, an observation post and an engineer vehicle. That contract was modified in September 2012 to include 66 more for reconnaissance, valued at $151 million.

The double V hull is one of the most notable differences to the LAV 6.0. During the definition phase of the project, the army explored a number of options to enhance survivability. When GDLS-C suggested the double V, the army conducted both performance and cost analysis to determine the suitability, said Garth Ray, DND project manager for the LAV UP. “The Americans were interested in that similar type of protection; after doing our analysis it looked like a pretty good solution.”

Getting back to the title of this old thread: Canada will be better off with all LAV as opposed to a mix of LAV and CCV.  It is good that we are going in this direction.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Considering we have no idea what the next war will be, I like the heavy and light mix. If you are going with a CCV, stop mucking around and go with a track. Slowly upgrade the LAV fleet and have a rolling replacement/upgrade program that never really stops.

 

[MilEME09]

Some news on the LAV Front, via Canadian Defense Review

The Government of Canada has awarded a CDN$287 million contract to General Dynamics Land Systems-Canada for the provision and integration of an enhanced surveillance suite on the Canadian LAV III Upgrade vehicles, known as LAV 6.0.

The upgraded surveillance system will include a 10-meter retractable mast, an Operator Control Station and a surveillance suite inclusive of radar, thermal/day and image intensification sights, laser range finder and GPS mounted on a stabilized platform. These enhancements will allow for superior detection ranges, on-the-move operation, integrated silent watch power management and the transmission of images through the communications system.

"General Dynamics Land Systems-Canada continues their 37 year partnership with the Government of Canada," said Danny Deep, vice president of General Dynamics Land Systems-Canada.  "More than 20 years ago, we designed and delivered to the Canadian Army the Coyote vehicle which at the time was the best reconnaissance/surveillance vehicle in the world. We are now privileged to deliver the next generation of advanced surveillance capability to the Canadian soldier."

Deliveries of LAV 6.0 vehicles equipped with the upgraded surveillance suite will commence in December 2016.

 

[McG]

It looks like Israel will follow so many western armies and introduce an 8x8 APC of its own. 

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/2016/08/01/israel-unveils-wheeled-actively-protected-armored-carrier/87907090/

Looking to our own fleets, I wonder, could the Army upgrade its LAV 2 and older (so, Bison, Coyote, and any remaining AVGP in stocks) to the LAV 6?  Yes, we will be really getting all new vehicles but that is also true of the LAV 3 to LAV 6 upgrades.  Then we could get some of the support platforms that we need and it would not involve a whole nasty procurement.

 

[PuckChaser]

Sure would streamline repairs and logistics for SPSS if Recce, EW, Comms and Amb were all the same platform.

 

[Kirkhill]

All you really need is the VIN tags off the vehicles - or whatever the military equivalent is - then you can build a whole new vehicle around the tag.