Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[Rifleman62]

Look at the streets of Canadian cities for a reason why nobody wants them.

 

[Quirky]

GDP of Gaza (2022 CIA) - 19 BUSD
GDP of Monaco (2022 CIA) - 9 BUSD

Impressive GDP for an open air prison.

 

[KevinB]

Impressive GDP for an open air prison.

How much of that is Israeli transfers…

 

[Kirkhill]

Some nations and autonomous regions with land areas smaller than Gaza

	U.S. Virgin Islands (US)	347 (134)
	Grenada	345 (133)
	Malta	315 (122)
	Maldives	300 (100)
	Bonaire (Netherlands)	288 (111)
	Cayman Islands (UK)	264 (102)
	Saint Kitts and Nevis	261 (101)
	Niue	260 (100)
	Akrotiri and Dhekelia (UK)	254 (98)
	Saint Pierre and Miquelon (France)	242 (93)
	Cook Islands	236 (91)
	American Samoa (US)	199 (77)
	Marshall Islands	181 (70)
	Aruba (Netherlands)	180 (69)
	Easter Island (Chile)	163 (63)
	Liechtenstein	160 (62)
	British Virgin Islands (UK)	151 (58)
	Wallis and Futuna (France)	142 (55)
	Christmas Island (Australia)	135 (52)
	Jersey (UK)	116 (45)
	Montserrat (UK)	103 (40)
	Anguilla (UK)	91 (35)
	Guernsey (UK)	78 (30)
	San Marino	61 (24)
	British Indian Ocean Territory (UK)	60 (20)
	Bermuda (UK)	54 (21)
	Saint Martin (France)	53 (20)
	Bouvet Island (Norway)	49 (19)
	Pitcairn Islands (UK)	47 (18)
	Norfolk Island (Australia)	36 (14)
	Sint Maarten (Netherlands)	34 (13)
	U.S. Minor Outlying Islands (US)	34 (13)
	Macao (China)	33 (13)
	Tuvalu	26 (10)
	Saint Barthélemy (France)	22 (8)
	Nauru	21 (8)
	Sint Eustatius (Netherlands)	21 (8)
	Cocos (Keeling) Islands (Australia)	14 (5)
	Saba (Netherlands)	13 (5)
	Tokelau (New Zealand)	12 (5)
	Gibraltar (UK)	6.8 (2.6)
	Clipperton Island (France)	6.0 (2.3)
	Ashmore and Cartier Islands (Australia)	5.0 (1.9)
	Coral Sea Islands (Australia)	3.0 (1.2)
	Spratly Islands (disputed)	2.0 (0.77)
	Monaco	2.0 (0.77)
	Vatican City	0.49 (0.19)

List of countries and dependencies by area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

....

In other news

Supreme Court of Canada says treaty entitled Alberta First Nation to larger reserve

An Alberta First Nation ended up with less land than it should have received under a treaty made with the Crown well over a century ago.

calgaryherald.com

In a 7-0 decision Friday, the top court declared the Blood Tribe was entitled to more than 420 square kilometres of additional territory, saying the Crown “dishonourably breached” the treaty provisions.

4572 Blood - New Reserve Area 1,839 km2 -

Haida Nation, B.C. recognize Haida Aboriginal title, a historic first in Canada | BC Gov News

The Province of B.C. and the Council of the Haida Nation (CHN) stood in HlGaagilda and signed the historic Gaayhllxid • Gíhlagalgang “Rising Tide” Haida Title Lands Agreement, a first-of-its-kind negotiated agreement recognizing Haida Aboriginal title in Haida Gwaii.

news.gov.bc.ca

4200 Haida - Haida Gwai 10,180 km2

 

[Kirkhill]

Re Egypt taking in Palestinians

One tale says that Egypt dumped the Philistine Sea Peoples on Canaan in the time of Ramses the Great.

Philistia (Hebrew: פְּלֶשֶׁת, romanized: Pəlešeṯ; Koine Greek (LXX): Γῆ τῶν Φυλιστιείμ, romanized: gê tôn Phulistieím) was a confederation of five main cities or pentapolis in the Southwest Levant, made up of principally Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath, and for a time, Jaffa.[1][2]

Scholars believe the Philistines were made up of people of an Aegean background that from roughly 1200 BC onwards settled in the area and mixed with the local Canaanite population,[3][4] and came to be known as Peleset, or Philistines. At its maximum territorial expansion, its territory may have stretched along the Canaanite coast from Arish in the Sinai (today's Egypt) to the Yarkon River (today's Tel Aviv), and as far inland as Ekron and Gath.

Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic records from the New Kingdom period record a group of the Sea Peoples called the pwrꜣsꜣtj, generally transliterated as either Peleset or Pulasti, as invading Egypt in the mid-13th century BC. About a century later, pharaoh Ramesses III boasted of having defeated the Peleset, and allegedly relocated them to the southern abandoned coast of Canaan,[5] recording this victory on a Medinet Habu temple inscription dated to c. 1150 BC. The pwrꜣsꜣtj are generally identified as the Philistines.[6][7] The Great Harris Papyrus, a chronicle of Ramesses' reign written no later than 1149 BC, also records this Egyptian defeat of the Philistines.[8][9]

Archaeology struggles with this tale but the genetics of the locals and the livestock tend to support it.

The Exodus from Egypt is generally dated between 1450 BCE and 1270 BCE, prior to the Sea Peoples disruption in the Mediterranean.

 

[GR66]

Very few Scots were at Culloden, much less Bannockburn. That doesn't prevent them from making up stories.

As to Gaza not being viable...

Land area of Gaza Strip - 365 km2
Land area of Monaco - 2 km2

GDP of Gaza (2022 CIA) - 19 BUSD - Per Capita GDP (2022 CIA) $5,700
GDP of Monaco (2022 CIA) - 9 BUSD- Per Capita GDP (2015 CIA) $115,700

Looks a little different when you compare Per Capita GDP's though doesn't it?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Impressive GDP for an open air prison.

Meaningless. Per capita might mean something.

 

[Kirkhill]

Meaningless. Per capita might mean something.

Tell that to China.

 

[TacticalTea]

I don't think Egypt would want to - but Europe is certainly told that it must accept millions of refugees. Canada is told that it must accept ultimately maybe hundreds of thousands of refugees.

So by that logic, why would Egypt be exempt?

Furthermore, I'm also slightly baffled by an international community that says Gazans are suffering famine & genocide - but which puts no pressure at all on Egypt to allow refugees in. The UN is very clear that, say, Germany and France must accept millions of refugees - but the UN does not feel Egypt should accept Palestinian refugees.

I don't have a dog in the hunt - but there are some jarring logical gaps there.

A few points:

Egypt is exempt because it chooses to be so. Let's not blame the Arabs for our own failure to govern.

For much of its history, the UN was ruled by a majority consisting of democracies. Today, its ruling majority is made up of authoritarian regimes.

The purpose of a system is what it does:
The purpose of the UN, now, is to weaken the democracies.

Even in Egypt, the Palestinians would have to be severely repressed, lest they form a base of operations to "liberate" their homeland. I suspect neither Egypt or Israel find this to be palatable.

 

[OldSolduer]

Europe doesn't have to do anything the UN "tells" it to do. And for that reason they should be telling the UN "FU and the horse you rode in on".

And this is true:

For much of its history, the UN was ruled by a majority consisting of democracies. Today, its ruling majority is made up of authoritarian regimes.

 

[jackamela]

A few points:

Egypt is exempt because it chooses to be so. Let's not blame the Arabs for our own failure to govern.

For much of its history, the UN was ruled by a majority consisting of democracies. Today, its ruling majority is made up of authoritarian regimes.

The purpose of a system is what it does:
The purpose of the UN, now, is to weaken the democracies.

Even in Egypt, the Palestinians would have to be severely repressed, lest they form a base of operations to "liberate" their homeland. I suspect neither Egypt or Israel find this to be palatable.

"For much of its history, the UN was ruled by a majority consisting of democracies. Today, its ruling majority is made up of authoritarian regimes.

The purpose of a system is what it does:
The purpose of the UN, now, is to weaken the democracies"

Good point.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Even in Egypt, the Palestinians would have to be severely repressed, lest they form a base of operations to "liberate" their homeland. I suspect neither Egypt or Israel find this to be palatable.

Hamas is the palestinian arm of the Muslim Brotherhood, the group which was kicked out of power by the military and is the sworn enemy of the current government.

 

[KevinB]

Hamas is the palestinian arm of the Muslim Brotherhood, the group which was kicked out of power by the military and is the sworn enemy of the current government.

I suspect if we where not in the era of digital news, that Egypt might be helping Israeli pacification efforts in Gaza…

 

[Kirkhill]

I suspect if we where not in the era of digital news, that Egypt might be helping Israeli pacification efforts in Gaza…

Egyptians using Hamas tunnels to supply the Israelis. (NB - Ironical suggestion)

 

[abduly85]

Hamas is the palestinian arm of the Muslim Brotherhood, the group which was kicked out of power by the military and is the sworn enemy of the current government.

Unfortunately, whether we like to admit or not, but the fact is that the authoratrian military regime in Egypt (propped up by the West and rich gulf countries) overthrew the first ever democratically elected government in Egypt (followed by a bloody massacre in Rabaa square in Cairo) ... So much for spreading democracy to those backward A-rabs

 

[abduly85]

I suspect if we where not in the era of digital news, that Egypt might be helping Israeli pacification efforts in Gaza…

100% agree. Sisi's military regime is complicit with Israel in its illegal blockade on Gaza.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

"Everybodys out of step except my Son Johnny"

 

[Brad Sallows]

Unfortunately, whether we like to admit or not, but the fact is that the authoratrian military regime in Egypt (propped up by the West and rich gulf countries) overthrew the first ever democratically elected government in Egypt (followed by a bloody massacre in Rabaa square in Cairo) ... So much for spreading democracy to those backward A-rabs

"We" actually don't care. Egyptians have agency and are responsible for their own governance, and there are plenty of examples around the world from which to choose. It has nothing to do with "us". Palestinians are also responsible for their own governance. If they want mad dogs, they can have mad dogs; but if their mad dogs get out of hand and they don't shoot the mad dogs, anyone else in the path is free to do so.

 

[abduly85]

Very few of the Gazans are from the events of 1948, as are very few Israeli's and in a decade or so, there will be no one left from those times on either side.

My father is still alive.. My wife's grandma is still alive and both are survivors of the 1948 Nakba, so I'm not sure what the relevance is.
Also, as per the UN, descendants of refugees retain refugee status until a durable solution is found.

Refugees | United Nations

There were 110 million people forcibly displaced world-wide at the end of June 2023. Among those were 36.4 million refugees, (30.5 million refugees under UNHCR's mandate, and 5.94 million Palestine refugees under UNRWA's mandate). ;

www.un.org

The painful reality is that Israel gave up Gaza .

Israel didn't give up Gaza in 2015. It removed an illegal settlement and redeployed its troops. Israel still controlled the air, sea and most land crossings.. Etc, It controlled what or who goes in or goes out and it even controlled the civil registry. An occupation to put it simply.

Hamas could have distanced itself from the Muslim Brotherehood and built better ties with Egypt.

Not sure if you follow Arab media, but I do, and I never seen any negative official Hamas statements against Egypt (even post military coup that removed the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt). Heck, I even recall that Hamas officially opposed Saddam's 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait (while Yasser Arafat's PLO was backing Saddam on it!)

No one is a fan of Hamas... But at least get your facts straight (watch less MEMRI TV )

 

[brihard]

@abduly85 , welcome back. You skipped over some questions I posed to you the other day. I’ll quote my prior post for your convenience:

If you care to note, the original topic on this thread is Hamas’ attack into Israel on October 7th. I mention that only because several times you’ve attempted to admonish others to ‘stay on topic’.

You haven’t expressed your opinion of same, so I’ll take this opportunity to ask. Given the pst several months’ evidence of widespread murder, kidnapping, and sexual assault in the course of that attack, what is your personal opinion of the lawfulness of the attack on Israel that Hamas specifically conducted in October, how they went about actually carrying it out, and how their fighters conducted themselves with respect to the laws of armed conflict?