HK 416 vs M16 & C7

[Colin Parkinson]

Thanks, I forgot that the dwell time of the bolt is is much shorter on blowback guns. Funny though, I saw a picture in a magazine with an AR rifle (M4 I think) with fluted chambers, and they detailed that they had to increase the fluting for some reson that escapes me right now, I will try to find the article tonight.

 

[PJOsborne]

Patrick -- roger -- the point I am trying to make is that the troops (IMHO) would be better served with more bullets than buying a new upper.

10-20 mags out of a C7/C8 is not going to make it fouled passed the point of use.  Do we really need a system that will go for 20k without cleaning?
Would it be cool to get Hk416's and the Hk417 as a DM gun -- damn straight. 
Maybe SARPIII will find the Hk416 as the best option.

However my point is that DI works -- the cleaning issue about nooks and crannies is more of a garrision mentality.  The fact remains that MOST people in the CF dont understand that the system works well with a bit of carbon.  Run the gun really wet (CLP) and you wont have a problem.
  The gas tube does not need to be cleaned - due to the fact the hot gases are passing thru the carbon does not build up until it cools -- which is in the bolt and bolt carrier.
The barrel extension and chamber get fouled anyway in the piston guns due to the fact the gasses and carbon are also escaping around the extraction round -- piston or direct impingment.


 

Kev- I see where you're coming from and I agree for the most part with what you're saying. Thanks for enlightening me about the gas tube - it was one of those things that nagged me in the back of my mind saying "why doesn't it get really gummy more often?". I've only recently learned the value in 'running the gun wet' on my phase 2 course. Prior to that i stuck to the BMQ inspection mentality that said that cleanliness was everything and that you'll only put a tiny amount of CLP on these specific spots - nowhere else!
From a purely "time-saved" perspective, I think that the average guy would definately appreciate having to do that much less cleaning on his weapon, although I acknowledge that some parts will always remain cleaning-intensive.

 

[medaid]

I'd love a weapon that doesnt need to be cleaned that often. Kev, can you tell the instructors at the schools that the rifles work better wet?  ;D

 

[DirtyDog]

The 416 is hailed as a revolutionary AR yet it goes backwards in tech in regards to the piston system.  I've "heard" from some people that it's not living up to the hype as far as reliability is concerned either.... but that's hard to confirm.

Whether or not we could licence build it at Colt Canada, or finagle a similar system to create canadian interest is another story though...

As far as that goes.... Bustmaster makes a Gas Piston System AR-15.  The GPS upper is made by a company in AZ (http://www.pof-usa.com/index.htm) and supposedly (from 2nd and 3rd hand knowledge) they are crap. 

 

[KevinB]

Hk made a OTB version of the 416 to appease the NSW folk.
  The budweiser clan where the only guys I know that had issues during trials.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The 416 is hailed as a revolutionary AR yet it goes backwards in tech in regards to the piston system.  I've "heard" from some people that it's not living up to the hype as far as reliability is concerned either.... but that's hard to confirm.

As far as that goes.... Bustmaster makes a Gas Piston System AR-15.  The GPS upper is made by a company in AZ (http://www.pof-usa.com/index.htm) and supposedly (from 2nd and 3rd hand knowledge) they are crap. 

You mean like the revolutionary gas impingement system of the AG 42b??? ;D

There is not a hell of a lot that is “new” in the world of small arms, except for the materials used.

 

[DirtyDog]

The budweiser clan where the only guys I know that had issues during trials.

As in American amatuer gun nuts?

 

[mudgunner49]

As in American amatuer gun nuts?

I think that I-6 is referring to the NSW folk...


blake