Having another job while in the CF...is it possible?

[Klinkaroo]

Thanks for the references guys, that's exactly what I was looking for.

 

[1feral1]

Aside from the references noted and it is also correct as listed above one had to be RO'd, once approved by the CO for his part-time job, or at least thats was the norm in pre 1995, and also here currently.

When I was with RAA, there was a young male LT who was RO'd as a go-go dancer in a Sydney notorious gay club, big black knee high leather boots and leather hot pants, all good to go (Seinfeld quote "not that there is anything wrong with that").  Info sourced from two of our girls who went in to confirm, ha!

OWDU

 

[exgunnertdo]

Nice - that means you could take 9 months pata and do a test run for an outside job as pata is LWOP.

NO - because on PATA you have to comply with EI rules. Which means any income you earn over about $100/week gets deducted from your EI. I don't know how the top-up portion works, but I would guess it is the same as the EI - you work, they claw back.

(not saying you would do it - but didn't want anyone reading this thread in the future to think it would be OK)

 

[CountDC]

by EI rules you just have to report the earnings to EI and they will adjust your payment accordingly. The CF considers PATA to be a period of LWOP and tops off your EI entitlement to 93% of your pay.  Nothing in there for recovery action if you work during that period in fact there is nothing even requiring you to report working during the period. You are still considered on PATA Leave from your regular job and to report back to work at the end of it.  If you do not return and fulfill the required period of employment then both the EI and top up are recovered from you.

Myself I wouldn't do it - I would rather go fishing and camping, play some computer games, have a nice vacation.  D9 though tells me I am not allowed - I have to spend the time with the kids ;D

 

[PMedMoe]

I have to spend the time with the kids

And isn't that the purpose of MATA/PATA?  Truthfully, if I found out a member on MATA/PATA leave was working full time, I'd be curious as to why they took the leave in the first place.  Just because you're "entitled" to it, doesn't mean you have to take it.

 

[CountDC]

Will being as you seem to want to be techical about it,  no - the purpose of MATA/PATA is so that you can spend the time recovering (MATA), bonding with your new child and getting all the little things involved with having a new child done not so you can spend time with the kids you already have.

You could be curious but so far I have not seen a regulation that would enable you to do anything about it.  Certainly wasn't mentioned in the briefing I had last week.  It is another policy that left things too wide open.  I think they should change the regulation to include a clause that you are not allowed to take an outside job during the period and if it is found that you did your leave would be cancelled and all top off recovered.  The tricky part is that the CF does not have the control over MATA/PATA leave to deny or cancel it for other than imperative military requirements.  We would have to convince the government to change the policy.  I have a feeling no one has the appetite for that right now.

I will spend my PATA mainly taking care of the kids we already have and doing the house work(including washing diapers) while D9 mainly takes care of the addition and recovers. 

hmmm just realized we seem to have hijacked this thread.

 

[PMedMoe]

Will being as you seem to want to be techical about it,  no - the purpose of MATA/PATA is so that you can spend the time recovering (MATA), bonding with your new child and getting all the little things involved with having a new child done not so you can spend time with the kids you already have.

Okay, so not spending time with the kids you already have, but with the new one.  Again, why would someone stop working full-time, only to go to work full-time?  Not trying to be "technical", just seems like bad logic, is all.

You could be curious but so far I have not seen a regulation that would enable you to do anything about it.

Never said I would (or could) do anything about it, I'd just be shaking my head. 

Anyway, back on topic.

 

[CountDC]

Okay, so not spending time with the kids you already have, but with the new one.  Again, why would someone stop working full-time, only to go to work full-time?  Not trying to be "technical", just seems like bad logic, is all.
Never said I would (or could) do anything about it, I'd just be shaking my head. 

Anyway, back on topic.

1. test the waters

2. money - some trades could actually make more money during that period between the top up and wages paid at temp job.

I agree with the head shaking - am about to do my third pata and sure as hell won't be working at a job.  9 months of no work outside the house is great to me. 

Back to the topic.

Why take a second job to begin with.  If you have a family then you should spend that time with the family.  You will lose enough time with them as it is simply due to the military.  If you are single then you should be able to make it with your military pay for sure.  If you can't then you need financial counselling not a second job. I tried it for one year and it was no fun - hardly saw the family and when I did I was exhausted and cranky.  Gave it up, looked at the budget, got control of it and we are a lot better off.

 

[cek]

Hi I have a quick question... Am I able to work a part time job on the books working nights for a couple months until I get back onto my feet financially?  I am non deployable and work normal hours.  The job is also temporary so if something came up I would be able to stop working at any time. 

I'm stuck at Pte pay at the moment, and am getting out soon for medical.  Wife can't work, and we have 3 kids + are on food bank hampers at the moment.  Made a lot of stupid mistakes with credit cards a couple years ago and am now trying to pay it off + supporting a family.  SISIP also can't help because I'm getting out so soon.  THanks for any help.

 

[MikeL]

You would have to speak with your chain of command about seeking part time work, I believe the CO must approve it.  AFAIK, it may be allowed provided it does not interfere with your Military work, and it isn't as a bouncer, reflects poorly on the CF, etc. 

 

[cek]

Thanks. What would actually happen though if you start getting reportable income from a part time job?

 

[MikeL]

What would actually happen though if you start getting reportable income from a part time job?

What do you mean?

Also,  have you spoken with JPSU on your base/area?  Not sure if they can help you out, but it might be worth looking into.

 

[cek]

What do you mean?

Also,  have you spoken with JPSU on your base/area?  Not sure if they can help you out, but it might be worth looking into.

I was just under the impression that you're not allowed to work or make any money while getting paid by the CF.  I report to JPSU at the moment.  I'll ask them but they may try to push that "return to civilian work" program where the employer can't pay you.

 

[MJP]

I was just under the impression that you're not allowed to work or make any money while getting paid by the CF.  I report to JPSU at the moment.  I'll ask them but they may try to push that "return to civilian work" program where the employer can't pay you.

Lots of people hold PT jobs or run businesses on the side while serving.  There are no real issues as long as a few simple criteria are met.  One being that you have gained permission/told your CoC via a memo.  Second that both you and your other employer realize that the CF comes first.  As Skeletor has pointed out the job should not reflect poorly on the ethos of the CF.

As for the money piece there are no worries.  Money earned is reported to the CRA not the CF.  You simply just have an extra t4 slip for when you do taxes.

 

[Shamrock]

Thanks. What would actually happen though if you start getting reportable income from a part time job?

QR&O 19.42 - 19.42 – CIVIL EMPLOYMENT
  19.42 – EMPLOI CIVIL

(1) Subject to paragraph (3), no officer or non-commissioned member on full-time service shall engage in any civil employment or undertaking that in the opinion of the member’s commanding officer:
   
  (a) is or is likely to be detrimental to the interests of the Canadian Forces;

  (b) reflects or is likely to reflect discredit upon the Canadian Forces; or

  (c) in the case of members of the Regular Force, is continuous.

(2) No officer or non-commissioned member on full-time service shall authorize the use of the member’s name or photograph in connection with a commercial product, except so far as the member’s name may be part of a firm name.

(3) Except that an officer or non-commissioned member shall not engage in any civil employment or undertaking that reflects or is likely to reflect discredit upon the Canadian Forces, this article does not apply to a member who is :

  (a) on leave immediately preceding release; or

  (b) on leave without pay.

(1) Sous réserve de l’alinéa (3), aucun officier ou militaire du rang en service à plein temps ne doit occuper un emploi civil ni exploiter une entreprise civile lorsque, selon le cas, de l’avis de son commandant, cet emploi ou cette entreprise :

    a) est ou sera vraisemblablement préjudiciable aux intérêts des Forces canadiennes;

    b) jette ou jettera vraisemblablement le discrédit sur les Forces canadiennes;

    c) dans le cas de militaires de la force régulière, est à temps continu.

  (2) Aucun officier ou militaire du rang servant à plein temps ne doit autoriser l’emploi de son nom ou de sa photo en rapport avec un produit commercial, sauf dans la mesure où son nom ferait partie d’une raison sociale.

  (3) Sauf qu’il ne doit pas occuper un emploi civil ni exploiter une entreprise civile qui jette ou jettera vraisemblablement du discrédit sur les Forces canadiennes, le présent article ne s’applique pas à un officier ou militaire du rang qui est :

    a) soit en congé précédant immédiatement sa libération;

    b) soit en congé sans solde.

 

[TCM621]

Also relavent is CFAO 19-7

1.    This order amplifies  QR&O 19.42.

2.    Subject to para 3, no member on full-time service shall engage in any
organized civil business or undertaking for financial gain on a defence
establishment with other members or their dependants in the course of which
he conducts business or trade, such as:

    a.  insurance, securities or investment selling;

    b.  furniture moving; or

    c.  any other type of transaction selling products or providing
          services.

3.    This order does not preclude a member from engaging in:

    a.  employment in a business or institute operated by
          concessionaires, Canex or canteens;

    b.  an enterprise not specifically detailed in para 2, eg, barbering
          or laundry, which in the opinion of the commanding officer
          provides a beneficial service not otherwise readily available on
          a defence establishment; or

    c.  isolated private transactions such as the sale or advertising for
          sale on a defence establishment or through service media of his
          own real estate, automobile, household furniture, etc.

4.    Unless the approval of NDHQ is obtained, no member on full-time
service shall be employed by or serve as a member or auxiliary member of:

    a.  the Royal Canadian Mounted Police;

    b.  a provincial or municipal police force or any other constabulary
          force; or

    c.  a provincial or municipal emergency planning organization.

5.    No member shall engage in any civil employment or undertaking which
requires the disclosure of information acquired as a result of military
service.

6.    No member shall use the influence of his rank or position in any
private business transactions with other members or their dependants.

7.    Order in Council PC 71/4005 of 18 Aug 50 as amended by Order in
Council PC 98/5322 of 4 Nov 50 authorizes the temporary employment of
members in a civilian capacity during leave or off-duty hours during the
period 1 May to 31 Oct annually, but only if:

    a.  such employment will not interfere with normal military duties;

    b.  authority has been obtained for the employment of additional
          persons for the work to be performed;

    c.  suitably qualified persons are not available for engagement
          locally; and

    d.  the work cannot be delayed until suitably qualified persons
          become available.


(C)                                    1605-19-7 (DPLS)

I just helped a guy do up a memo regarding this and the answer from the chain was that they don't care what you do on your off hours as long as it doesn't affect the CF and his performance.

 

[Supnewf]

Good Morning,

Anyone have a copy or some points they used on a memo that got approved for having a second job while being Reg Force?

TIA

 

[Sub_Guy]

Good Morning,

Anyone have a copy or some points they used on a memo that got approved for having a second job while being Reg Force?

TIA

Do you need a memo?  It’s your off time and the criteria mentioned above is pretty clear. 

 

[FSTO]

When I was doing shift work at RJOC Pacific, I worked construction for my cousin on my days off. It was a nice supplement to the income and it kept me out of the bars.
It was on my days off and I never even considered asking for permission.

 

[doggroomer]

I own a dog grooming business and work evenings and weekends.
The only time I "sought permission" was recently while reading my SOU's from the Transition Centre.  It stated that I cannot engage in self-employment. 
I confirmed with my Case Manager that this only pertains to my RTW plan, not on my own time.  It was clarified that my own time is mine to do with as I please, and if I want to earn extra income I am able to do that.