Homophobic Tory apologized for his remarks

[sgf]

I would hazard a guess that being subjected to the verbal abuse from Lukiwski is scandalous  and hurtful to a lot of Canadians.  There is also a financial concern, in the areas of SSM, regarding pension and health benefits. It may be small potatoes to a lot of people but there is a real concern.

 

[stegner]

Luikiwiski was not a private citizen.  Saskatchewan tax dollars paid his salary at that time because he worked for a party which receives its funding from the Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan.  I guess we can consider this a scandal now because money was misused.  Apparently for some anything that does not involve money is not a real scandal :

The funny thing about the sponsorship scandal is that the actual amount of money missing was far less than 40 and that the Gomery Commission cost way more than that.  You state some pretty obvious Liberal scandals that have already been beaten to death on this site in numerous threads and have amounted in no criminal charges for any Liberal politician.  Let's not make this another one of those threads. 

 

[midget-boyd91]

I guess we can consider this a scandal now because money was misused.  Apparently for some anything that does not involve money is not a real scandal :

I wouldn't call this a scandal, I'd go ahead and call it human. I'm sure that just about everybody on here, myself included, has said some things they they would normally not say when either joking around with friends or drinking, or both. Jokes are a part of human nature, not scandalous behavior. Anybody who has heard Mr.Lulkiwiski's apology could probably see that it was heartfelt, and he felt genuinely ashamed of his twenty-year-old remarks said in jest in a private party (that's a party with balloons, not politics).

Humans say things. Humans say mean things from time to time. Humans do not always mean what they say.

Midget

 

[stegner]

I can agree to some degree.  Though drunk or not these comments represent some underlying belief and go further than the average drunken your momma comment.  Drunkenness is not an excuse for racism or those kind of comments.  What should be kept in mind is that these comments were made in a public place: the Saskatchewan Legislature.  I suspect that any young private saying something like this in view of the public would be punished.  Heck were some recruit to say something like this in the CF interview process  his/her application will be rejected.    I am by no means pro gay marriage, but I believe that fundamentally humans must respect one another. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It.....was......16......years.......ago!!!!!!!

Do we have to dredge up all the nasty things said, by ALL, politicians for the last 16 years? If we did, I'm sure we could find a lot worse, from all parties, that would make this look like the simple mistake it was. No one is defending him, he made a mistake, when times were different, he's apologized. Let it go already.

If people insist on blowing this out of proportion, wait until the NDP or liberals get caught. They'll get it back in spades. People in glass houses and all that.

The persistence in this is becoming childish.

 

[midget-boyd91]

I suspect that any young private saying something like this in view of the public would be punished.  Heck were some recruit to say something like this in the CF interview process  his/her application will be rejected.

True enough, but to keep with the new recruit analogy, and sticking my devil's advocate hat on, imagine this scenario:

Two good friends are sitting in a waiting room after an interview by a gay soldier. After the interview is complete, one friend says in jest to the other "Man, what a fa***t."

  Twenty years passes and the recruit who made the comment leads a very successful and very respectful career. The recruit, who has now become a RSM has made an enemy or two over the years, and there are some who have a grudge to dig at.

  After digging through endless security tapes from when the RSM was beginning his career, or just accidentally falling upon it, one of these disgruntled people finds a tape in which the RSM calls whomever is doing the interview a 'fa***t.'

  This tape is brought to the Regiment's Commanding Officer, who after viewing knows full well that it is an attempt to blacken the image of this very respectful RSM by a disgruntled individual. What action, if any, should the CO take?


Well, that's about enough 'what if' for me. I've already stated my opinion on the matter: He was a human then, and still is. He made a very humane apology, and remains to be human.   

Midget

 

[stegner]

Uncle midget boyd. Good point.  Though, the CO should ask the RSM to apologize to the soldier he disparaged, if going along with your analogy, they know who the person was.  Never hurts to apologize even 16 years later.  There is no statute of limitations on good manners.     

 

[sgf]

It.....was......16......years.......ago!!!!!!!

Do we have to dredge up all the nasty things said, by ALL, politicians for the last 16 years? If we did, I'm sure we could find a lot worse, from all parties, that would make this look like the simple mistake it was. No one is defending him, he made a mistake, when times were different, he's apologized. Let it go already.

If people insist on blowing this out of proportion, wait until the NDP or liberals get caught. They'll get it back in spades. People in glass houses and all that.

The persistence in this is becoming childish.

Actually just three short years ago Lukiwski said this:

Conservative MP Tom Lukiwski says the toxic anti-gay comments he made 17 years ago weren't really his views, but he warned less than three years ago that same-sex marriage could lead to polygamy and social decline.
"I firmly believe that by passing this legislation, we start on a very slippery slope which could affect societal change in a very adverse way," he told the House of Commons on June 28, 2005.

Those comments, combined with the taped comments lead me to believe he hasnt changed that much.

 

[Trinity]

Conservative MP Tom Lukiwski says the toxic anti-gay comments he made 17 years ago weren't really his views, but he warned less than three years ago that same-sex marriage could lead to polygamy and social decline.
"I firmly believe that by passing this legislation, we start on a very slippery slope which could affect societal change in a very adverse way," he told the House of Commons on June 28, 2005.

Actually just three short years ago Lukiwski said this:

Those comments, combined with the taped comments lead me to believe he hasnt changed that much.

He's not equating  gays and lesbians to Polygamy and social decline.  I Believe he's saying if we allow (same sex) marriage for one special interest group
then there is nothing stopping  other special interest groups which may have questionable moral character to ask for the same.  If we make allowances
for one we might be stuck to make allowances for others.

There is nothing homophobic about his remark.  Nothing says anti gay.  As pointed out by someone else, many MP's voted against it on both sides.  I'm sure this was a serious concearn
at the time.

edit: lack of clear thought whilst typing

 

[sgf]

All good point, however I disagree! Now if this guy would do some work with the gay community, attend a few gay parades, volunteer to work with Aids victims, I may be more inclined to buy into his apology.

 

[Trinity]

All good point, however I disagree! Now if this guy would do some work with the gay community, attend a few gay parades, volunteer to work with Aids victims, I may be more inclined to buy into his apology.

To be honest, I don't think he cares to sell this apology to you, or me or to others.

Honestly, think about it.  If he does do what you suggest, would you honestly believe he has changed his mind or would this
just be a stunt to pretend he's reformed?  Most people would call it a media/political stunt.

It's a no win situation whether he does or doesn't make a show of apology. 

 

[midget-boyd91]

Now if this guy would do some work with the gay community, attend a few gay parades, volunteer to work with Aids victims, I may be more inclined to buy into his apology.

To me this seems like that would be nothing more than one of those:  "I'm not a racist, because I have black friends." comments.
He made a very heartfelt apology, and I believe this should (of course I know it won't) blow away to nothing, like a fart in a tornado, so the politicians can get back to... well ... find something else to throw mud with, as that seems to be the norm lately.

Midget

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Actually just three short years ago Lukiwski said this:

"I firmly believe that by passing this legislation, we start on a very slippery slope which could affect societal change in a very adverse way," he told the House of Commons on June 28, 2005.

Those comments, combined with the taped comments lead me to believe he hasnt changed that much.

So what?? We already covered the SSM issue, and it has no bearing on the issue at hand. Just because it passed Parliament doesn't mean everyone agrees with it, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's not against the law, and it isn't hate speech just because you don't like what he and others are saying. What if I don't like it either. What if I think it's wrong. Too bad. My opinion

You don't have an argument here with it. It's a straw man, and you can't keep trying to steer the thread off base with it. Quit trying to bring it up as something relevent and germain to the discussion.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

All good point, however I disagree! Now if this guy would do some work with the gay community, attend a few gay parades, volunteer to work with Aids victims, I may be more inclined to buy into his apology.

You're just regurgitating what you've already opined about. You're starting to sound like the kid that thinks that if he screams loud & long enough, people will give in. You're going in circles with the same tired stuff and nothing new to debate.

If he did as you suggest, you'd likely come back saying it was a stunt. I know your stripe and I don't buy your neutrality in this.

The repetition is no longer thought provoking, but mind numbing and boring.

 

[Reccesoldier]

If you care what the guy said, don't vote for him. 

I applaud him for speaking his mind. I applaud him for being unambiguous in his views.  I applaud him for telling it like he thinks it is so that I can decide based on his real, honest and true feelings on the subject whether I will ever vote for the man.

Man, I wonder just how many homophobes remain hidden in the closet.   I also wonder what John Baird thinks of his colleague.  ^-^

 

[the 48th regulator]

And with that folks,

I shall lock this.

If anyone has anything of relevance, by all means PM a moderator and we shall reopen the thread

dileas

tess

army.ca staff