Having another job while in the CF...is it possible?

[Criscuit]

If anyone can point me in the right direction, that'd rock.  Just looking to make some money on the weekends to help pay bills and save up for a future w/ children.  Any advice / links?  Thanks guys and gals.

Willie

 

[gaspasser]

Part-time on weekends and nights...ok
Full time..no-no.
And none of it can interferr with your "day job"
I drove taxi once to make ends meet then the 9er got a transient job at DQ.  Can't the wife work?
Cheers

 

[MJP]

Yes you can with your CoC permission, submit a memo up the chain.  Lots of guys I know have second jobs ranging from security to working at home depot with the common one being a bouncer.

 

[aesop081]

Yes you can with your CoC permission, submit a memo up the chain.  Lots of guys I know have second jobs ranging from security to working at home depot with the common one being a bouncer.

if you pick bouncer or anything like that, beware......you get hurt.....you're on your own if its a career ending injury.

 

[GO!!!]

If anyone can point me in the right direction, that'd rock.  Just looking to make some money on the weekends to help pay bills and save up for a future w/ children.  Any advice / links?  Thanks guys and gals.

Willie

Write up a memo to your CO asking permission to take another job. IME, they are usually granted, and this means that when you get knifed working as a bouncer the CF will take care of your medical, and you'll still get paid.

You are not permitted to work another job without the permission of your chain of command.

 

[Criscuit]

Awesome, thanks folks.  Got exactly what I'm looking for there.  Appreciate it.

 

[3rd Horseman]

As a few have stated here asking your CoC is prudent, but I have never seen any code, legislation or order that says you cant. Does anyone have a link or quote from a CF document that says you cant? IME I have conducted more than one investigation into a complaint about a soldier working outside the CF and in each case it resulted in no action due to a lack of CF rules to stop it, did I miss somthing or have the rules changed? 

 

[Michael OLeary]

As a few have stated here asking your CoC is prudent, but I have never seen any code, legislation or order that says you cant. Does anyone have a link or quote from a CF document that says you cant? IME I have conducted more than one investigation into a complaint about a soldier working outside the CF and in each case it resulted in no action due to a lack of CF rules to stop it, did I miss somthing or have the rules changed? 

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/pdf/cfpn9_06_e.pdf

See top of page 3.  I guess you weren't consulted.

Outside employment could lead to COI

By Mr. Marc Potter, Senior Analyst, Conflict of Interest (COI)

A second job, separate from your military duties, could have serious implications for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces (DND/CF).

A recent decision by the Canadian International Trade Tribunal (CITT) sheds light on a new risk related to the awarding of government contracts – the outside employment of CF personnel and DND employees.

In Calian vs PWGSC, the CITT ruled that the hiring of two non-commissioned members (NCMs) by Valcom Inc, a competitor, created enough of an apparent COI to render the procurement process invalid. It is worth noting that the two NCMs in question were not involved in the contracts procurement process and had no way of influencing it. The CITT concluded that the simple fact that a potential supplier had hired two members of the department involved gave it unfair advantage, and so created a situation of COI.

“Up until now, conflicts of interest arising from outside employment mainly affected the reputation of the organization,” says Colonel Yvon Desjardins, Defence Ethics Program Director. “The CITT decision not only recognized that the risk was real, but stressed the need for greater caution to ensure that the outside employment of CF members and DND employees does not jeopardize the procurement process.”

As a result of the CITT decision, DND and CF managers must show greater vigilance and implement measures to help prevent situations that could lead to the potential cancellation of contracts.

“Commanding officers are not necessarily aware of their staff’s outside employment,” Colonel Desjardins says. “These jobs pose a serious risk, and managers must exercise greater control over them. A contract cancelled due to a conflict of interest not only harms the reputation of the organization but also results in hundreds of hours of lost work and possibly thousands of dollars already invested in the project.”

Before starting a second job, you must obtain written authorization from your commanding officer, as outlined in Queen’s Regulations and Orders (QR&O) 19-42 Civil Employment. If your CO approves, and your second job is with a company directly or indirectly involved in defence-related matters, you must declare it by submitting a Confidential Report to the Conflict of Interest Section of the Defence Ethics Program.

When your Confidential Report is analyzed, you may be contacted for clarification of your report. Most often, cases are reviewed and closed within three business days.

 Read Calian vs PWGSC at www.citt-tcce.gc.ca/procure/determin/pr2g008_e.asp.

 Consult QR&O 19-42 at www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_o/vol1/tofc19_e.asp or at http://admfincs.mil.ca/qr_o/vol1/tofc19_e.asp for information about civilian employment.

 Learn about the Defence Ethics Program at www.forces.gc.ca/ethics/index_e.asp or at http://ethics.mil.ca/index_e.asp.

 Find a downloadable version of the Confidential Report at www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/7021/forms/form1a_e.doc or at http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/7021/f orms/form1a_e.doc.
 For information or advice on issues related to conflicts of interest, contact Mr. Marc Potter at Potter.MH@forces.gc.ca or at 613-995-0229.

 

[CougarKing]

Why don't you just  sign up to a reserve unit? Which is more important to you- an active CF career or a civilian job outside? If it's the latter, maybe you really should just do the reserves.

 

[3rd Horseman]

Michael,

    That was a good read particularly the Calian article. Funny how that company is calling the Valcom team out but is blackend by its own actions in the past that are similar.

  (QR&O) 19-42 Civil Employment has not changed and it did not stand up under legal test  a few years ago and as such I would suspect it would not now. The key issue is that the member is not compelled to act, while the CO is given the authority to react if he deems the issue breeches the article.

Confidential Report has changed, in the past it related to full Cols and above had to report the remainder should but were not compelled.

Conflict of Interest Section of the Defence Ethics Program appears to have some amendments and  again it appears to apply to all rather than Col and above as in the past. But it is written rather weakly.

All in all very prudent to ask CoC so one does not have to fight the issue after the fact.

 

[aesop081]

Wether or not it stood the test when you were doing whatever isnt relevant.  Policy has been established and the member is obliged to follow it. He wont be able to say "3rdhorseman on army.ca said it would never hold up" !!!

If he gets turned down by his CoC and wishes to redress the situation thats his choice and then we shall see if it holds up to legal challenge.

 

[Trinity]

Why don't you just  sign up to a reserve unit? Which is more important to you- an active CF career or a civilian job outside? If it's the latter, maybe you really should just do the reserves.

It might not be that simple.

Possibly a member might need a second job to survive due to financial obligation.
A member might have been asked to teach at a local college due to their skills gained in the CF.
I'm sure I could think of other situations in which a member could seek secondary employment.

It's not simply an issue of the member wanting to do a civilian job more than a CF position as you imply.

I don't see this any different than a CF member going to school/university after hours and on weekends.
The priority however is that mon-fri and operationally the CF comes first!!! All extra curricular activities
must be flexible around the CF commitment.

 

[geo]

Problem with secondary jobs has to do with the fact that it is secondary.

If you are given the nod for deployment or career course you end up having to drop the job, often at last minute.

Make sure you inform your CoC & let your secondary employer know that you may have to leave on short notice.

 

[reccecrewman]

I took a job as a young Trooper delivering pizza......... I never wrote a memo to my C-o-C. I asked my Troop Warrant if it was OK to take this job on and he said "Not a problem, just remember that you are a soldier first......... your first obligation is to the Regiment."  So off I went.  I did that for about a year and a half because I had a pregnant wife, which turned into a wife and son at home and she couldn't work.  I made about $250-$300 a week which came in handy.  Now I'm a Corporal and the wife is back to work so no more slinging pizza for me.  As stated earlier, some situations come up in which a soldier taking a part time job is a necessary short term solution.  I know that here in Petawawa, about 80-90% of all pizza delivery driver's for either Pizza Pizza or 241 are Military, and they all have different reasons for working there.  I had a Warrant Officer work at the pizza shop with me............  For the life of me I don't know why he was doing it, most of the driver's were of the Private type with young families........

Regards

 

[kincanucks]

Why don't you just  sign up to a reserve unit? Which is more important to you- an active CF career or a civilian job outside? If it's the latter, maybe you really should just do the reserves.

Are you in the military? If yes, Jesus wept.  If not, then stay in your lane whatever that may be.  If someone, who is in the CF, thinks that in order to make ends meet they need to find other employment than all the power to them.  Where do you come off criticizing someone who is just trying to get by or who wants to do better for their family?  CF personnel, especially the lower ranks, don't always make a shit load of money and it can sometimes be very hard to get by especially with a family.

HH and DA

 

[CougarKing]

Are you in the military? If yes, Jesus wept.  If not, then stay in your lane whatever that may be.  If someone, who is in the CF, thinks that in order to make ends meet they need to find other employment than all the power to them.  Where do you come off criticizing someone who is just trying to get by or who wants to do better for their family?  CF personnel, especially the lower ranks, don't always make a crap load of money and it can sometimes be very hard to get by especially with a family.

HH and DA

Kincanuks,

Look, with all due respect, I am well aware of how hard it is sometimes to make ends meet as servicemember, although I am a civvy. I was only suggesting and did not mean my post to be taken the wrong way.  I never said I had the right to impose on anyone.

 

[gaspasser]

I'd like to add that if you do put up a memo to your CO, be weary that not eveyone in the unit chain gets to see it and question your reasons.  When I drove for Petawawa taxi back when, I didn't do the memo, just had my OC's permission to do so(I was already seeing him for financial counseling) Soon! the whole chain knew and I was embarassed in front of my peers. 
Mind you, I later politely told that OC what I thought of his verbal diarrhea and gave up the job that spring.
Be weary young Skywalker of you chain, they can screw you over.
Good Luck and Happy Trails.
BYTD

 

[shadow]

I worked as a manager at Blockbuster for 4 years while I was an NCM.  The company was great in that I went on two tours overseas and they held on to my position for me while I was gone (My manager called Head Office, and they said "She's in the military?  Give her all the time off she needs").  I worked on weekends and Monday nights and it never interfered with my military employment.  I even rented movies to my CO!

The only thing I would watch out for, in your looking for another job, and you should examine the links already provided to the QR&O's etc is the implications of a second job being related to your military job.  If you are military nurse for example, and the CF paid for your schooling/training, then you are not allowed to work civie-side as a nurse.  Conflict of interest.

Hope this helps.
Shadow

 

[Gunner98]

Shadow said, "If you are military nurse for example, and the CF paid for your schooling/training, then you are not allowed to work civie-side as a nurse.  Conflict of interest." 

This not true, if you are a military, doctor, physiotherapist, pharmacist or nurse you may work during off-duty time for civilian employers.  You are not covered under the Crown Liability Act during civilian employment (therefore you need separate malpractice insurance), however, your license to practice is paid for by DND/CF. This s good way for personnel in non-patient care positions to maintain their competency and earn some extra funds.

Doctors may not legally charge for treating military patients while working in a non-military environment.

The only time you should require your chain of command or DND's permission is if the work you are doing is risky, such as a parachuting instructor or a race car driver.  I, and many others, have worked as ushers or security for concerts, football, or hockey teams in their venues (stadiums/arenas).  A few extra bucks and a front row seat, priceless fun times.

If there is any chance of a conflict of interest then as stated you should seek permission, otherwise enjoy the extra funds and work experience.

 

[shadow]

Gunner98,
Thanks.  That is interesting.  When we were at University, the SEM from Borden told us specifically (more for the ROTPs who were getting paid very little) that they were welcome to take on a civilian job on their own time, but that it could not have anything to do with the training they received from the military.
The argument was that the military paid for these members to become nurses/engineers what-not, and therefore the member is obligated to work in that capacity only for the military.
I will have to find out what they were using as a reference for that...