Global Warming/Climate Change Super Thread

[TacticalTea]

"We'll just make [X] more expensive so people do less of it."

That's not how it works. People decide what they'll do less of, generally choosing from the bottom of a long list which might have [X] close to the top. Raise the cost of something and then wonder why a bunch of apparently unrelated businesses fail. I expect belt-tightening to generally happen on the basis of last in, first out.

The useful life of a normal car ... 300,000 km, for me. No battery changes?

If we let our energy sector do its work, that would reduce the impact of the carbon tax anyway.

The latter's aim, as @kev994 explained, is to push companies to become cleaner, not particularly to change consumer behaviour.

Paying another 100$ in fuel a year won't make me sell my car, but when it translates to millions of dollars for a firm, it will push it to modernize. Especially if combined with credits and subsidies that finance innovation.

 

[Dana381]

It sound logical but I disagree. Companies DO invest to reduce their emissions because their emissions cost money. You’re suggesting that if there wasn’t a carbon tax then companies, out of the goodness of their hearts, would just invest their ‘spare capital’ into greener technologies just to feel good about themselves, rather than paying out a dividend. Are you kidding me? That’s insane, they’re going to do what’s more profitable, and with a carbon tax, it becomes increasingly more profitable to invest in more efficient machinery, especially when it’s due for replacement anyway.
There are currently incentives to improve your home insulation, especially for low income homes, it becomes more attractive to take advantage of these when the opportunity cost is higher. It’s free and people done bother, so maybe they will when it costs more to not do it.

Companies don't invest in green tech out of the goodness of their heart, they do it to virtue signal. They like the optics of being green and are afraid of the optics of being a polluter. That is until they are hanging on by a thread, then they will do whatever they can to survive. I've seen this with repairs, a normally good company will start operating unsafe trucks when they are broke.

Many trucking companies are hanging on to older trucks and even selling newer trucks to buy more older ones. I'm talking class 8 semi trucks.
I replaced the entire frame on a 99 pete dump truck last summer, something unheard of 10 years ago.

The price of a pre-dpf 2006 Kenworth T-800 is more than a 2013 def equipped similar one. Other makes and models are similar. The reason is companies are avoiding emissions gear because it's unreliable and expensive to repair.

Three years ago this was happening a little but in the last year, since diesel has spiked it has been happening much more.

When companies are healthy financially they tend to buy new trucks and replace them often. With fuel prices cutting into budgets so much that becomes less often. I don't work in factories but I'm sure the same happens there with industrial equipment. Energy costs can't always be passed on to consumers.

 

[Quirky]

You want to include the emissions from mining for batteries (lithium is generally removed from salt brine by the way), but the gas emissions from the cars don’t account for the emissions produced pulling oil out of the ground. Find another straw to grasp at.

Modern vehicles with their endless BS emission control systems are cleaner than ever. This is never about emissions, it’s about making gasoline vehicles too expensive to operate and to force people into EV. Gas comes from our super dirty oil sands while the open pit lithium mines are extra clean and not at all harmful to the environment. Not ours anyway so not our problem right?

When comes down to it, the practicality of EV is not there, especially here in the prairies outside city limits. You’ll either freeze to death in the winter waiting for your appliance to charge in the McDonald’s parking lot, or die from old age plugging it into a standard outlet because charging infrastructure isn’t available.

 

[kev994]

Modern vehicles with their endless BS emission control systems are cleaner than ever. This is never about emissions, it’s about making gasoline vehicles too expensive to operate and to force people into EV. Gas comes from our super dirty oil sands while the open pit lithium mines are extra clean and not at all harmful to the environment. Not ours anyway so not our problem right?

Again, lithium comes from salt brine, the open pit mine popular on social media that purports to be an “open pit lithium mine” is actually a copper mine. I don’t know what you’re smoking but nobody is trying to get rid of internal combustion engines just to ‘stick it to the little guy’.

Media

On the media page of the Volkswagen Group you will find the latest news and contacts of our brands and companies, dates and publications.

www.volkswagenag.com

Edit: here’s what “strip mining” looks like

Oil sands surface mining - Energy Education

energyeducation.ca

 

[Quirky]

Again, lithium comes from salt brine, the open pit mine popular on social media that purports to be an “open pit lithium mine” is actually a copper mine. I don’t know what you’re smoking but nobody is trying to get rid of internal combustion engines just to ‘stick it to the little guy’.

Media

On the media page of the Volkswagen Group you will find the latest news and contacts of our brands and companies, dates and publications.

www.volkswagenag.com

Edit: here’s what “strip mining” looks like

Oil sands surface mining - Energy Education

energyeducation.ca

Seems very environmentally friendly…

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6594008

 

[suffolkowner]

Companies don't invest in green tech out of the goodness of their heart, they do it to virtue signal. They like the optics of being green and are afraid of the optics of being a polluter. That is until they are hanging on by a thread, then they will do whatever they can to survive. I've seen this with repairs, a normally good company will start operating unsafe trucks when they are broke.

Many trucking companies are hanging on to older trucks and even selling newer trucks to buy more older ones. I'm talking class 8 semi trucks.
I replaced the entire frame on a 99 pete dump truck last summer, something unheard of 10 years ago.

The price of a pre-dpf 2006 Kenworth T-800 is more than a 2013 def equipped similar one. Other makes and models are similar. The reason is companies are avoiding emissions gear because it's unreliable and expensive to repair.

Three years ago this was happening a little but in the last year, since diesel has spiked it has been happening much more.

When companies are healthy financially they tend to buy new trucks and replace them often. With fuel prices cutting into budgets so much that becomes less often. I don't work in factories but I'm sure the same happens there with industrial equipment. Energy costs can't always be passed on to consumers.

just a slight diversion. Are Peterbuilts and Kenworths considered good trucks now. Like 10 yrs ago I wouldnt touch them with a 10 foot pole.

 

[kev994]

Seems very environmentally friendly…

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6594008

I don’t understand your argument. You’re concerned about “strip mining” in other countries, that isn’t actually taking place, but you’re OK with strip mining in Alberta because… here’s where I’m lost, it seems inconsistent.

 

[kev994]

just a slight diversion. Are Peterbuilts and Kenworths considered good trucks now. Like 10 yrs ago I wouldnt touch them with a 10 foot pole.

Everyone who owns a Kenworth thinks that Peterbuilt is Junk, I assume the opposite is also true.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Seems very environmentally friendly…

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6594008

Especially with all those EV Bulldozers, Excavators, and Dump Trucks they use at those mines.....


Oh wait.

 

[suffolkowner]

Everyone who owns a Kenworth thinks that Peterbuilt is Junk, I assume the opposite is also true.

yeah and when I said 10 I guess its 15 yrs but still. I mean trucks are pretty simple and the components are all interchangeable

 

[suffolkowner]

Especially with all those EV Bulldozers, Excavators, and Dump Trucks they use at those mines.....


Oh wait.

some are hybrid and or have regenerative breaking not really a new thing. Letourneaus have been that way for ever. But there are no free rides theres a cost to pay somewhere. Hydroelectric dams flood huge areas often with resultant mercury poisoning issues plus the massive amounts of concrete etc.. doesnt mean we shouldnt try to find better solutions

 

[kev994]

some are hybrid and or have regenerative breaking not really a new thing. Letourneaus have been that way for ever. But there are no free rides theres a cost to pay somewhere. Hydroelectric dams flood huge areas often with resultant mercury poisoning issues plus the massive amounts of concrete etc.. doesnt mean we shouldnt try to find better solutions

This one’s neat, they say it never needs to be charged… it’s taking the payload downhill and going uphill when it’s empty. Otherwise physics and stuff… law of conservation of energy

Say Watt: This massive EV never needs to plug in

Did we mention it's a 45-ton dump truck?

driving.ca

 

[rmc_wannabe]

some are hybrid and or have regenerative breaking not really a new thing. Letourneaus have been that way for ever. But there are no free rides theres a cost to pay somewhere. Hydroelectric dams flood huge areas often with resultant mercury poisoning issues plus the massive amounts of concrete etc.. doesnt mean we shouldnt try to find better solutions

Not arguing with you that we need to find better solutions. I am just pointing out that where we are now is just the initial start of moving towards a life outside fossil fuels.

The first Model T rolled off the line in 1908, but folks in North America were still using horse drawn carriages until the 1950s in some cases because the demand/affordability wasn't there for most people. Sound familiar?

As ambitious as it is to see ICB engines die out and EV become the norm in the next 15-20 years, it's not attainable for the masses and therefore will be like spitting on a forest fire in the grand scheme of things.

Personally, I would rather see an expansion of mass transit initiatives to replace our bigger polluters (jet aircraft) with more sustainable options, but that would put the onus on industry and government, rather than Joe Q Public "doing more to save the earth."

 

[Brad Sallows]

So then 400,000 kms on the first battery (replaced under warranty) is enough for you? The electric motors are not terribly expensive and they’ve made some improvements in lubrication since those originals were produced.

Sure, if I could afford and wanted a Tesla. But I assume that if you're throwing up outliers as evidence, there isn't anything better to be had.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Paying another 100$ in fuel a year won't make me sell my car, but when it translates to millions of dollars for a firm, it will push it to modernize. Especially if combined with credits and subsidies that finance innovation.

Costs are generally passed along to customers. The push to change depends on whether the companies think they can do something that will give them a competitive advantage. But that's offset by the need not to do anything if the commodity is in high demand. Policies that result in high oil prices are in a tug-of-war with policies intended to promote innovation.

 

[Brad Sallows]

This one’s neat, they say it never needs to be charged… it’s taking the payload downhill and going uphill when it’s empty. Otherwise physics and stuff… law of conservation of energy

If only work was downhill from home and home was downhill from work.

 

[kev994]

Sure, if I could afford and wanted a Tesla. But I assume that if you're throwing up outliers as evidence, there isn't anything better to be had.

here’s the degradation history of every Tesla ever built, sorry it’s 18 months old and stops at 200,000 miles, luckily that’s as far as you want.

Tesla data shows battery degradation is limited but not all packs are created equal

Tesla has released new data showing that battery degradation over high mileage is limited, which is good news, but we...

electrek.co

 

[kev994]

.

 

[Brad Sallows]

here’s the degradation history of every Tesla ever built, sorry it’s 18 months old and stops at 200,000 miles, luckily that’s as far as you want.

It's irrelevant. I prefer older vehicles on which I can save money by doing work myself.

 

[kev994]

If only work was downhill from home and home was downhill from work.

I guess that would be useful if you wanted to take your mining dump truck home at night. Alternatively, if you live at the bottom of the hill you could take some rocks home and dump them on the lawn, decorative rocks are a thing.