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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

  • Thread starter Thread starter McG
  • Start date Start date
Agreed. We've fucked up big time... And the butchers bill is in the mail.
Hoping it goes to the same address all my other mail seems to go to... (Aka not mine!)


It makes me sick also. It's blatant antisemitism.

I used to think Britain was so much worse with unchecked religious extremism than us. But actions of last couple weeks with everyone from the housewife to the educated politician, all positions in our society that have been proud to announce their support of Hamas.

It's more than sickening, it actually makes me fearful.
The narrative that has been playing out over the last decade or so (probably longer) is what has otherwise decent people rooting for a terror organization that uses human shields, takes hostages, etc etc.

We hear about Jewish settlements being built where Palestinian settlements had been not too long ago. We hear about rocket attacks, but then also hear how amazing Iron Dome is. We hear about flashpoints as tensions rise, only to see Palestinians throwing rocks at IDF troops while the IDF troops look like cyborgs from the future in comparison...

What people see are poor people losing their homes & settlements so other people can build their homes on the same land. They see rocks vs rifles. They tend to see, and are fed a narrative, that paints Hamas as the 'freedom fighters of an oppressed people who lose their settlements to Israel, and must live in a smaller & ever shrinking piece of land' rather than the cause of all that nonsense in the first place... (Well maybe not the original cause, I am far too ignorant of whatever the problem is to even attempt to explain its origins or continuation/complications)


But the support for Hamas is, I believe, support for what they see as the David in David vs Goliath. Ignorantly rooting for the underdawg, sort of speak...

(At least I hope that's the case. If not, I share your sentiments and concerns!)
 
Agreed. We've fucked up big time... And the butchers bill is in the mail.
And I can say how we fucked up:

1. We refuse to call out people who openly advocate for terrorism instead using wishy washy words like "we have to TOLERATE this" which is pure bullshit;
2. We listen to scholarly "experts" who tell us what history our children should study and neglecting what SHOULD be studied - like Germany in WW2 and Hitler's evil plans to kill all the Jews;
3. We refuse to confront evil where it exists and hide behind words like 'tolerance' and '__________phobia'. (fill in the blank with whatever you see fit)


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

Well as a nation we haven't done a whole lot internationally that is worth spit in a long time. At least Chretien and Martin had the balls to take a stand - the current GoC not so much.

I'd say they are comparable to Neville Chamberlain but that would not be fair - at least he had the courage to stick to his guns for the most part.
 
A pretty good summary of how we got here


...​

It may feel a long time ago, but things did start well between the nascent Jewish state and the UN.
The adoption in November 1947 of Resolution 181 by the United Nations General Assembly was one of the first acts of the UN and it set in train the creation of Israel through the partition of British-run Mandatory Palestine. Churchill had handed over the job to the UN, having had more than a few of his own run-ins with the Stern Gang.
The two-state solution the UN proposed – independent Jewish and Palestinian states, plus a special international administration for Jerusalem – was welcomed by almost all Jewish organisations at the time. And on May 14, 1948, the day on which the British Mandate expired, Israel declared its creation within the borders defined in Resolution 181.
Yet the following day the first Arab-Israeli war broke out when Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq sent in their armies, with additional firepower coming from Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

Tension as Israel expands​

Although the resolution had been voted on and passed in the UN with a two-thirds majority, Arab nations voted against it and never accepted the result. They felt it gave too much land to the Jews who were a smaller population.
A month before the vote, Azzam Pasha, the general secretary of the Arab League, told the Egyptian newspaper Akhbar al-Yom: “Personally, I hope the Jews do not force us into this war because it will be a war of elimination and it will be a dangerous massacre which history will record similarly to the Mongol massacre or the wars of the Crusades.”
It’s from this point on that Israeli-UN relations soured. An early application for Israel to join the UN as the war raged was supported by the US and the Soviet Union but scuppered by others on the Security Council including Britain, France and Canada, who abstained.

Despite this, Israel won what was a bloody nine-month clash, dramatically expanding its territory beyond the original UN blueprint in the process.

The Arab offensive, far from improving the lives of Palestinians, resulted in more than 700,000 fleeing their homes in what they refer to as the great Nakba, or catastrophe. In the three years following the war, close to a million Jews migrated from around the world to settle in Israel, including many from surrounding Muslim countries.

Israel was finally granted UN membership after the fighting had stopped in May 1949, although Britain again abstained.

Further, Israel’s membership was made conditional on its implementation of borders outlined in Resolutions 181 and 194, the latter of which says: “Refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid”.

The Arab states originally voted against Resolution 194 - fearing demands for compensation from Jewish refugees - but soon became its strongest advocates.

Israel, for its part, has never moved to implement either resolution despite initially promising to do so. The return of the Palestinian refugees “will never happen in any way, shape or form”, said prime minister Yitzhak Shamir in 1992, echoing many similar statements before and since.

It misses two significant events though...

The first one is the reason that Britain abstained

The Balfour Declaration of 1917

November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,

Arthur James Balfour

A triumph of Foreign Office obfuscation.

The second is the 1st of November 1922 when Ataturk abolished the Ottoman Sultanate.
The Caliphate was abolished on 3 March 1924 by Ataturk's Grand National Assembly of Turkey.


The Sultanate was only a political thing. The Caliphate was religious. Ataturk effectively abolished the Muslim equivalent of the Vatican.
 
UN, eating Crow... as per SOP


UN secretary general says comments on Hamas attack were 'misrepresented,' as Israel retaliates with visa ban​

António Guterres says contentious remarks were meant to condemn Oct. 7 attack​


The United Nations' top official said on Wednesday his comments around the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas were not intended to justify the initial attack by Hamas earlier this month, saying instead that his comments were "misrepresented" in a dispute that has led to a ban on visas for UN staff.

UN Secretary General António Guterres spoke on Wednesday, hours after Israel said it would stop issuing visas to UN personnel to "teach them a lesson" over Guterres's initial comments, which were made during a meeting on Tuesday.

"I am shocked by the misrepresentations by some of my statement yesterday in the Security Council as if I was justifying acts of terror by Hamas. This is false, it was the opposite," Guterres said, speaking to reporters in New York City.

"I spoke of the grievance of the Palestinian people and in doing so, I also clearly stated, and I quote, that 'the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas.'"

The United Nations' top official said on Wednesday his comments around the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas were not intended to justify the initial attack by Hamas earlier this month, saying instead that his comments were "misrepresented" in a dispute that has led to a ban on visas for UN staff.

UN Secretary General António Guterres spoke on Wednesday, hours after Israel said it would stop issuing visas to UN personnel to "teach them a lesson" over Guterres's initial comments, which were made during a meeting on Tuesday.

"I am shocked by the misrepresentations by some of my statement yesterday in the Security Council as if I was justifying acts of terror by Hamas. This is false, it was the opposite," Guterres said, speaking to reporters in New York City.

"I spoke of the grievance of the Palestinian people and in doing so, I also clearly stated, and I quote, that 'the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas.'"

 
I find it very ironic that some of the groups who support Hamas would be eradicated if Hamas were to rule any area of the world..... I think we know who those fools are.

These groups are largely irrelevant human beings, not the groups they represent, but rather the people who are doing the protesting.
 

Israel-Gaza latest news: Hamas in Moscow for Kremlin talks​


A delegation from Hamas is visiting Moscow, the Russian Foreign Ministry has said.
Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said that the Kremlin was hosting members of the terrorist group but provided no further details.
A senior Hamas leader, Abu Marzook, was among those visiting the Russian capital.
Russia has ties to a number of actors in the Middle East, including Israel, Iran, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas.
Moscow has blamed the Israel-Palestine conflict on a failure of US diplomacy and called for an immediate ceasefire.


 
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