I guess democracy doesn't work...protests on Afghan mission.

[a_majoor]

More on the leadership of these protest groups:

http://www.mikebrockonline.com/blog/2008/03/jack-layton-walks-with-the-far.html

Jack Layton walks with the far left
By
Mike Brock
on March 16, 2008 1:43 PM

Yesterday, Jack Layton took to the streets of Toronto, to demand that Canada be "on a path towards peace in Afghanistan", at a protest organized by the far-left, radical Toronto Coalition to Stop the War. I'm sure he had plenty of fun, but a few notes about this group:

I've had some face-to-face conversations with the organizers of the TCSW, last year, when I went to a conference called Marxism 2007: A Festival of Resistance on the University of Toronto campus.

I spoke to quite a few individuals there, and most of my conversations are still recorded on minidisc, as the purpose of my trip was material for my show. So I can tell people, first hand, that the main people behind nowar.ca are principally communists. No, I'm not being Mr. Conspiracy.

In fact, these people are so far to the left, in their support with the Communist Party of Canada, and the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist), that they see the NDP as only a lesser-evil at best.

These people are also highly connected to local student "unions", particularly the Ryerson Student's Union, a constituent of the Canadian Federation of Students.

They even have their own radio station.

Go to the Ryerson University Student Campus Centre, and go up the stairs to the University Radio Station CKLN, and you'll often find communist paraphernalia on sale there. And if you look deeper, you'll find that the radio station itself is more connected with the communist movement, than with the social democratic movement.

No, I've never gone to Ryerson University as a student. But for a while, I took great time and effort in investigating and affiliating myself with the far-left here in Toronto. It's a tight-knit group, where you find the same old usual suspects wherever you go.

In fact, some local communist activists were at the Maclean's-Islam town hall at—there's that name again—Ryerson University. I know this, because some of them recognized me and approached me, having recognized me from my appearance at the Marxism conference.

The thing I find talking to these people, is that a lot of them are so blazingly honest about their motives, which is why they're probably relegated to the fringes of society. For example: I've been told in conversation, on more than one occasion, that these people are not necessarily against militarism. No, they are against militarism in the form of liberal hegemony. And by liberal, they mean capitalist. They have no problem with organizations like the FARC, or other communist paramilitaries.

Remember, communists are anti-liberal. Not anti-war. Liberalism means completely open democracy, absolute individual rights, etc. All of which are incompatible with far-left dogma.

If you read the manifesto of the Communist Party of Canada, you'll find that they prefer a new constitution, where only socialist parties may run for government; their idea of democracy is making liberalism illegal.

They justify it in weird and curious ways, which I'm sure they themselves believe.

It is their opinion, that in a liberal democratic society, nobody can ever be completely "free" since the "proletariat" are slaves to the "bourgeois". So it is with this, that they think of "mandatory socialist principles" for all political parties as being "more free". But I'm only pointing this out to show how delusional they are. There's a million ways to pick apart their logic, and I don't have the time.

I'm also pointing this out to show the kind of company that Jack Layton, Linda McQuaig, Judy Rebick, and others keep.

They stand side-by-side at rallies. Rallies organized by far-left radicals, who seek to remove the basic underpinnings of our free and open society, through the imposition of their morality, their political ideology and their "leaders".

With the tendency to sympathize with those kinds of people, it's no wonder that such people support the fascist Human Rights Commissions. It allows them to back-end load their ideology into our society, without the interference of real law, or reality for that matter.

Who are you Jack Layton?

 

[brihard]

I don't think that there would be any reasonable chance that any real dialogue would occur.  You've seen these clods time and time again in action.  They have a few trite phrases ("No Justice, No Peace"--like seriously.  WTF does that even mean?) and once you engage them logically, they go to the crap.  Said soldier would just get shouted down and berated.  Best case scenario, it's a waste of time.  Worst case scenario, the hippies would initiate a physical confrontation, and then turn on the cameras after the soldier defended himself. 
However, it would be an interesting exercise to invite a selected group to meet in a neutral location to engage in some point sharing.  Ask the leaders of these groups to show up, and then tape the meeting.  When they came up flat, you would have a laugh track that you could show for a long time (which would never make the MSM)

I always like to ask if they have any familiarity with UNSC resolution 1386 (authorizing ISAF) or any of the ones that followed up and extended it. It can be amusing watching mouths flap open and shut with no sound coming out when you start to quote actual resolutions and legislation.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I think attending one of those meetings would just reaffirm a members devotion to the military and the current mission.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I always like to ask if they have any familiarity with UNSC resolution 1386 (authorizing ISAF) or any of the ones that followed up and extended it.

Is that the one where they approved the construction of the Trans Afghan Pipeline?  :

 

[BKells]

I'll preface what I am about to say by admitting that I haven't read the last 7 pages of this thread. It was the title that drew my attention: "I guess democracy doesn't work...protests on Afghan mission."

The protests this past weekend are perfect evidence that our democracy works. I support the mission wholeheartedly, obviously considering I volunteered to deploy on it, but I would be very worried if no one was protesting it. Ordinary citizens must be active participants in political discourse if a democracy is to be effective. Civil debate, with contesting viewpoints, is necessary for a healthy democracy. No decision is ever going to please everyone, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for government in the first place; there will always be people upset with a decision that government makes. Freedom of the press, of expression, of association, and of peaceful assembly all guarantee our right to make public our displeasure with any decision taken by government. In my opinion, it is a noble civil duty to make oneself informed of the actions of government, analyze the actions, and decide whether to accept those actions or to register a complaint-- be it through writing one's MP, writing a letter to the editor, or taking to the streets to vocalize one's opinion.

The protests of the past weekend prove that  our democracy is quite healthy. Though one may disagree with the protestor's particular opinions, one shouldn't ridicule or minimize their complaints.  As long as citizens are engaged, be it through petitions or protests, our system is working. Be wary of the decision that isn't protested.

 

[JesseWZ]

make oneself informed of the actions of government

I know I am "sound biting" your post, and for the most part I agree with you. However when we still have folks asking us "How Iraq is?" I start to get cynical.

 

[Celticgirl]

In my opinion, it is a noble civil duty to make oneself informed of the actions of government, analyze the actions, and decide whether to accept those actions or to register a complaint-- be it through writing one's MP, writing a letter to the editor, or taking to the streets to vocalize one's opinion.

I agree with your points. However, from what I have seen and read about this latest batch of protests, the demonstrators appeared to be far from informed. They were protesting the war in Iraq, a war which Canada plays no role in whatsoever. Some have also been claiming that our soldiers are helping to steal oil and opium from Afghanistan, and saying that our presence there is unwanted. This sounds to me like conspiracy theories and fear mongering moreso than protesting. People can protest all they want. It's a democracy, so by all means, we all should have the right to do so. However, if you are going to protest, for heaven's sake, be INFORMED about the issues. Don't spread rumours and conspiracies as a way to gain support for your cause. Debate the REAL issues.

 

[George Wallace]

.......... Some have also been claiming that our soldiers are helping to steal oil and opium from Afghanistan, and saying that our presence there is unwanted. This sounds to me like conspiracy theories and fear mongering moreso than protesting. People can protest all they want. It's a democracy, so by all means, we all should have the right to do so. However, if you are going to protest, for heaven's sake, be INFORMED about the issues. Don't spread rumours and conspiracies as a way to gain support for your cause. Debate the REAL issues.

Well, in all honesty, if they are that 'thick' and don't do their research, then their ignorance will show to any who have done even the most minimal of research and their credibility drops well into the negative figures.  If that is what they want to portray, then let them.  Perhaps they are too thick as to not realize why people are going like this  : to them all the time.

 

[NL_engineer]

I always like to ask if they have any familiarity with UNSC resolution 1386 (authorizing ISAF) or any of the ones that followed up and extended it. It can be amusing watching mouths flap open and shut with no sound coming out when you start to quote actual resolutions and legislation.

But then you get the "its a government conspiracy" response; followed about why we should leave Iraq (when answered, they revert back to first point)  :

or thats what happened last time I tried, maybe you have been talking to the informed crowd  :

 

[Boxkicker]

Why has nobody very publicly reminded the NDP that the NATO mission is authorized under a UN Security Counsel resolution which calls on member nations to contribute troops to ISAF?

  They have but hey lets not confuse the issue with fact, every speach the PM has made lately states this, as did John Manley.

 

[a_majoor]

What would happen if you try to debate facts with the protesters:

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

OK, I've pruned this back to the original topic, for those of you whom have had your posts deleted I wasn't going to spend half the night trying to move posts around to the various ongoing threads on those very same conversations........find the subject and post there yourself if you are so inclined.
Bruce