Hybrid Electric Vehicles

[Colin Parkinson]

So…almost entirely clean energy?

BC Hydro applies to leave some Site C construction debris to be flooded over

Hydro: Leaving up to 45 structures behind could be easier on the environment than removing them

www.vicnews.com

Most of those structures were discussed in the Environmental Panel Review if anyone bothered to read the 60,000+ pages........ Some are earthen structures, although the most unusual is the Halfway river highway bridge, which is a substantial bit and was surprising. I guess transportation and disposal costs were to high. Will make some interesting fish habitat and deep enough not to interfere with any boats on the new waterway.

 

[Kirkhill]

Don't forget EV cars are still heavily reliant on petrochemicals, they just don't burn gas. Even if you get rid of all the ICEs, you still need oil for the vehicles and infrastructure.

Some interesting things happening with turning genetically modified bacteria into making the base chemicals though, so you could 'grow' oil instead of extracting it, but not sure if it would have the same mix for things like tar (which is a by product from refining into lighter oils).

Where do you get the Carbon for Carbon Fibre? Where do you get the Greenhouse Gas for Greenhouses? Where do you get the Petroleum for Petroleum Jelly?

 

[Kirkhill]

Meanwhile, at General Motors....

GM to invest more than $1 billion to produce new heavy-duty pickups​

KEY POINTS

• General Motors plans to invest more than $1 billion in two Michigan plants for production of next-generation heavy-duty trucks, the company said Monday.
• Despite GM’s commitment to exclusively offer all-electric vehicles by 2035, the company continues to invest in traditional vehicles such as the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra heavy-duty pickups.
• The notably profitable trucks are in high demand.

DETROIT – General Motors plans to invest more than $1 billion in two Michigan plants for production of next-generation heavy-duty trucks, the company said Monday.

The investment includes $788 million to prepare its Flint Assembly plant to build the heavy-duty gas and diesel trucks. Another $233 million will be invested in the automaker’s Flint Metal Center to support production of the vehicles. Both plants are located in mid-Michigan.

Despite GM’s commitment to exclusively offer all-electric vehicles by 2035, the company continues to invest in traditional vehicles such as the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra heavy-duty pickups.

The notably profitable trucks are in high demand, and sales are needed to assist in funding the automaker’s investments in EVs.
A GM spokesman said construction related to the investments is scheduled to begin during the fourth quarter. He declined to disclose details and timing of the next-generation pickups.

In 2022, GM reported sales of its heavy-duty pickups increased 38% compared to the prior year, amounting to nearly 288,000 trucks sold.
The investment announcement comes ahead of contract negotiations between the Detroit automakers, including GM, and the United Auto Workers union this summer.

GM to invest more than $1 billion to produce new heavy-duty pickups

Despite GM's commitment to exclusively offer all-electric vehicles by 2035, the company continues to invest in traditional vehicles such as heavy-duty pickups.

www.cnbc.com

The electric vehicle concept makes some sense for the yellow dots on the map. For the people of Vancouver, North and West, for the people of Mount Royal, for the 2.8 million people of Toronto perhaps for cities in 100,000 or larger range.

But for those of us that live beyond Hope, but still have access to the highway system, the internal combustion engine is still going to make more sense. That may be part of an electric hybrid with an onboard generator and electric drives instead of gears. It may be powered with LNG instead of gasoline or diesel, but pickup trucks with IC engines are still going to start making sense once you cross the Port Mann Bridge, some place south of Barrie and once Mount Royal disappears in your rear view mirror.




Note - Discussion of tails wagging dogs

Toronto is Canada's most populous city we are told. Yet urban Toronto only holds 2.8 million Canadians, or 7% of the population, and even there that conurbation bounded by Steeles Avenue and the Rouge and Credit valleys has a population density about 1/3 of that of Central London in the UK. To get to the oft-quoted 10 million you have to extend the concept of Toronto beyond the GTA, beyond the Golden Horseshoe to the Extended Golden Horseshoe and encompass the people of Fort Erie, Wasaga and Peterborough. I can't speak for the people of the Niagara but I can say that the people of Peterborough living 1 to 2 hours from Toronto City Hall, depending on traffic and GO transit availability, do not consider themselves Torontonians or even urbanites. Outboard motors and Skidoos are probably higher on their priority lists than electric vehicles.

If we look at what a European would consider an urban centre, or even a New Yorker, you are probably looking at less than 20% of the total population of Canada.

That is also why the Train couldn't compete with the car or even the plane. It couldn't compete with the speed of the plane and the operators didn't have to stop at every town along the way. And it couldn't find the number of passengers necessary to fund the tracks and infrastructure outside of those major centres.

Now moving freight from Vancouver to Halifax in competition to the Panama Canal.... that is a separate calculation. And the locomotives hauling those trains have been Hybrids, diesel-electrics, for a very long time.

 

[lenaitch]

Now moving freight from Vancouver to Halifax in competition to the Panama Canal.... that is a separate calculation. And the locomotives hauling those trains have been Hybrids, diesel-electrics, for a very long time.

Infrastructure notwithstanding, change is being explored:

CP’s Hydrogen Locomotive Program Advances - Railway Age

Bilton Welding and Manufacturing Ltd. is wrapping up work on the second of three hydrogen fuel cell-powered freight locomotives for Canadian Pacific (CP), the Class I confirmed March 7. The first, currently

www.railwayage.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/hydrogen-train-quebec-city-1.6888891

Hydrogen on track to replace diesel locomotives

Hydrogen will likely replace diesel-powered railway locomotives wherever full electrification is difficult or too expensive as it offers an emission-free, quiet alternative that can be economically competitive, say developers.

www.reuters.com

 

[Good2Golf]

I’d love to see chemical electrical storage passed by quickly on the way towards hydrogen…sadly Greta’s travailing young colleagues in Africa will be digging cobalt for quite some time to come.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Greta appears to be pivoting now that her doomsday date came and went without a blip. Now that her climate change expertise has been shattered, she needs something to keep her relevant to the chirping classes. A la Al Gore, the inventor of the interwebz

 

[Quirky]

BMW offering a hydrogen alternative.

Motor Mouth: BMW's math shows we need hydrogen cars

The company behind the Ultimate Driving Machine makes a solid case for fuel cells as an alternative to — not a replacement for! — battery power

driving.ca

I particularly like the no affect of range in the cold.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

There are currently 4 Hydrogen stations in the Lower mainland and one on the island. That limits your car's viability at the moment. all those stations seem to be funded by government grants and collocated with gas and electric recharging.

 

[Good2Golf]

There are currently 4 Hydrogen stations in the Lower mainland and one on the island. That limits your car's viability at the moment. all those stations seem to be funded by government grants and collocated with gas and electric recharging.

Sounds like how things started with EVs.

On the positive side, high-pressure H2 doesn’t take long to fill completely.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

 

[Brad Sallows]

12 years is still a long way off in vehicle ownership terms. No point stopping production until production absolutely has to stop. And before that, reality might bite hard enough to force the date to be pushed off.

 

[Kirkhill]

BMW offering a hydrogen alternative.

Motor Mouth: BMW's math shows we need hydrogen cars

The company behind the Ultimate Driving Machine makes a solid case for fuel cells as an alternative to — not a replacement for! — battery power

driving.ca

I particularly like the no affect of range in the cold.

I'd buy it.

Subject to dekinking and fuel availability.

The only thing I would want to add would be studs to my winter tires.

I everybody is releasing water on to the roads at 40 below we might want to rethink studs.

 

[Kirkhill]

And here's a thought -

The conversion could start fairly soon. Especially if some competition and market forces were allowed to be brought to bear.

Gas stations already sell multiple grades of gasoline, diesel and liquid propane.

Fuel cells can operate on hydrogen, methane/natural gas and propane.

Fuel cells themselves are a relatively proven technology and the electric drive train is also well seasoned by now.

Let the market, the gas stations and the drivers, decide on which is the better economic solution. Give them a choice at the service station among

Blue Hydrogen
Green Hydrogen
Methane
Bio Gas
Natural Gas
Propane Gas

The technologies are similar as is the infrastructure. The market is well placed to decide if the additional costs associated with producing and containing Hydrogen are worth the Carbon emission difference among C3 propane, C1 methane/bio-gas/natural gas and C0 hydrogen.

As hydrogen production, storage and transport knowledge improves theoretically the risks and costs would be expected to drop and more drivers would switch towards the C0 fuel.

In the meantime fuel cell drive trains could be on the road within the next five years operating on existing propane and natural gas infrastructure.

I like it.

Thanks @Quirky.

 

[Kirkhill]

12 years is still a long way off in vehicle ownership terms. No point stopping production until production absolutely has to stop. And before that, reality might bite hard enough to force the date to be pushed off.

The one thing that should NOT be done is impose the change by government mandate. Just open up the market to new opportunities and let things progress from there.

 

[Good2Golf]

The one thing that should NOT be done is impose the change by government mandate. Just open up the market to new opportunities and let things progress from there.

…but how would the Government pump up its operational budget to let it run bigger deficits and pretend it’s doing it for the benefit of the planet?

 

[Kirkhill]

BMW offering a hydrogen alternative.

Motor Mouth: BMW's math shows we need hydrogen cars

The company behind the Ultimate Driving Machine makes a solid case for fuel cells as an alternative to — not a replacement for! — battery power

driving.ca

I particularly like the no affect of range in the cold.

Further to -

And in re @lenaitch on transitioning locomotives

Bus Transit - Fuel Cell Electric Buses | Ballard Power

Ballard Power delivers fuel cell vehicles and buses that provide affordable zero-emission transportation with no compromise in service and operation.

www.ballard.com

#PoweredByBallard: PESA's New Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

PESA has introduced the first certified hydrogen-powered shunting locomotive for Europe - the SM42-6Dn prototype - powered by two Ballard 85kW fuel cells.

blog.ballard.com

Hydrogen bus pilot brings hope for a new energy economy in Canadian city

The city of Edmonton will soon be home to a hydrogen bus. More hydrogen buses are slated for operation on Canadian roads, with one hydrogen bus pilot to begin

www.hydrogenfuelnews.com

Balllard of Vancouver has been in the game for a long while. I read their "Powering the Future" in 1999 when it was published. Then it referred to Ballard's factory operations in 1989. That means that they have 34 years of production experience now. Chretien got his photo taken at the factory in a campaign photo op IIRC. They were considered as an AIP partner for Canadian subs back then.

 

[Kirkhill]

We could even start laying Hydrogen pipelines to tide water right now.... A little bit of natural gas going through them won't hurt them.

 

[Kirkhill]

And finally...

Stockwell Day and Gordon Campbell - October 2, 2009

PREMIER & MINISTER DAY WELCOME BC’S FIRST HYDROGEN BUS

VANCOUVER – Premier Gordon Campbell and Minister of International Trade and Minister for the Asia-Pacific Gateway Stockwell Day celebrated the arrival of the first bus of what will become the world’s largest single hydrogen fuel cell bus fleet in Vancouver.

archive.news.gov.bc.ca

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The one thing that should NOT be done is impose the change by government mandate. Just open up the market to new opportunities and let things progress from there.

The market should drive the innovation. If the market is too saturated and expensive, it's up to the manufacturers to sort it out. Not for consumers to meet the profit line. Governments need to keep their noses completely out of it. No rebates with my tax money. No bonuses/ loans/ bribes to industry with my tax money. And no mandates to satisfy their crony lobbyists or political agendas.

 

[Kirkhill]

The market should drive the innovation. If the market is too saturated and expensive, it's up to the manufacturers to sort it out. Not for consumers to meet the profit line. Governments need to keep their noses completely out of it. No rebates with my tax money. No bonuses/ loans/ bribes to industry with my tax money. And no mandates to satisfy their crony lobbyists or political agendas.

Kindofish?

There is a role for the government in the pricing debate between consumer and supplier. But I agree it best be a light touch here and there and not a heavy hand and a jack boot.