Global Warming/Climate Change Super Thread
- Thread starter Cdn Blackshirt
- Start date
This bothers me.
I don't know if the trend of increasing temperatures around the globe is man-made. I don't know if CO2 is the culprit. I don't know if human induced Global Warming is fact or fiction. What I do know is that if you take a look at Toronto during the summer, on most days what you see is nice thick cloud of Smog. Same goes for practically all other major cities in the world.
Is this good? HELL NO. I don't really care about Global Warming and if its true or not. Global Warming isn't going to kill us, its the smog and other air pollution that will. And that is why we need to change and become more environmentally friendly.
Of course most people ignore this.
I don't know if the trend of increasing temperatures around the globe is man-made. I don't know if CO2 is the culprit. I don't know if human induced Global Warming is fact or fiction. What I do know is that if you take a look at Toronto during the summer, on most days what you see is nice thick cloud of Smog. Same goes for practically all other major cities in the world.
Is this good? HELL NO. I don't really care about Global Warming and if its true or not. Global Warming isn't going to kill us, its the smog and other air pollution that will. And that is why we need to change and become more environmentally friendly.
Of course most people ignore this.
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The problem in this case is time, energy and attention is being diverted away from Smog and other pollution problems in order to deal with "Global Warming". Since the planet Mars is currently warming up as well, you can see the amount of effort being put into the Global Warming scaremongering will be about as useful in climate change as debates on how many angels can dance on the end of a pin.
Speak up, and tell politicians to pull their heads out of their A** and deal with real problems like smog, not mythical problems like "man made Global Warming".
Real problams like this:
http://cjunk.blogspot.com/2007/02/dont-eat-yellow-snow.html
Speak up, and tell politicians to pull their heads out of their A** and deal with real problems like smog, not mythical problems like "man made Global Warming".
Real problams like this:
http://cjunk.blogspot.com/2007/02/dont-eat-yellow-snow.html
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Your "Mars" comment was worth looking into. Mars Is Warming, NASA Scientists Report. I wonder if all our Global Warming alarmists have pondered that. Do they have some way of blaming that on mankind? I also wonder if Mars was one of the signatories of the Koyoto Accord? ;D
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Alas, George, the Climate Change scaremongers will either look at you in disbelief, deny it is happening, or accuse you of being in the pay of Big Oil should you bring up factual evidence such as current climate changes therough the Solar System, or historical evidence like the Medeaval Warm Period of @ 800-1300 AD (when the climate was somewhat warmer than it is today).
I am sure someone, somewhere, can explain how George W Bush and Karl Rove have changed the output of the sun (probably through the use of no compete contracts with KBR) Mars is exempt from the Kyoto accord due to some clever backroom dealings between Marvin the Martian and the Chinese and Indian delegations. ;D
I am sure someone, somewhere, can explain how George W Bush and Karl Rove have changed the output of the sun (probably through the use of no compete contracts with KBR) Mars is exempt from the Kyoto accord due to some clever backroom dealings between Marvin the Martian and the Chinese and Indian delegations. ;D
the information is out there. A couple of good sites to check regularly.
http://ff.org/centers/csspp/misc/index.html
http://www.climateaudit.org/
good article today . . http://calgarysun.canoe.ca/NewsStand/News/Columnists/Corbella_Licia/2007/02/07/3548993-sun.html
http://ff.org/centers/csspp/misc/index.html
http://www.climateaudit.org/
good article today . . http://calgarysun.canoe.ca/NewsStand/News/Columnists/Corbella_Licia/2007/02/07/3548993-sun.html
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http://news.uns.purdue.edu/x/2007a/070201LadischBio.html
This is why Kyoto etc is Bogus. This and all the windmills in Pincher Creek, and those guys who can screen-print solar cells to make shingles. Point is the environment is getting better, and our kids will have a better standard of living than us no matter what we do.
This is why Kyoto etc is Bogus. This and all the windmills in Pincher Creek, and those guys who can screen-print solar cells to make shingles. Point is the environment is getting better, and our kids will have a better standard of living than us no matter what we do.
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Look for a lot of McArthy-type name calling in regards to Kyoto skepticism. Anyone in the scientific community not on board is accused of being in Exxon's pocket, while the rest of us are called 'deniers'.
There's a lot of things that can be done to help curb pollution, but I'm no more willing than the next guys to have it cost me my mortgage nor do I think it serves anyone's interest to have a bunch of money leaving the country either.
I've said it before, I don't think this would have been as much of an issue if there wasn't such a mild beginning to winter inthe centre of the universe Toronto.
There's a lot of things that can be done to help curb pollution, but I'm no more willing than the next guys to have it cost me my mortgage nor do I think it serves anyone's interest to have a bunch of money leaving the country either.
I've said it before, I don't think this would have been as much of an issue if there wasn't such a mild beginning to winter in
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I called this social effect NEOPURITANISM 20 years ago.
In our "enlightened" age we don't say " God will get you for that ".
Still, we can't resist the notion that were headed for trouble.
Our economy and standard of living was built on cheap energy,
so it's natural to attack the source of our collective material wealth.
People spend a lot time making up the reasons.
Global warming, as advertised, has become a bad religion.
When I go to church I want to feel better - not doomed.
Does anyone remember the Soviet "weather control" satellite that crashed in the arctic about 28 years ago? The media bought the weather control bit completely.
And I never really believed that our exhaust pipes had a lot to do with the weather either.
The CO2 in our atmosphere is in the very low parts per billion range.
The amounts have been far higher.( not recently )
An extremely small variation in the sun's intensity could have profound change on our climate, and it does change.
Everyone here is quite right in pointing out that legitimate environmental concern is getting swept aside and somehow it's just fine that China gets a walk on the environmental scorecard. Also it is wrong to squander a resource or to pollute
recklessly.
What I think.......
Kyoto is simply not to Canada's strategic or economic advantage.
The carbon credit part of the plan is insane.
Canadians could easily end up paying a heavy price for using Canadian
fossil fuels!
Now one more thing.....
How is it, I find myself agreeing with the opinions and values expressed
on ARMY .ca almost 100% of the time? Is there some sort of conspiracy!? ;D
In our "enlightened" age we don't say " God will get you for that ".
Still, we can't resist the notion that were headed for trouble.
Our economy and standard of living was built on cheap energy,
so it's natural to attack the source of our collective material wealth.
People spend a lot time making up the reasons.
Global warming, as advertised, has become a bad religion.
When I go to church I want to feel better - not doomed.
Does anyone remember the Soviet "weather control" satellite that crashed in the arctic about 28 years ago? The media bought the weather control bit completely.
And I never really believed that our exhaust pipes had a lot to do with the weather either.
The CO2 in our atmosphere is in the very low parts per billion range.
The amounts have been far higher.( not recently )
An extremely small variation in the sun's intensity could have profound change on our climate, and it does change.
Everyone here is quite right in pointing out that legitimate environmental concern is getting swept aside and somehow it's just fine that China gets a walk on the environmental scorecard. Also it is wrong to squander a resource or to pollute
recklessly.
What I think.......
Kyoto is simply not to Canada's strategic or economic advantage.
The carbon credit part of the plan is insane.
Canadians could easily end up paying a heavy price for using Canadian
fossil fuels!
Now one more thing.....
How is it, I find myself agreeing with the opinions and values expressed
on ARMY .ca almost 100% of the time? Is there some sort of conspiracy!? ;D
ArmyRick
Army.ca Veteran
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Global climate change is part of nature, simple as that. I did some research and found out some interesting tid bits of info about the reality of climate change.
Could you imagine trying to explain the last three ice ages that occured to some hippy enviromentalist?
"I guess when the last ice age was ending (10,000 years ago) we should blame the whooly mammoths for owning too many cars and saber tooth cats for burning too much fossil fuel"
Could you imagine trying to explain the last three ice ages that occured to some hippy enviromentalist?
"I guess when the last ice age was ending (10,000 years ago) we should blame the whooly mammoths for owning too many cars and saber tooth cats for burning too much fossil fuel"
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This should bode well for those of us in Alberta, where we struggle to recruit new soldiers because all the healthy young men of age are off in the oil fields, making $100,000 a year. Once Kyoto comes into place, all of them will be unemployed and BAM! New Territorial Battalions fill up before you can say "economic recession"
With Kyoto, I'm sure glad I'm a Reservist, because when I'm laid off at my civilian job, my condo is devalued by 50%, and they start handing out food ration card; I'll still have some form of financial security and won't have to resort to committing suicide so my family can collect my life insurance. Then again, if the Liberals come back, who knows what will happen to the military? (My guess is nothing good)
With Kyoto, I'm sure glad I'm a Reservist, because when I'm laid off at my civilian job, my condo is devalued by 50%, and they start handing out food ration card; I'll still have some form of financial security and won't have to resort to committing suicide so my family can collect my life insurance. Then again, if the Liberals come back, who knows what will happen to the military? (My guess is nothing good)
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Article from a coauthor of a book coming out soon on another climate driver is interesting. The basic line of thought is the sun has more effect on Earth's climate than just sunlight. It also may have a major influence due to changes in the strength of it's magnetic field. The field's interaction with cosmic rays may play a roll in some cloud formation. Strong field, less cosmic rays reach Earth, less cloud formation then warmer planet or region of the planet. Weak field, more cosmic rays reach Earth, more clouds then cooler planet.
An experiment that hints we are wrong on climate change.
An experiment that hints we are wrong on climate change.
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I find myself a little concerned with the potentialy blasphemous tone I seem to have
started..........Sorry.
I think you generally got my point though.
As a person of faith - I have a hard time accepting the TV preachers.
I recognize the methods, the charisma, the cult of personality that
has been adopted by the "neopuritans".
The subject of magnetic and other radiation has always intrigued me.
As a technical guy,(electronics) I am acutely aware that not all energy can be seen.
I am also aware that science NEVER has the last word-It is a work in progress
by defintion.
Remember back in grade school when they taught us that we were overdue for an ice age? That the molten core of Earth was cooling? That we could only taste sweet,
salty and sour on specific locations of our tongue? "They" were wrong.
The truth is - I don't know what the truth is.
But I do know that there is very little truth in the "truth" of today.
But I'm just preaching to the choir, so I'll shut up now.
BTW - why is that earth's core still not cooling? ;D
started..........Sorry.
I think you generally got my point though.
As a person of faith - I have a hard time accepting the TV preachers.
I recognize the methods, the charisma, the cult of personality that
has been adopted by the "neopuritans".
The subject of magnetic and other radiation has always intrigued me.
As a technical guy,(electronics) I am acutely aware that not all energy can be seen.
I am also aware that science NEVER has the last word-It is a work in progress
by defintion.
Remember back in grade school when they taught us that we were overdue for an ice age? That the molten core of Earth was cooling? That we could only taste sweet,
salty and sour on specific locations of our tongue? "They" were wrong.
The truth is - I don't know what the truth is.
But I do know that there is very little truth in the "truth" of today.
But I'm just preaching to the choir, so I'll shut up now.
BTW - why is that earth's core still not cooling? ;D
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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DBA said:
That would follow in line with previous posts on the Global Warming taking place on Mars. (Reply #10 Mars Is Warming, NASA Scientists Report )
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Flip said:
Flip - I had no intention of blaspheming. Apologies if that was the perception.
My point is, was and continues to be that in a world where an increasingly large proportion of the "educated" define themselves as unbelievers they present themselves with a conundrum. Good and bad things continue to happen regardless of whether or not there is a God. It is easy to ignore the good things and declare them to be normal. It is harder to ignore the bad things and declare THEM to be normal as well.
For people of faith it is still problematical that God allows bad things to happen but at least some one is in charge. They have no control but someone does
For people without faith, they live in a world where everyday is Russian Roulette without the comfort of a sentient being at the trigger. They have no control and no one else does either.
I believe that because fewer people have a faith to adhere to when bad things happen then they are more inclined to hope/believe that some mortal created the disaster or at least could have prevented it.
It is easier to live in a world where we are destroying it because we drive SUVs, cut down trees and don't recycle rubber bands, than accept the fact that at any moment the sun could unleash a flare that could send us all back to the stone age.
Cheers.
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A great site, the USGS. Scroll around, it is full of information that debunks the so called Global Warming issue as advertised. Not that it is not happening just that it is a natural progression of the planet and its cycles to cool and heat.
A very interesting part is the issue of arctic ice melt.....the concept is that the volume of the water in the sea is the same whether the water is a solid or liquid. Also the concept that the worlds oceans can uptake CO2 better once the ice melts and thus will reduce the CO2 in the air. Ice is an inhibitor to CO2 uptake of the ocean....who'd a thought given the crap in the left media reports.
I'm all for reducing the pollution in the air not green house gas, but by default in controlling the air pollution we will by knock-on effect also arrest some green house gas.
www.usgs.gov
A very interesting part is the issue of arctic ice melt.....the concept is that the volume of the water in the sea is the same whether the water is a solid or liquid. Also the concept that the worlds oceans can uptake CO2 better once the ice melts and thus will reduce the CO2 in the air. Ice is an inhibitor to CO2 uptake of the ocean....who'd a thought given the crap in the left media reports.
I'm all for reducing the pollution in the air not green house gas, but by default in controlling the air pollution we will by knock-on effect also arrest some green house gas.
www.usgs.gov
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S_Baker said:
Big issue for us out here on the Wet Coast is too much snow-pack in the mountains. Now they are complaining that the river that Gaia decreed for us isn't big enough to hold the water that Man has apparently created. Therefore Man needs to make the river bigger to hold his extra water - dredging and dyking are the order of the day. Go figure. And this after a couple of years of Man not supplying enough snow.
I can hear those ancient Mesopotamians laughing now - what with all their weird notions about Dams and God and all.
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On Kyoto:
We can make the targets if we really wanted to. But we don't. In order to meet the targets, at this point, we would have to do so many drastic things it would be harmfull to our economy. What happened wasn't a surprise, the government that signed the international agreement did nothing substantial to meet the obligations. There were a few measures, awareness campains (Remember Rick Mercer - one Ton challenge) but it all did very little. As much as I abhor smear ads, "We didn't get it done" is frankly hitting the nail on the head.
When the current government came out and said (I'm paraphrasing here) "International agreements are good for international countries. We are in Canada and we know how we can best affect out greenhouse gas emitions. We can come up with a plan that will be better than Kyoto while not damaging our economy." Then they came out with their Made in Canada plan ... ... ... That poor poor woman. Few times in my life have I seen a politician fall on their sword for their leader, Rona Ambrose did just that. She presented exactly what the governments plan was and was publicly ridiculed but then was replaced with someone else when a real plan was decided upon. Now the current government seems to be full on board with the environment, coming out with rather interesting ideas - which I wont rehash here because they are still not aiming at meeting Kyoto.
"Coming after a five-year-old letter surfaced in which Prime Minister Stephen Harper called the protocol a money-sucking socialist scheme, Dion's motion calls on the House of Commons to declare that there is "overwhelming scientific evidence'' that climate change is the result of human activity."
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070201/baird_climate_070201?s_name=&no_ads=
Pain Without Gain: Canada's Kyoto Challenge
http://www.cme-mec.ca/Kyoto/index.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/Kyoto/timeline.html
On Global Warming being caused by humans:
The research is in, opinions formed, opinions bought, rewards offered for evidence to the contrary but the research is in. If you want to argue that "not everyone agrees" or "all the facts aren't in". Well one can make that case. On the flip side of that I can say that not everyone agrees with where baby's come from. Not everyone agrees that they come from Mommies. I mean "what do storks do"? If you're going to report on baby's you have to include opposing view points, so in sex ed you must present fairly and give equal time to Storks. I know this is silly, but so is arguing that we're having an effect on the climate. We are releasing massive amounts of greenhouse gases every day. It is proven that these gases will increase the temperature of the earth. So much so that it is even causing another measurable effect called global dimming. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_prog_summary.shtml
On another issue:
If you take some fruit flies, put them in a jar with a limited source of food (say a jar of jelly) they will thrive. They will multiply until they are so numerous theyeat all of the food. Then they all die out. The food source is limited, non renewable once it is used it is gone. The same can be said of our dependence on fossil fuels. We use it, and then it is gone. There has been a huge population explosion since "discovering" uses for fossil fuels. Every year not only are we consuming more but the rate by which we are increasing our consumption is increasing. Opinions vary as to how many decades we have left before we run out, but we will run out. Even if it is 100 or 150 years from now it will happen. Do we sit around and hope for an amazing new technology to suddenly appear that will let us all do whatever we want? Or do we get to work on finding solutions to problems that are coming our way. Do it now or do it later. Please remember what happened on Easter Island. I think it will be better the sooner we start to move out economy onto renable sources the easier time we'll have doing it.
Now there are many heath issues associated with pollution. It just makes sense to start moving our economy onto runnable resources. Yes there will be issues, no it isn't perfect right now, but we know we will have to eventually, so lets get the ball rolling.
We can make the targets if we really wanted to. But we don't. In order to meet the targets, at this point, we would have to do so many drastic things it would be harmfull to our economy. What happened wasn't a surprise, the government that signed the international agreement did nothing substantial to meet the obligations. There were a few measures, awareness campains (Remember Rick Mercer - one Ton challenge) but it all did very little. As much as I abhor smear ads, "We didn't get it done" is frankly hitting the nail on the head.
When the current government came out and said (I'm paraphrasing here) "International agreements are good for international countries. We are in Canada and we know how we can best affect out greenhouse gas emitions. We can come up with a plan that will be better than Kyoto while not damaging our economy." Then they came out with their Made in Canada plan ... ... ... That poor poor woman. Few times in my life have I seen a politician fall on their sword for their leader, Rona Ambrose did just that. She presented exactly what the governments plan was and was publicly ridiculed but then was replaced with someone else when a real plan was decided upon. Now the current government seems to be full on board with the environment, coming out with rather interesting ideas - which I wont rehash here because they are still not aiming at meeting Kyoto.
"Coming after a five-year-old letter surfaced in which Prime Minister Stephen Harper called the protocol a money-sucking socialist scheme, Dion's motion calls on the House of Commons to declare that there is "overwhelming scientific evidence'' that climate change is the result of human activity."
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070201/baird_climate_070201?s_name=&no_ads=
Pain Without Gain: Canada's Kyoto Challenge
http://www.cme-mec.ca/Kyoto/index.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/Kyoto/timeline.html
On Global Warming being caused by humans:
The research is in, opinions formed, opinions bought, rewards offered for evidence to the contrary but the research is in. If you want to argue that "not everyone agrees" or "all the facts aren't in". Well one can make that case. On the flip side of that I can say that not everyone agrees with where baby's come from. Not everyone agrees that they come from Mommies. I mean "what do storks do"? If you're going to report on baby's you have to include opposing view points, so in sex ed you must present fairly and give equal time to Storks. I know this is silly, but so is arguing that we're having an effect on the climate. We are releasing massive amounts of greenhouse gases every day. It is proven that these gases will increase the temperature of the earth. So much so that it is even causing another measurable effect called global dimming. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_prog_summary.shtml
On another issue:
If you take some fruit flies, put them in a jar with a limited source of food (say a jar of jelly) they will thrive. They will multiply until they are so numerous theyeat all of the food. Then they all die out. The food source is limited, non renewable once it is used it is gone. The same can be said of our dependence on fossil fuels. We use it, and then it is gone. There has been a huge population explosion since "discovering" uses for fossil fuels. Every year not only are we consuming more but the rate by which we are increasing our consumption is increasing. Opinions vary as to how many decades we have left before we run out, but we will run out. Even if it is 100 or 150 years from now it will happen. Do we sit around and hope for an amazing new technology to suddenly appear that will let us all do whatever we want? Or do we get to work on finding solutions to problems that are coming our way. Do it now or do it later. Please remember what happened on Easter Island. I think it will be better the sooner we start to move out economy onto renable sources the easier time we'll have doing it.
Now there are many heath issues associated with pollution. It just makes sense to start moving our economy onto runnable resources. Yes there will be issues, no it isn't perfect right now, but we know we will have to eventually, so lets get the ball rolling.
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