Hmmm, it appears I'm not alone re: small carriers....

[canuck101]

would all four of the ships be based on the Rotterdam class Landing Platform Dock (LPD) and one having a command suite on it. I still think having a separate AOR ship is better for example the patino class AOR would fit the bill.

So i would get three ships based on the Rotterdam class Landing Platform Dock (LPD) and three Patino auxiliary oiler and multi-product replenishment ships

You can see the specs for the  Rotterdam class Landing Platform Dock (LPD) at: http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/schelde_enforcer_lpd_13000.htm

You can see the specs for the Patino auxiliary oiler and multi-product replenishment ships at:
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/products.html# click on the picture.

 

[canuck101]

can i ask what is the American AOE-X program can you tell us more

 

[Infanteer]

Whew, who handed out all the Admiral's shoulder boards....

Baby steps.   Although I put this in the "capability enhancement" category along with air-deployable brigades, etc, etc it is important to temper these proposals (as Ex-Dragoon suggested) with the fact that we are in danger of losing basic Naval Capabilities in the near future (C2, AD, Task Force, Subs?) and that our current government currently seems to want to cut 700 million from the Defence Budget for free daycare.

Lets put our energy in to restructuring what we have.

 

[DJL]

AOE-X is the program to replace the Sacramento class logistics support ships (Think our Protecteur-class, then double the displacement)

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Reference the Hawkeye.  Howabout replacing the Hawkeye with an Unmanned Dirigible cruising at +60,000 feet?  You can reduce the size of your LHD and get rid of those nasty steam catapults and arrester wires.

Ummm LHDs, LHAs etc don't have catapults or arrester wires...

 

[Kirkhill]

I think that you and I are in broad agreement canuck 101.  I was just using the UK numbers to illustrate what is possible within the budget available.  Although the LPDs  are bigger than the LSD(A)s (18000 tonnes vs 16000 tonnes - by the way the Rotterdam herself is only 13000 tonnes) I don't see why a common platform couldn't be built with just one being outfitted completely as a Command ship.

Maybe there could even be some commonalities generated between the Patino class and the Rotterdam in terms of machinery.

By the way how much does a Patino RAS cost?

And DJL could you post a link to the AOE-X programme?

 

[Kirkhill]

Whew, who handed out all the Admiral's shoulder boards....

  I got mine with my Junior General's Kit Infanteer, didn't you? ???

 

[DJL]

http://peos.crane.navy.mil/futureships/TAOE(X)/TAOE(X).htm

 

[Infanteer]

I got mine with my Junior General's Kit Infanteer, didn't you?

Nah, I got mine in my latest edition of Grossgeneralstab.  ;D

I'm not trying to knock anyone (hence the wink), and I love to make proposals of my own.  I just feel that this type of proposal would be akin to argueing for the Army to deploy and sustain 2 Divisions to Afghanistan.  Baby steps.

 

[Kirkhill]

Ummm LHDs, LHAs etc don't have catapults or arrester wires...

I'm aware of that Ex-Dragoon.  I was responding to Blackshirt's suggestion that we park a Hawkeye on a vessel.  For everything else he wanted onboard he could get the job done with an LHD or LHA, as I think DJL or Canuck 101 pointed out.  If he wanted a Hawkeye on board then he would have needed catapult and arresters.

Cheers.

 

[Kirkhill]

I'm not trying to knock anyone (hence the wink), and I love to make proposals of my own.  I just feel that this type of proposal would be akin to argueing for the Army to deploy and sustain 2 Divisions to Afghanistan.  Baby steps.

I got it Infanteer.  But as others have pointed out.... no place without a plan.  And with the time it would take to generate all those vessels (Minimum 5 years for the first to hit the water? - 10 years for them all?) I think we would have ample time to take a lot of very tiny steps.

Cheers.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

You would have to double the size of the flight deck to you could have the length to put in the catapults to launch an E2off your flight deck and if thats the case you might as well get a conventionally powered carrier.

 

[Infanteer]

But as others have pointed out.... no place without a plan.

A plan is just a basis for change.  I would rather see a series of short term plans (fill out the Navy ratings, get the ships to sea, sustain our current capabilites, etc, etc) then some grandoise Plan Z that will turn us into a Maritime Superpower.  Lets get our sealegs and go from there.

 

[Kirkhill]

Agreed Ex-Dragoon.  And I also agree with you that that would be a step too far for us.  Probably many steps too far.

For that reason I suggested to Blackshirt that he rethink using the Hawkeye and trying something different to supply the same Surveillance capability.  I suggested a High Altitude unmanned dirigible as one option.  I am sure there are many others that are much better.

 

[Kirkhill]

I guess I don't see 4 transport vessels and a couple of Oilers as the basis of a Maritime Superpower....

Anyway...

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I like the dirigible idea actually. I always been a fan for the naval untilization of them.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I guess I don't see 4 transport vessels and a couple of Oilers as the basis of a Maritime Superpower....

Anyway...

No but when you add carriers, their air group and additional support and escort ships to the mix you are getting there.

 

[DJL]

I guess I don't see 4 transport vessels and a couple of Oilers as the basis of a Maritime Superpower....

Nor do I, with that said, you have to take into a account the logistical requirements for four LPDs and all the said Pongos on board. What are they going to eat, drink, smoke etc.......in effect, with two LPDs, (in terms of manpower) you have created another taskgroup. The Spanish/Dutch design you suggested is close to the same size as our current AORs, hence close in capabilities. With the point being, the Euro designs, our current AORs and most likely the JSS, will be too small to support both a naval taskgroup and the army battlegroup aboard the phibs.

Thats where Baby steps comes in.........purchase monster size AORs to replace our current ones, which will increase the capabilities of our naval task groups (in terms of endurance, support, maintenance etc) and if in the future we do purchase LPDs/LHDs/CVLs, we will be able to absorb the logistical blow brought forth by the said ships.

 

[Infanteer]

Do you want "Monster Size" AOR's?  They seem to be high profile targets for cheap weapons systems that the bad guys are really getting their mitts on (Anti-Shipping Missiles, Cheap Diesel-Electric Subs).  On well placed Silkworm and the whole concept goes down the tube.

 

[Cloud Cover]

You would have to double the size of the flight deck to you could have the length to put in the catapults to launch an E2off your flight deck and if thats the case you might as well get a conventionally powered carrier.

That's true enough ... although in theory the C2A and the Hawkeye 2000 could have RATO gear. Landing is the larger problem.