Hillier flown from Afghan village after bomb blast

[PPCLI Guy]

I am not sure it was wise for Hillier to depart the AO so quickly after the IED went off. The blast was 800 meters away after all.

He was on a programmed visit - and continued with the program.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Land mines generally refer to devices specifically manufactured for purpose, as distinguished from improvised explosive devices.
An IED typically consists of an explosive charge, possibly a booster charge, a detonator and a mechanism either mechanical or electronic, known as the initiation system. IEDs are extremely diverse in design, and may contain any type of firing device or initiator, plus various commercial, military, or contrived chemical or explosive fillers.An improvised explosive device (IED) is a formal name for explosive devices as often used in unconventional warfare by terrorists, guerrillas or commando forces in a theater of operations. Since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the press has often referred to these devices as roadside bombs.
Wow are you misinformed.

No he isn't. You have not defined any one item in your paragraph.  In fact what you have described pretty much matches the mines found along the Western Front dating from WWI.

Think about what just wrote about the explosive train.  How many mines lack that?
You say IED's are diverse in design.  Mines aren't diverse?
As regards an IED being an unconventional weapon, your definition also applies to booby traps manufactured with mass produced firing devices.  Are they booby traps, IEDs, or mines?
You can't say a land mine is an explosive device designed to be operated by the direct physical actions of the victim either.  A MRUD is still considered a landmine and that can be functioned by the person who laid the mine.
Just how mass produced does an item have to be before it moves from IED to mine?  If someone makes two identical explosive devices are they then mines? 20? 200?

It would be more accurate to say the vehicle struck a mine consisting of an IED/booby trap/TM46.

And finally a couple of definitions provided by NATO:

Mine  - An explosive or other material, normally encased, designed to destroy or damage vehicles, boats, or aircraft, or designed to wound, kill, or otherwise incapacitate personnel. It may be detonated by the action of its target, the passage of time or by controlled means.

Improvised Explosive Device (IED)  - A device placed or fabricated in an improvised manner incorporating destructive, lethal, noxious, pyrotechnic, or incendiary chemcial agenst and designed to destroy, incapacitate, harass, or distract.  It may incorporate military stores, but is normally devised from nonmilitary components.

So looking at those, can an IED be called a mine?

D

Edit- Seems like Kat and George beat me to it.  Oh well, save everyone looking up the NATO definitions.

 

[Armymedic]

How do you know it was a Bison Amb that was hit?

At 0613 hrs, it was because Patrick Brown reported it live on CBC. He was with the CDS at the time of the blast, and was reporting from the FOB where they and the convoy that was attacked moved to afterward.

Later, at work, HSS troops said that it was a amb that was hit, and none of the crew were injured. The blast ripped off one of the wheels.

As for what it was....it went boom....it hurts...It makes me need to go to work....its all bad.

 

[Blakey]

At 0613 hrs, it was because Patrick Brown reported it live on CBC. He was with the CDS at the time of the blast, and was reporting from the FOB where they and the convoy that was attacked moved to afterward.

Later, at work, HSS troops said that it was a amb that was hit, and none of the crew were injured. The blast ripped off one of the wheels.

As for what it was....it went boom....it hurts...It makes me need to go to work....its all bad.

Rgr, when I had made my initial post, all I had to go on was the www media account of the attack. (I have no T.V. in my room). It wasn't until later on that I actually saw the same report via CBC website, thank you.

 

[ErorZ]

Funny how the media is trying to avoid reporting it made a mistake it its initial reports about Gen. Hillier being whisked away after the blast. The only mention I could find of it was in the Globe and Mail article, which starts off saying

"Soldiers scrambled to whisk General Rick Hillier, the chief of the defence staff, into another armoured vehicle and back to the army's forward-operating base near Gumbad”

but then goes on to quote Gen. Hillier

"Gen. Hillier told CBC Newsworld later that the explosion happened close enough for him to feel it. But he took the planned route back to the forward-operating base “and I left on schedule. So I guess it was a day in the life of this mission."

Funnier is how CBC, the people that actually did the interview last night don't even rectify their story, they even half quote Gen. Hillier to make it sound like hes down playing the whole thing.

Source:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060311.wxhillier0311/BNStory/Afghanistan/home
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/10/canadians-mission060310.html

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Funny how the media is trying to avoid reporting it made a mistake it its initial reports about Gen. Hillier being whisked away after the blast. The only mention I could find of it was in the Globe and Mail article, which starts off saying

"Soldiers scrambled to whisk General Rick Hillier, the chief of the defence staff, into another armoured vehicle and back to the army's forward-operating base near Gumbad”

but then goes on to quote Gen. Hillier

"Gen. Hillier told CBC Newsworld later that the explosion happened close enough for him to feel it. But he took the planned route back to the forward-operating base “and I left on schedule. So I guess it was a day in the life of this mission."

Funnier is how CBC, the people that actually did the interview last night don't even rectify their story, they even half quote Gen. Hillier to make it sound like hes down playing the whole thing.

Source:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060311.wxhillier0311/BNStory/Afghanistan/home
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/10/canadians-mission060310.html

At risk of sidetracking the thread....the CBC is starting to sicken me a little. The two nights of live newscasts from Kandahar were OK but the reports from Carol whats her face were heavy slanted. She used the words "peacekeeping" and asked senior officers and soldiers "is this peacekeeping" at least ten times. Where has she been? and why is she asking this?
My answer (cause those were rhetorical questions..ha ha) is that she thinks we shouldn't be there doing counter insurgency work and she is trying to shape Canadian opinions.
thoughts from the forum??

 

[McG]

If you look weaker then the rest, they will attack you. The target was a logistic convoy a short distance away.

I would not take this to the lesson's learned centre.  There are a few errors in this story. 

A remote detonated IED is just a mine by other name,

You've just failed IED awareness.  That line of thinking can get troops killed.  Any command detonated IED (be it RC, command wire, or suicide) is an ambush.

 

[George Wallace]

Crap!

We have enough threads and Topics on what is a Mine and what is a Bobby trap and what is an IED and ........frig the semantics.....It is off topic.

 

[bilton090]

Land mines generally refer to devices specifically manufactured for purpose, as distinguished from improvised explosive devices.
An IED typically consists of an explosive charge, possibly a booster charge, a detonator and a mechanism either mechanical or electronic, known as the initiation system. IEDs are extremely diverse in design, and may contain any type of firing device or initiator, plus various commercial, military, or contrived chemical or explosive fillers.An improvised explosive device (IED) is a formal name for explosive devices as often used in unconventional warfare by terrorists, guerrillas or commando forces in a theater of operations. Since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the press has often referred to these devices as roadside bombs.

Wow are you misinformed.  From A Eng. your right on the money  !!!!!!!

 

[George Wallace]

Bilton

Too bad you didn't include the replies to that post also.  :

Now back on Topic!

 

[RangerRay]

At risk of sidetracking the thread....the CBC is starting to sicken me a little. The two nights of live newscasts from Kandahar were OK but the reports from Carol whats her face were heavy slanted. She used the words "peacekeeping" and asked senior officers and soldiers "is this peacekeeping" at least ten times. Where has she been? and why is she asking this?
My answer (cause those were rhetorical questions..ha ha) is that she thinks we shouldn't be there doing counter insurgency work and she is trying to shape Canadian opinions.
thoughts from the forum??

CBC is only starting to sicken you now?  I've been sickened by it since high school! 

But I have to agree with you, their coverage from Kandahar was fair and even supportive, until they got to Carol Off's and Terrence "The Horror and the Valour" Mckenna's reports.  They definitly gave the impression that we should be "peacekeeping", we're there supporting narco-warlords and how much safer things were under the Taliban.  :

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

CBC is only starting to sicken you now?  I've been sickened by it since high school! 

But I have to agree with you, their coverage from Kandahar was fair and even supportive, until they got to Carol Off's and Terrence "The Horror and the Valour" Mckenna's reports.  They definitly gave the impression that we should be "peacekeeping", we're there supporting narco-warlords and how much safer things were under the Taliban.  :

Terrance McKenna....i know a few vets....RCAF especially... who'd like to leave him out in Gumbad for a few nights alone!! ha ha.  :threat:

 

[Kirkhill]

Terrance McKenna....i know a few vets....RCAF especially... who'd like to leave him out in Gumbad for a few nights alone!! ha ha. 

Padre - the church militant?

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Padre - the church militant?

Darn tooting!! he he.....I'm a military chaplain for a reason...I support our troops and vets...Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition I say.... ;D

 

[Kirkhill]

Cheers Sir. ;D

 

[Acorn]

So looking at those, can an IED be called a mine?

It can, if you want to make a big mistake. Sure, the definition of an IED may fit with some other definitions of explosive devices, but it is VERY important to distinguish them. Ask any EOD guys why they have special teams for dealing with IEDs, with special equipment and training.

 

[Kat Stevens]

How isn't an IED a mine?  It is a deliberately placed explosive device designed to kill or maim, demoralize, and deny the use of ground.  I'd buy 60 lbs of semtex strapped to jihadis headgear as an IED, but on the ground waiting to be remotely, pressure, proximity, or trip wire detonated makes it no different from an M-16 or an M-18.

 

[Kirkhill]

One is store-bought and predictable (it meets various manufacturing standards) and the other is a Do-it-Yourself device made by individuals of varying competence and unpredictable?

 

[Kat Stevens]

Explain, then, the cottage industry throughout the Soviet Block of wooden box mines?  I don't think the Wehrmacht in '43 gave a flying rodents rectum if it was built in Baba Smirnoff's kitchen, or The Great Peoples Revolutionary Wooden Box Mine And Tractor Factory, it was still a mine. The initiation chain is identical, the intent is identical, the components are identical, and the result is identical.

 

[Kirkhill]

Oxymoron: Russian Quality Control?