I guess democracy doesn't work...protests on Afghan mission.

[aesop081]

http://www.swo.ctv.ca/news.php?id=1115

Well, I made the cut.......for a few seconds.

Hmm, all I see is green...

All i saw was Bruce's unshaven face  ;D

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Don't forget the weeks worth of debauchery.....its there also. >

 

[Richie]

Let's face it, some people just need something to protest. This paragraph from today's Globe and Mail is actually quite funny:

"And what began as an anti-seal hunt protest in Calgary quickly transformed into a rally against Canada's troops being in Afghanistan.

Fifteen minutes before the anti-war rally was scheduled to begin, a line of protesters held placards calling for an end to the seal hunt. Moments later, they swapped their signs and spoke out against the war."  <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080315.wafprot0315/BNStory/National/home">Link</a>

Like I say, they just gotta protest something!

A few thousand fools came out today and exercised their democratic right to protest against Canada helping the Afghan people; millions of other Canadians did not, we are the silent majority. 

 

[IntlBr]

I mayyyyyy have heckled the Guelph protest from my Residence Room today......  :-[

 

[armyvern]

http://www.swo.ctv.ca/news.php?id=1115

Well, I made the cut.......for a few seconds.

That's you!!?? And here I thought that you always had a big yellow feathery front to you. 

You know what to bring next time we get together for beers ... and it isn't yellow and feathery!!  ;D

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

A whole 60 people...woooooo....and Scott Taylor was there key note speaker if you can believe it!!
(Disclaimers and what not)

Marchers call for peace, not war
Halifax joins other communities protesting Iraq, Afghan conflicts
By CLARE MELLOR Staff Reporter
Sun. Mar 16 - 5:20 AM



Anti-war protesters march down Spring Garden Road in Halifax on Saturday. (Ingrid Bulmer / Staff)





Elizabeth Hudson believes that marching against war can change things.

"Just seeing people on the street doing this, I like to think it gets people thinking about it more," said the 18-year-old student at the University of King’s College.

"We get so used to (war). It has been going on for so long."

Ms. Hudson was one of about 60 people who ignored snow and wind Saturday and took part in an anti-war demonstration in Halifax. Chanting and holding placards denouncing "endless war," the protesters started their peaceful march at Victoria Park, taking it through Spring Garden Road’s shopping district.

Students, senior citizens and families took part in the rally organized by the Students Coalition Against War. Several other groups, including Voice of Women and Halifax Peace Coalition, also took part.

The rally was primarily a protest against the Iraq war — the fifth anniversary of the American invasion is March 19 — but many also spoke out against Canada’s participation in the Afghanistan mission.

Thousands of people protested across the country Saturday, after Thursday’s vote in the House of Commons extended Canada’s presence in Afghanistan to at least 2011.

Rallies were organized in 20 communities nationwide in a joint call for an end to Canada’s combat role in Afghanistan.

In Toronto, federal NDP Leader Jack Layton said Canada is better suited to be engaging in a peacekeeping mission under the United Nations, rather than fighting under NATO.

Eighty Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002.

"Citizens don’t realize that their government is taking them to a war with no goal and which is by definition a war with no end," said Sarah Clift, an instructor at King’s, who brought her four-year-old daughter, Tovah, to the Halifax rally.

"As a mom of a small child, I worry about the future of this country where an endless war can be waged with no goal," she said.

Rob Sangster, 19, an organizer with the Students Coalition Against War, said he worries about the welfare of his friends who have signed military contracts in order to get a university education.

"They will probably be in Afghanistan in a few years. I’m trying to talk a few of my friends out of this," he said.

Canada has spent $7.2 billion on the war on Afghanistan, with analysts predicting that the cost could eventually reach $22 billion, said Alex Khasnabish, a Dalhousie University anthropology and sociology professor, who spoke at the rally.

He produced figures comparing what governments spend on war to the amount dedicated to fighting poverty, homelessness and other social concerns.

"Washington spends a total of approximately $7 billion a year combating global warming; that’s just over two weeks’ worth of war," he said. "Only 10 per cent of this massive capital investment (in war) is actually going to the uniformed personnel on the ground in these countries. The rest goes directly to private contractors."

Scott Taylor, a former Canadian soldier who has covered the conflict in Afghanistan and Iraq, including a weekly column in The Chronicle Herald, applauded the group in Halifax for its effort in bringing attention to the Iraq war.

"I don’t think I could have ever foreseen in my life addressing a peace rally," said the publisher of the magazine Esprit de Corps. "(American soldiers) are being killed to the point where it is no longer news anymore. It’s just a matter of when is it going to end."

Ms. Hudson agreed the war is an unjustified one.

"They still haven’t given proper reason as to why they are still there or why they went in the first place," she said. "I think they should pull out before any more people get hurt or killed on both sides.

"I am against (Canada’s participation in) Afghanistan too. I don’t think we are doing what we said we were going to do. I think we are causing more harm that good."

With The Canadian Press

( cmellor@herald.ca)

 

[The Bread Guy]

http://www.swo.ctv.ca/news.php?id=1115

Well, I made the cut.......for a few seconds.

Well quoted!

 

[sgf]

A whole 60 people...woooooo....and Scott Taylor was there key note speaker if you can believe it!!
(Disclaimers and what not)

Marchers call for peace, not war
Halifax joins other communities protesting Iraq, Afghan conflicts
By CLARE MELLOR Staff Reporter
Sun. Mar 16 - 5:20 AM



Anti-war protesters march down Spring Garden Road in Halifax on Saturday. (Ingrid Bulmer / Staff)





Elizabeth Hudson believes that marching against war can change things.

"Just seeing people on the street doing this, I like to think it gets people thinking about it more," said the 18-year-old student at the University of King’s College.

"We get so used to (war). It has been going on for so long."

Ms. Hudson was one of about 60 people who ignored snow and wind Saturday and took part in an anti-war demonstration in Halifax. Chanting and holding placards denouncing "endless war," the protesters started their peaceful march at Victoria Park, taking it through Spring Garden Road’s shopping district.

Students, senior citizens and families took part in the rally organized by the Students Coalition Against War. Several other groups, including Voice of Women and Halifax Peace Coalition, also took part.

The rally was primarily a protest against the Iraq war — the fifth anniversary of the American invasion is March 19 — but many also spoke out against Canada’s participation in the Afghanistan mission.

Thousands of people protested across the country Saturday, after Thursday’s vote in the House of Commons extended Canada’s presence in Afghanistan to at least 2011.

Rallies were organized in 20 communities nationwide in a joint call for an end to Canada’s combat role in Afghanistan.

In Toronto, federal NDP Leader Jack Layton said Canada is better suited to be engaging in a peacekeeping mission under the United Nations, rather than fighting under NATO.

Eighty Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002.

"Citizens don’t realize that their government is taking them to a war with no goal and which is by definition a war with no end," said Sarah Clift, an instructor at King’s, who brought her four-year-old daughter, Tovah, to the Halifax rally.

"As a mom of a small child, I worry about the future of this country where an endless war can be waged with no goal," she said.

Rob Sangster, 19, an organizer with the Students Coalition Against War, said he worries about the welfare of his friends who have signed military contracts in order to get a university education.

"They will probably be in Afghanistan in a few years. I’m trying to talk a few of my friends out of this," he said.

Canada has spent $7.2 billion on the war on Afghanistan, with analysts predicting that the cost could eventually reach $22 billion, said Alex Khasnabish, a Dalhousie University anthropology and sociology professor, who spoke at the rally.

He produced figures comparing what governments spend on war to the amount dedicated to fighting poverty, homelessness and other social concerns.

"Washington spends a total of approximately $7 billion a year combating global warming; that’s just over two weeks’ worth of war," he said. "Only 10 per cent of this massive capital investment (in war) is actually going to the uniformed personnel on the ground in these countries. The rest goes directly to private contractors."

Scott Taylor, a former Canadian soldier who has covered the conflict in Afghanistan and Iraq, including a weekly column in The Chronicle Herald, applauded the group in Halifax for its effort in bringing attention to the Iraq war.

"I don’t think I could have ever foreseen in my life addressing a peace rally," said the publisher of the magazine Esprit de Corps. "(American soldiers) are being killed to the point where it is no longer news anymore. It’s just a matter of when is it going to end."

Ms. Hudson agreed the war is an unjustified one.

"They still haven’t given proper reason as to why they are still there or why they went in the first place," she said. "I think they should pull out before any more people get hurt or killed on both sides.

"I am against (Canada’s participation in) Afghanistan too. I don’t think we are doing what we said we were going to do. I think we are causing more harm that good."

With The Canadian Press

( cmellor@herald.ca)

60 isnt bad given that there was a snow storm during the day and it was also the end of March Break, lots of people still away.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

SGF I take it that you were talking tongue in cheek when you said that 60 wasn't bad? That probably included the press and babes in arms. I am a child of the 60's and grew up watching people turn out in the thousands for protest marches. This isn't even a slim minority, this is fringe element.  There are over 8000 students at St Mary's and somewhere near 20000 at Dal. We used to go just out of curiosity when I was at Universitiy. It isn't March break there they had their Reading Week in Feb.

 

[sgf]

no I was serious. When in Halifax were there protest marches in the thousands? It certainly was March Break in NS last week, lots of parents were away or just getting back.

 

[Celticgirl]

Considering the fact that the HRM has a population of about 400,000+, 60 people certainly is a very small turnout. I saw one protester on the news saying that "the majority of Canadians" were against the mission (who knows which one he was referring to...Iraqistan, I guess)...so where was this "majority"?
March Break and a little snow can't explain away the other 399, 940+ people. 

 

[ballz]

Iraqistan

Hahaha that just made my day.

You can't win when it comes to stats and polls and all that stuff with the left-wing looney tunes. If it supports what they believe, its legit, if it doesn't, there's some conspiracy behind it as to how the media (yes apparently the media is on our side....) and government manipulated it, and so it's not legit. My roommate is a left-winger and when he asked for proof that the majority of Canadians support the mission, and I offered polls as a source of evidence, he declined the offer to look because they were "tampered with."

 

[sgf]

Considering the fact that the HRM has a population of about 400,000+, 60 people certainly is a very small turnout. I saw one protester on the news saying that "the majority of Canadians" were against the mission (who knows which one he was referring to...Iraqistan, I guess)...so where was this "majority"?
March Break and a little snow can't explain away the other 399, 940+ people. 

Heres the majority  - at least according to Angus Reid

Many adults in Canada believe their government should not extend its current mandate in Afghanistan, according to a poll by Angus Reid Strategies. 58 per cent of respondents disagree with allowing the mission to continue beyond February 2009.

In addition, 61 per cent think the current government has not effectively explained the mission in Afghanistan.

more

Polling Data

Do you agree or disagree with this statement? - Canada should extend the mission in Afghanistan beyond February 2009

 Feb. 2008
Dec. 2007
Jul. 2007

Agree
36%
28%
16%

Disagree
58%
61%
63%

Not sure
7%
11%
22%


Do you agree or disagree with this statement? - The Harper government has effectively explained the mission in Afghanistan

 Feb. 2008
Dec. 2007
Jul. 2007

Agree
32%
31%
19%

Disagree
61%
60%
60%

Not sure
8%
9%
21%

and the link is

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/29855

 

[Celticgirl]

Angus Reed Poll (from SGF's link above)
Methodology: Online interviews with 1,018 Canadian adults, conducted from Jan. 31 to Feb. 1, 2007.

CTV Poll
There are protests this weekend demanding an end to the military mission in Afghanistan. What do you think should happen next?
 
Stay the course  6111 votes    (61 %)

End combat role in Kandahar  1841 votes    (18 %)

Withdraw completely  2077 votes    (21 %)

  Total Votes: 10029

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/HTMLTemplate?&tf=ctv/generic/hubs/ctvNewsSub.html&cf=ctv/generic/hubs/ctvNews.cfg&id=81075&pollid=81075&save=_save&show_vote_always=no&poll=CTVNewsTopStories&hub=TopStories&subhub=VoteResult

Ten times as many people responded to the CTV poll and given the obscurity of Angus Reed Polls, I would venture a guess that the CTV poll provided a greater cross-section of respondents.

 

[PMedMoe]

Hey Bruce, great to see they (the media) at least were interested in getting the other side of the story.  I noticed in the article below the video in your link that they state 80 soldiers and a diplomat have been killed.  Wrong again, as usual.  :

From the Halifax newspaper article:

Elizabeth Hudson believes that marching against war can change things.

"Just seeing people on the street doing this, I like to think it gets people thinking about it more," said the 18-year-old student at the University of King’s College.

"We get so used to (war). It has been going on for so long."

And I bet Christmas seems a long way off to you as well, Ms. Hudson.

 

[MarkOttawa]

How to report an anti-war demo--compare these two news stories and let us know your reaction (usual copyright disclaimer):

1) Ottawa Sun:

Protesters won't take war vote lying down
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAndRegion/2008/03/16/5018031-sun.html

More than 500 demonstrators stormed Ottawa streets as part of a massive antiwar protest in the aftermath of a controversial House of Commons vote to extend Canada's military mission in Afghanistan by two years.

Part of a global day of action that saw demonstrations in nearly 600 cities worldwide, yesterday's march began at the National Gallery of Canada, where speakers from the Canadian Peace Alliance and the Canadian Labour Congress whipped the crowd into a frenzy amid rallying cries of "End it, don't extend it."

The Green Party's Qais Ghanem and the NDP's Libby Davies and Francoise Boivin blasted Prime Minister Stephen Harper and had equally harsh words for Liberal Leader Stephane Dion for propping up the Conservative government in the confidence vote.

"Just because most Liberal MPs are more concerned about their electoral fortunes than the lives of Afghan civilians or Canadian soldiers does not give the Harper government a mandate for more war," said Christine Jones, co-chairwoman of the Canadian Peace Alliance.

DRAMATIC 'DIE IN'

Protesters staged a dramatic "die in" in front of the U.S. Embassy -- dropping "dead" in the street -- before marching on Parliament Hill chanting antiwar slogans and waving placards emblazoned with "Canada Out of Afghanistan," "No More War," and "Liberals, Conservatives: Same Old Story."

The march was part of a nationwide effort that saw thousands fill the streets in 20 communities across the country to urge the federal government to bring home Canadian troops and revert to a peacekeeping role in the Middle East and Afghanistan.

Yesterday also marked the fifth anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

"This peace movement is going to continue to grow and it will stay strong until the troops come home," said protest organizer Dylan Penner of the Canadian Peace Alliance. "The vast majority of Canadians -- as many as 80% in some recent polls -- are opposed to Canada's role in Afghanistan."

Organizers said yesterday's massive turnout signalled a "turning point" in public sentiment toward the war.

"The size of today's protest indicates the resurgence of the peace movement," said Penner.

Note at the link the photo that took up the whole front page.

2) Ottawa Citizen:

500 join Ottawa anti-war demonstration
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=734c135e-3100-49c3-a7bc-b1979610e246

Last week's Parliamentary vote to extend Canada's mission in Afghanistan to 2011 didn't diminish the enthusiasm of anti-war protesters at an Ottawa demonstration planned to coincide with numerous events around the globe -- it only made them yell louder, organizers say.

About 500 peace activists rallied at the National Gallery, marched by Parliament Hill and held a "die-in" in front of the U.S. Embassy as a part of the World Against War day of action. Ottawa organizer Dylan Penner said the day was marked in 22 cities across Canada and 600 throughout the world to mark the fifth anniversary of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

Mr. Penner, a member of the Canadian Peace Alliance, said the vote to extend the Afghanistan mission to 2011 has only made the peace movement stronger.

"I think if anything, people are more outraged," he said.

Mr. Penner said polls have shown a majority of Canadians wanted the troops out of Afghanistan by 2009, and the federal government just "isn't listening to the people."

About 2,500 Canadian soldiers are in southern Afghanistan, where Taliban insurgents have staged an increasing number of attacks on Afghan and NATO-led forces. Since the mission began in 2002, 80 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed.

According to an Ipsos Reid poll released in late January, 50 per cent of Canadians support a combat mission, and 37 per cent favour a February 2009 pullout. Mr. Penner said other polls have shown that 80 per cent of Canadians were opposed to extending the mission beyond 2009.

Chris Assad, president of the Coalition of Canadian Arab Professionals and Community Associations, spoke at yesterday's rally. Last night, he told the Citizen that the peace movement is especially getting stronger with the youth who are coming of age during their country's involvement overseas.

"They're listening to all the news about people dying on both sides and wondering, 'What the hell is going on, what are we there for?'"

Mr. Assad said the Afghan death toll since the occupation began is at about 50,000, 75 per cent of that number civilian casualties.

"The writing is on the wall," he said. "This is not a winnable war."

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Pte.Butt]

Why don't they protest during the Cold Winter months. As opposed to the when it is warmer.

Because, that would make sense, something these hippie's don't have the knack of just yet.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

"And what began as an anti-seal hunt protest in Calgary quickly transformed into a rally against Canada's troops being in Afghanistan.
Fifteen minutes before the anti-war rally was scheduled to begin, a line of protesters held placards calling for an end to the seal hunt. Moments later, they swapped their signs and spoke out against the war."

I am SO going to go seal hunting when I get back from Afghanistan

I don't have a huge issue with the hippie clowns protesting.  They will always be around and are a constant. 
What is aggravating is how the media pursues such insignificant displays.  That CTV reporter IMO had a bias against the CF in his tone and content.  Same as the one article that Milnews posted.  If most of Canada supports this effort (and they appear to), why does the MSM insist on trying to ride it down?  To whom do they think they are serving? And why for that matter?  Doubtless, sensational sells but I have to imagine that there is lots of sensational positive reporting available too.  Decisive battles.  Reconstruction efforts.  Countless human triumph stories from Afghan families made better.  And I know for a fact the stories are out there, what I don't understand is why they can't get air/print time.  Canada loves it's soldiers, and likes to hear stories about the good we are doing.  I would think there would be good money in promoting us.  ???

 

[Jarnhamar]

One of the most interesting points I see raised is that this is an illegal war in Afghanistan when it's been plainly pointed out, we are there at the behest of the UN. I actually wouldn't mind attending one of these rallies just to see if they are completely out to lunch or have a head on their shoulders.
If a CF soldier attends one of these protest in a purely observational role, would he face any sort of disciplinary action?
Mind you I don't support their protest at all. I think they are 100 misinformed and while they may have good intentions, if they TRUELY realised what abandoning the people of Afghanistan back to the Taliban meant they wouldn't be so keen on protesting.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

If a CF soldier attends one of these protest in a purely observational role, would he face any sort of disciplinary action?

I don't think that there would be any reasonable chance that any real dialogue would occur.  You've seen these clods time and time again in action.  They have a few trite phrases ("No Justice, No Peace"--like seriously.  WTF does that even mean?) and once you engage them logically, they go to the shit.  Said soldier would just get shouted down and berated.  Best case scenario, it's a waste of time.  Worst case scenario, the hippies would initiate a physical confrontation, and then turn on the cameras after the soldier defended himself. 
However, it would be an interesting exercise to invite a selected group to meet in a neutral location to engage in some point sharing.  Ask the leaders of these groups to show up, and then tape the meeting.  When they came up flat, you would have a laugh track that you could show for a long time (which would never make the MSM)