Haitian leaders must all agree before Canada would lead a potential military intervention, Trudeau says

U.S. has suggested Canada could lead a multinational force in Haiti

Dylan Robertson · The Canadian Press · Posted: Nov 20, 2022 1:27 PM ET

A potential Canadian military intervention in Haiti can't happen unless all political parties in the troubled nation agree to it, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Sunday.

Speaking from Tunisia on the final day of the two-day Francophonie summit, Trudeau announced $16.5 million to help stabilize Haiti, where gangs are strangling access to fuel and critical supplies amid a worsening cholera outbreak.

About half the money is going toward humanitarian aid, and some of the rest is intended to help weed out corruption and prosecute gender-based violence.

But Haiti's government has asked for an international military intervention to combat gangs who have strangled access to fuel and critical supplies in the middle of the outbreak.

The United States wants Canada to lead any military intervention.

Trudeau said Sunday that Canada is working with CARICOM, the organization of Caribbean governments, along with "various actors in Haiti from all different political parties" to get a consensus on how the international community can help.

"It is not enough for Haiti's government to ask for it," he said. "There needs to be a consensus across political parties in Haiti before we can move forward on more significant steps."

He did not rule out eventually establishing a Canadian military mission on the ground in Haiti.

"Canada is very open to playing an important role, but we must have a Haitian consensus," Trudeau said in French.

New sanctions on prominent former officials
A Global Affairs Canada assessment team sent to Haiti to establish some understanding of what is happening and what could help has already returned and provided a report at meetings Trudeau said he attended.

He said the response is complicated because many "political elites" and "oligarchs" in Haiti have used the country's humanitarian crises "to enrich themselves on the backs of the Haitian people."

"So that is why our approach now is not about doing what one political party or the government wants," Trudeau said. "It's calling for a level of consensus and coherence from all actors in Haiti to call for solutions that we can actually get behind and lead on as an international community."

On Saturday Canada expanded its economic sanctions freezing the Canadian assets of Haitian political elites to now include former president Michel Martelly and former prime ministers Laurent Lamothe and Jean-Henry Ceant.

Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly accused the trio of helping gangs undermine Haiti's current government and called on international partners to follow Canada's lead.

"Our goal is to make sure that these people that are profiting from the violence, that are part of a corrupted system, are facing accountability," she said.

Haitian Foreign Affairs Minister Jean Victor Geneus said the new sanctions put real consequences on those causing a "nightmare" in his country.

"These sanctions will have a dissuasive impact," he said in French, while seated between Trudeau and Joly.

Geneus said gangs are raping women and girls, preventing children from attending school and not letting sick people through roadblocks when they seek medical treatment. That means refugees are leaving for neighbouring islands.

"If the necessary conditions for safety are not re-established in a fast and urgent manner, a humanitarian catastrophe is possible in Haiti," he said in French.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-haiti-intervention-sanctions-1.6658254

 

[dimsum]

If you want a cup of tea, you have to ask for "hot tea"...as I found on an American Airlines flight back from Haiti actually routed through Miami. The flight attendant looked at me like I was a four headed alien come to think of it.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Canada... who's she?

‘It’s hell’: vigilantes take to Haiti’s streets in bloody reprisals against gangs​

Members of terrorised Port-au-Prince communities armed with rocks and machetes carry out wave of lynchings

As Vélina Élysée Charlier ventured on to the streets of her conflict-stricken city last week, she encountered scenes that will haunt her for many years to come.

Armed civilians dragging bodies through the streets. Smouldering corpses. Young men with machetes chasing suspected gangsters they planned to kill.

“I’ve seen enough dead people for many lifetimes,” said the Haitian human rights activist. “Since Monday, if you get killed, you get burned. It’s kill, burn, kill, burn … It’s nothing I would want anyone else to witness. It stays with you … It’s hell, you know?”

The nightmarish events unfolding in Haiti’s coastal capital, Port-au-Prince, began before dawn on Monday when members of one of its notorious gangs reportedly tried to seize control of the city’s Turgeau area.

“What they didn’t count on was the population striking back,” said Charlier, who works in the neighbourhood.

Over the coming hours, civilians brandishing knives, rocks and handguns rose up against the heavily armed criminals who control more than 80% of Haiti’s capital and whose activities have led the United Nations to compare the situation there to a war.

As the sun rose, the bloodshed spread. In the Canapé-Vert neighbourhood, 13 suspected gangsters were beaten, stoned to death and burned after their minibus was stopped by police. In Turgeau another six men were reportedly set on fire.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...iminals-beaten-to-death-and-burned-in-capital
The violence continued on Tuesday as Canapé-Vert’s residents formed self-defence brigades and took to their barricaded streets with rocks and knives.

“We are planning to fight and keep our neighbourhood clean of these savages,” one vigilante, a 37-year-old called Jeff Ezequiel, told the Associated Press.

On Wednesday, as groups sprung up in other communities, another lynching was reported: this time, eight suspected criminals in the community of Debussy.

“We’re already dead, so we might as well die fighting,” Charlier remembered one person in Turgeau telling her.

The lynchings have sparked a strange and disturbing mix of horror, fear and optimism in Haitian communities fed up with being terrorised by the gangs.

“Seeing the population fighting back – even though there are lots of human rights violations, even though justice by the people is never the way to go because it just spirals into a cycle of violence that never stops – gives you ... the sense that people are as mad as you are,” said Charlier. “What’s happening is giving hope to the population that they can fight back.”

“It is obscene,” the author and activist Monique Clesca said of the lynchings. “But that’s what these bandits have pushed us to.”

‘It’s hell’: vigilantes take to Haiti’s streets in bloody reprisals against gangs

Members of terrorised Port-au-Prince communities armed with rocks and machetes carry out wave of lynchings

www.theguardian.com

 

[dimsum]

Canada... who's she?

‘It’s hell’: vigilantes take to Haiti’s streets in bloody reprisals against gangs​

Members of terrorised Port-au-Prince communities armed with rocks and machetes carry out wave of lynchings

As Vélina Élysée Charlier ventured on to the streets of her conflict-stricken city last week, she encountered scenes that will haunt her for many years to come.

Armed civilians dragging bodies through the streets. Smouldering corpses. Young men with machetes chasing suspected gangsters they planned to kill.

“I’ve seen enough dead people for many lifetimes,” said the Haitian human rights activist. “Since Monday, if you get killed, you get burned. It’s kill, burn, kill, burn … It’s nothing I would want anyone else to witness. It stays with you … It’s hell, you know?”

The nightmarish events unfolding in Haiti’s coastal capital, Port-au-Prince, began before dawn on Monday when members of one of its notorious gangs reportedly tried to seize control of the city’s Turgeau area.

“What they didn’t count on was the population striking back,” said Charlier, who works in the neighbourhood.

Over the coming hours, civilians brandishing knives, rocks and handguns rose up against the heavily armed criminals who control more than 80% of Haiti’s capital and whose activities have led the United Nations to compare the situation there to a war.

As the sun rose, the bloodshed spread. In the Canapé-Vert neighbourhood, 13 suspected gangsters were beaten, stoned to death and burned after their minibus was stopped by police. In Turgeau another six men were reportedly set on fire.
Haiti: at least 12 suspected criminals beaten to death and burned in capital
The violence continued on Tuesday as Canapé-Vert’s residents formed self-defence brigades and took to their barricaded streets with rocks and knives.

“We are planning to fight and keep our neighbourhood clean of these savages,” one vigilante, a 37-year-old called Jeff Ezequiel, told the Associated Press.

On Wednesday, as groups sprung up in other communities, another lynching was reported: this time, eight suspected criminals in the community of Debussy.

“We’re already dead, so we might as well die fighting,” Charlier remembered one person in Turgeau telling her.

The lynchings have sparked a strange and disturbing mix of horror, fear and optimism in Haitian communities fed up with being terrorised by the gangs.

“Seeing the population fighting back – even though there are lots of human rights violations, even though justice by the people is never the way to go because it just spirals into a cycle of violence that never stops – gives you ... the sense that people are as mad as you are,” said Charlier. “What’s happening is giving hope to the population that they can fight back.”

“It is obscene,” the author and activist Monique Clesca said of the lynchings. “But that’s what these bandits have pushed us to.”

‘It’s hell’: vigilantes take to Haiti’s streets in bloody reprisals against gangs

Members of terrorised Port-au-Prince communities armed with rocks and machetes carry out wave of lynchings

www.theguardian.com

I'm not really sure whether the above is an argument to go, or not to go, to Haiti.

Edit - this line later in the article is pretty telling:

Charlier rejected calls for a foreign intervention. “I recognise the police cannot deal with this alone,” the activist said, but nor did she want thousands of heavily armed foreign troops to return “to put a Band-Aid on a cancer”.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'm not really sure whether the above is an argument to go, or not to go, to Haiti.

Edit - this line later in the article is pretty telling:

Infantry be like

 

[OldSolduer]

I'm not really sure whether the above is an argument to go, or not to go, to Haiti.

Edit - this line later in the article is pretty telling:

Let them sort it out. It will be bloody and gruesome BUT they at some point will figure it out. It will take a very long time.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

 

[Maxman1]

Joly says Canadians 'want to do more' to help Haiti as military intervention looms​

Joly says Canadians 'want to do more' to help Haiti as military intervention looms

OTTAWA - Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly says Canada is determining how it can best help with an international military intervention in Haiti, but a fellow Liberal MP says it's unlikely that will involve any military role for Canada.

"Canada has always been involved in issues related to Haiti. We will continue to be," Joly told reporters Tuesday morning on Parliament Hill, in French.

"We want to do more. So we'll thus continue these diplomatic conversations, and I would say that we'll also continue to support solutions that are by and for Haitians."

The United Nations Security Council approved a multinational force Monday to help combat violent gangs in Haiti, which Kenya has offered to leadand expects to kick off by January.

Joly said she's spoken with her counterpart from Kenya as well as Canada's ambassador to the United Nations, Bob Rae, on how Canada can be of help.

Haiti's unelected prime minister asked for an international intervention last year, and the idea has been divisive among Haitians though it is supported by the UN and Washington.

Joly noted that Ottawa has always been involved in issues pertaining to Haiti, and said she expects Canada will do more, without specifying what that would involve.

Haiti has faced a profound security crisis exacerbated by brazen criminal gangs since mid-2021, leading to rampant violence, cholera outbreaks and restricted access to water, food and medical care.

Washington had asked Canada to lead a military intervention, but Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said it's unclear whether such a move would lead to long-term stability, citing multiple previous interventions that he argued made Haiti even less stable.

Liberal MP Emmanuel Dubourg, who was born in Haiti, said it's more likely Canada would send technical and intelligence assistance to forces stationed on the ground or in neighbouring countries, instead of its own soldiers.

"The prime minister was really clear about that, he said we're going to help as much as we can, but no Canadian troops in Haiti," he said, adding that Canada could send more humanitarian help.

Bloc Quebecois foreign-affairs critic Stephane Bergeron said it's clear Canada will need to take some sort of role, given its historical links with Haiti. He said whatever Canada does must be in response to what Haitians ask for.

Canada's top military general told media in March that there weren't enough armed forces available to lead such a mission.

Joly has instead issued sanctions on multiple political and economic elite in Haiti, arguing this will help lead to a consensus among political actors on how other countries can best support Haitians to find stability and eventually hold an election.

She noted Canada has also allocated millions to help the Haitian National Police as it tries to restore order.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Oct. 3, 2023.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Joly says Canadians 'want to do more' to help Haiti as military intervention looms​

Joly says Canadians 'want to do more' to help Haiti as military intervention looms

OTTAWA - Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly says Canada is determining how it can best help with an international military intervention in Haiti, but a fellow Liberal MP says it's unlikely that will involve any military role for Canada.

"Canada has always been involved in issues related to Haiti. We will continue to be," Joly told reporters Tuesday morning on Parliament Hill, in French.

"We want to do more. So we'll thus continue these diplomatic conversations, and I would say that we'll also continue to support solutions that are by and for Haitians."

The United Nations Security Council approved a multinational force Monday to help combat violent gangs in Haiti, which Kenya has offered to leadand expects to kick off by January.

Joly said she's spoken with her counterpart from Kenya as well as Canada's ambassador to the United Nations, Bob Rae, on how Canada can be of help.

Haiti's unelected prime minister asked for an international intervention last year, and the idea has been divisive among Haitians though it is supported by the UN and Washington.

Joly noted that Ottawa has always been involved in issues pertaining to Haiti, and said she expects Canada will do more, without specifying what that would involve.

Haiti has faced a profound security crisis exacerbated by brazen criminal gangs since mid-2021, leading to rampant violence, cholera outbreaks and restricted access to water, food and medical care.

Washington had asked Canada to lead a military intervention, but Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said it's unclear whether such a move would lead to long-term stability, citing multiple previous interventions that he argued made Haiti even less stable.

Liberal MP Emmanuel Dubourg, who was born in Haiti, said it's more likely Canada would send technical and intelligence assistance to forces stationed on the ground or in neighbouring countries, instead of its own soldiers.

"The prime minister was really clear about that, he said we're going to help as much as we can, but no Canadian troops in Haiti," he said, adding that Canada could send more humanitarian help.

Bloc Quebecois foreign-affairs critic Stephane Bergeron said it's clear Canada will need to take some sort of role, given its historical links with Haiti. He said whatever Canada does must be in response to what Haitians ask for.

Canada's top military general told media in March that there weren't enough armed forces available to lead such a mission.

Joly has instead issued sanctions on multiple political and economic elite in Haiti, arguing this will help lead to a consensus among political actors on how other countries can best support Haitians to find stability and eventually hold an election.

She noted Canada has also allocated millions to help the Haitian National Police as it tries to restore order.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Oct. 3, 2023.

Let’s see…

How about starting with your Government not cutting the defence budget and lets see where that goes?

 

[Kirkhill]

Let’s see…

How about starting with your Government not cutting the defence budget and lets see where that goes?

If ever there were a case for Roshel Senator MRAPS over LAV 6s....

 

[OldSolduer]

Joly says Canadians 'want to do more' to help Haiti as military intervention looms​

Joly says Canadians 'want to do more' to help Haiti as military intervention looms

OTTAWA - Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly says Canada is determining how it can best help with an international military intervention in Haiti, but a fellow Liberal MP says it's unlikely that will involve any military role for Canada.

"Canada has always been involved in issues related to Haiti. We will continue to be," Joly told reporters Tuesday morning on Parliament Hill, in French.

"We want to do more. So we'll thus continue these diplomatic conversations, and I would say that we'll also continue to support solutions that are by and for Haitians."

The United Nations Security Council approved a multinational force Monday to help combat violent gangs in Haiti, which Kenya has offered to leadand expects to kick off by January.

Joly said she's spoken with her counterpart from Kenya as well as Canada's ambassador to the United Nations, Bob Rae, on how Canada can be of help.

Haiti's unelected prime minister asked for an international intervention last year, and the idea has been divisive among Haitians though it is supported by the UN and Washington.

Joly noted that Ottawa has always been involved in issues pertaining to Haiti, and said she expects Canada will do more, without specifying what that would involve.

Haiti has faced a profound security crisis exacerbated by brazen criminal gangs since mid-2021, leading to rampant violence, cholera outbreaks and restricted access to water, food and medical care.

Washington had asked Canada to lead a military intervention, but Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said it's unclear whether such a move would lead to long-term stability, citing multiple previous interventions that he argued made Haiti even less stable.

Liberal MP Emmanuel Dubourg, who was born in Haiti, said it's more likely Canada would send technical and intelligence assistance to forces stationed on the ground or in neighbouring countries, instead of its own soldiers.

"The prime minister was really clear about that, he said we're going to help as much as we can, but no Canadian troops in Haiti," he said, adding that Canada could send more humanitarian help.

Bloc Quebecois foreign-affairs critic Stephane Bergeron said it's clear Canada will need to take some sort of role, given its historical links with Haiti. He said whatever Canada does must be in response to what Haitians ask for.

Canada's top military general told media in March that there weren't enough armed forces available to lead such a mission.

Joly has instead issued sanctions on multiple political and economic elite in Haiti, arguing this will help lead to a consensus among political actors on how other countries can best support Haitians to find stability and eventually hold an election.

She noted Canada has also allocated millions to help the Haitian National Police as it tries to restore order.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Oct. 3, 2023.

Canadians want to do more? I am sure its JT wanting to preen in front of the UN saying "look look at us we are peacekeepers again" or some such drivel.

Hard pass on this one, and in my mind the nation selected to "lead" this mission is suspect as well.

 

[medicineman]

Canadians want to do more? I am sure its JT wanting to preen in front of the UN saying "look look at us we are peacekeepers again" or some such drivel.

Hard pass on this one, and in my mind the nation selected to "lead" this mission is suspect as well.

This Canadian wasn't polled...and I don't think we should be going back YET AGAIN...though if we do send troops back, just buy an area and build a CFS there that is garrisoned and make it a posting for an infantry company or battalion group and rotate people through like Germany or something like Cyprus/Bosnia. Just make a fucking decision and stick with it - though I'd prefer the whole "Stay Out" option.

 

[Maxman1]

Let’s see…

How about starting with your Government not cutting the defence budget and lets see where that goes?

 

[GR66]

If ever there were a case for Roshel Senator MRAPS over LAV 6s....

Absolutely! Roshel should sell them to Kenya ASAP.

 

[ueo]

Infantry be like

Ever been there? Infantry with all the legalese that goes with opening fire etc don't want to play. Plus we havent got any ammo left beyond30 or so rds. Shades ofRourlkes Drift and Cyprusearly 70's.

 

[OldSolduer]

Ever been there? Infantry with all the legalese that goes with opening fire etc don't want to play. Plus we havent got any ammo left beyond30 or so rds. Shades ofRourlkes Drift and Cyprusearly 70's.

Cyprus - we were limited to a 5 round mag that could not be placed on the rifle.
Mind you the combatants were not all that serious about fighting each other or the UN.

 

[dimsum]

Cyprus - we were limited to a 5 round mag that could not be placed on the rifle.
Mind you the combatants were not all that serious about fighting each other or the UN.

Sounds like a great deployment to me!

 

[daftandbarmy]

Sounds like a great deployment to me!

It was fun to watch from the Sovereign Base Areas

 

[OldSolduer]

Sounds like a great deployment to me!

I was there twice - first in 1976 two years after the Turk invasion. It was still pretty touchy. Then again in 82/83 and it was quite benign except for the Turk that shot the Greek dead just as we were arriving. THAT was touchy as well.
We used to sit out on the Ormophita plain listening for them shooting at each other. It was very cool.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I was there twice - first in 1976 two years after the Turk invasion. It was still pretty touchy. Then again in 82/83 and it was quite benign except for the Turk that shot the Greek dead just as we were arriving. THAT was touchy as well.
We used to sit out on the Ormophita plain listening for them shooting at each other. It was very cool.

Three tours for myself; Nov 75 - Apr 76 (3 PPCLI); May - Nov 82 (Int Op); Mar - Sep 92 (Int Op). So, while normally the tours were a pretty good go, in my first tour I had a Greek-Cypriot National Guardsman stick a SMG in my face, fortunately nothing happened.

 

[OldSolduer]

Sounds like a great deployment to me!

Actually it was pretty good.