Honours & Awards (merged)

[Eye In The Sky]

Other partner organizations did not necessarily apply the same standards as the CAF.  In fact, each MP received an allocation to award as they saw fit.  One MP even gave one to a convicted criminal - while they were in prison!

Just when I thought I couldn't see the QJ as 'less suited for wear with military decorations and medals'...

  Nevertheless, this should not detract from the CAF awards.

I laughed a little when I read that, because I thought you HAD to be joking.  8)

 

[Pusser]

It's all a matter of who's wearing something.  Anybody can wear a mini-skirt - doesn't mean everybody should.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If criminals were given the same medal, intentionally or not it greatly devalues it and takes it right out of the 'honour and/or award' category (for me). 

I'm not a fan of those types of medals, overall.  I knew a guy who had a CD, Canada 125 and the first 2 of the QJs.  To Joe Public, he looked like he'd 'been a few places'.  Which, of course, he had not.

 

[CountDC]

I laughed and shook my head at the same time when they came in at the unit I was at as I was handling them.  Only saw one that I would see as based on merit.

 

[Rick Goebel]

If criminals were given the same medal, intentionally or not it greatly devalues it and takes it right out of the 'honour and/or award' category (for me). 

There are criminals and criminals.  The criminals given the Jubilee medals were criminals of conscience, with whom you might or might not agree.  This article, http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mp-defends-giving-queen-s-jubilee-medal-to-jailed-woman-1.1198998, mentions a comparison with Martin Luther King Jr, which I think is extreme, but he was another case of someone jailed for peaceful protest activities.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The criminals given the Jubilee medals were criminals of conscience

: They are criminals because they broke a law and ignored court orders.  *harassing women seeking abortions* isn't 'award nomination criteria, is it?  FML. 

There are 2 types of criminals in the little world I exist in;  ones who are guilty and were found guilty of breaking the law, and ones who were innocent and erroneously found guilty of breaking the law.

Neither of the 2 in the article appear to be in the latter category and there are many law-abiding citizens who should have received this 'medal' over those 2.  You can't go around breaking laws without consequence in this country, and you shouldn't be given a gong for it when you do.  rly:

 

[Blackadder1916]

If criminals were given the same medal, intentionally or not it greatly devalues it and takes it right out of the 'honour and/or award' category (for me). 

While I can see "some" legitimacy in Rick's "criminals of conscience" argument (though I most vehemently disagree with the point of view and actions of the two criminal recipients), what devalues the award is not the two criminals who received it but the criteria that automatically gave the same medal (along with the Golden Jubilee and Centennial of Saskatchewan medals) to the Member of Parliament who nominated them in the first place.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

You can't go around breaking laws without consequence in this country, and you shouldn't be given a gong for it when you do.  rly:

So no one with a conduit sheet should ever receive a medal?

 

[Rifleman62]

You also get an Conduct Sheet for National Awards such as ORMM, Valour, etc.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

You also get an Conduct Sheet for National Awards such as ORMM, Valour, etc.

Yup,  I have both types myself.  I was using the colloquial term

 

[dapaterson]

So no one with a conduit sheet should ever receive a medal?

To be fair, in this case it would be like giving someone the MSM in recognition of a conviction under s 90 of the NDA.

Yup,  I have both types myself.  I was using the colloquial term

You mean... conduct sheet entries for awards and conduct sheet entries for summary trials or court martials?  (I'm assuming plural for both )

 

[PPCLI Guy]

To be fair, in this case it would be like giving someone the MSM in recognition of a conviction under s 90 of the NDA.

Fair one - I was apple v orange ing

Speaking of pedantic......

You mean... conduct sheet entries for awards and conduct sheet entries for summary trials or court martials? courts martial(I'm assuming plural for both )

I admit to at least one award and at least one summary trial...... 8)

 

[dapaterson]

I admit to at least one award and at least one summary trial...... 8)

So far this week 8) ?

 

[PPCLI Guy]

So far this week 8) ?

Even I can't earn an award while home on leave....

 

[dapaterson]

Even I can't earn an award while home on leave....

Slacker.



So only a summary trial this week. Gotcha

 

[jollyjacktar]

So no one with a conduit sheet should ever receive a medal?

No, because electricians are sketchy. 

Seriously though, no, not for a medal which is supposed to be merit based.  If it was demerit based on the other hand...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So no one with a conduit sheet should ever receive a medal?

a Conduct sheet may negatively effect some decorations, such as the CD, based on the criteria:

The Canadian Forces' Decoration is awarded to officers and Non-Commissioned Members of the Canadian Forces who have completed twelve years of service. The decoration is awarded to all ranks, who have a good record of conduct.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

No, because electricians are sketchy. 

:facepalm:  This seems to be my week for humble pie....

Seriously though, no, not for a medal which is supposed to be merit based.  If it was demerit based on the other hand...

So a conduct sheet should preclude one from nomination for the Order of Military Merit?  Or the Meritorious Service Medal or Cross? (understanding that the former recognises a "body of work", whereas the latter is usually time, function or incident specific).

That would suggest, amongst other things, that we do not believe in the corrective powers of the military justice system....or the capacity of members to evolve / grow.

 

[Lumber]

That would suggest, amongst other things, that we do not believe in the corrective powers of the military justice system....or the capacity of members to evolve / grow.

Correct. In this day and age, once you've said or done something, a picture is painted describing your character and that becomes fixed and cannot be changed.

Well, at least it is in civilian life.

I like to believe our troops can evolve, and that we do recognize their growth. How many chiefs do you know who are amazing leaders but who have rap sheets? I know a few.

 

[jollyjacktar]

:facepalm:  This seems to be my week for humble pie....

So a conduct sheet should preclude one from nomination for the Order of Military Merit?  Or the Meritorious Service Medal or Cross? (understanding that the former recognises a "body of work", whereas the latter is usually time, function or incident specific).

That would suggest, amongst other things, that we do not believe in the corrective powers of the military justice system....or the capacity of members to evolve / grow.

I was thinking of the Jubliee in particular.  It was "supposed" to be awardrd on merit, l think if you're to receive it your conduct should be clean.
If you want to recognize someone for growing then perhaps a "most improved" award of some sort should be created.