Global Warming/Climate Change Super Thread

[suffolkowner]

Interestingly Canada would drop to 3rd per capita behind US and RUS if we stopped shipping all the BC coal ripped out of the Rockiness and sold to China and Asia for their steel production.

Math: 27 megatonnes of coal exported by Canada in 2021, which at 2.68 tonnes CO2 per tonne of coal burned = 72 megatonnes CO2/yr or approx 2mt/capita, so 19 - 2 = 17mt per capita.

Coal, monthly production and exports

Data presented at the national and provincial levels, by coal types and uses (bituminous, sub-bituminous, etc.) and by volume of production and exports. Not all combinations are available.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

interesting does the carbon exported to china not get captured there? To me it should count where it is used

 

[Kat Stevens]

And in Manitoba and Ontario (I haven’t lived in the other provinces) your larger carbon tax rebate accounts for that.

So I’m giving the gov a no interest loan every time I fill up that they will spend to fix the weather, and they give it back at the end of the year? Pass, I’ll just keep my money, thanks.

 

[kev994]

I don't get a carbon rebate tax, because apparently I make too much money.

I didn’t realize some of them are income based, surprisingly, the first one on the list, BC, is income base AND the LEAST controversial. I think it also existed long before the federal version.

Carbon Tax Rebates & Climate Action Incentive Explained (by Province)

What is the Climate Action Incentive rebate? What is carbon tax & how do rebates work in 2022? Province by province, here's a closer look at who's eligible & how much.

www.canadadrives.ca

 

[kev994]

interesting does the carbon exported to china not get captured there? To me it should count where it is used

Just guessing, but I would think that the costs involved with pulling it out of the ground (eg running the equipment and transporting it to Port) get allocated here while the costs of burning it would get allocated to China.

 

[kev994]

So I’m giving the gov a no interest loan every time I fill up that they will spend to fix the weather, and they give it back at the end of the year? Pass, I’ll just keep my money, thanks.

They give it ahead of time actually, or at least Manitoba did, Ontario pays quarterly but we got the first and second quarter at the end of the 1st, I think that was a setup issue.

 

[Kat Stevens]

They give it ahead of time actually, or at least Manitoba did, Ontario pays quarterly but we got the first and second quarter at the end of the 1st, I think that was a setup issue.

I’ve never seen a dime back. That’ll teach me for having a decent dirty hands job, I guess.

 

[Quirky]

I think the idea is to gradually increase the cost so that people can make decisions on whether to buy a more efficient vehicle as it’s due for normal replacement. The amount of people in this country who drive a giant pickup to their jobs downtown and never take them off the pavement is mind boggling.

Never mind for a second the freedom to choose, but not everyone can practically drive an EV that doesn't have a method of charging it at home (live in a condo or apartment). I agree that practically, you don't need a giant pick-up to drive on pavement to downtown office jobs, but that giant used pick-up was $6000, while EVs are out of reach, cost wise, for a large portion of the population, this is assuming they can afford to purchase it in the first place. These carbon taxes to avoid the giant pick-ups lumbering into DT Toronto won't achieve the desired effect.

I remember reading that the City of Kelowna or Vernon, can't remember now, was looking at updating their city pick-up with a new F-150. The EV Lightning was considered but they estimated it would take at least 10 years to offset the cost of fuel for the difference in MSRP, that's IF the dealer doesn't include mark-ups on the EV. Also not considered was the cost of any battery replacements, which is a environmental disaster in itself, into the cost difference. People buying Tesla's over equivalent sized sedans are clueless if they purchase them to avoid high fuel prices. They will never see any savings considering the large cost differentials. EVs are a garbage gasoline alternative that is pushed onto us by governments instead of letting the free market dictate the demand.

 

[suffolkowner]

Just guessing, but I would think that the costs involved with pulling it out of the ground (eg running the equipment and transporting it to Port) get allocated here while the costs of burning it would get allocated to China.

Thats how I thought it worked but??

 

[Good2Golf]

interesting does the carbon exported to china not get captured there? To me it should count where it is used

I’m not sure TBH. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Govt made sure it wasn’t counted.

Morally, one can’t help look at the mountains of coal at Roberts Point waiting to sail to China without thinking that is eventually going to make its way into the environment at CO2.


Now…fairs fair, so if Canadians are getting raked over the coals for per capita CO2 production, I also want to get a credit for my share of 315,000,000,000 trees in Canada turning CO2 into oxygen!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/09/16/the-countries-of-the-world-ranked-by-their-tree-wealth/

By math, I personally have about 9,000 trees to my credit scrubbing CO2. Where my credit for 9000 trees X 48lbs CO2 removal/year/tree / 2000 lbs/ton = 215 tons/year of CO2 turned into oxygen.

Could Global CO2 Levels be Reduced by Planting Trees?

Could planting trees make enough difference to impact increased CO2 levels on a global level? The idea seems simple enough, but probably not. Here's why.

www.co2meter.com

 

[kev994]

Never mind for a second the freedom to choose, but not everyone can practically drive an EV that doesn't have a method of charging it at home (live in a condo or apartment). I agree that practically, you don't need a giant pick-up to drive on pavement to downtown office jobs, but that giant used pick-up was $6000, while EVs are out of reach, cost wise, for a large portion of the population, this is assuming they can afford to purchase it in the first place. These carbon taxes to avoid the giant pick-ups lumbering into DT Toronto won't achieve the desired effect.

I remember reading that the City of Kelowna or Vernon, can't remember now, was looking at updating their city pick-up with a new F-150. The EV Lightning was considered but they estimated it would take at least 10 years to offset the cost of fuel for the difference in MSRP, that's IF the dealer doesn't include mark-ups on the EV. Also not considered was the cost of any battery replacements, which is an environmental disaster in itself, into the cost difference. People buying Tesla's over equivalent sized sedans are clueless if they purchase them to avoid high fuel prices. They will never see any savings considering the large cost differentials. EVs are a garbage gasoline alternative that is pushed onto us by governments instead of letting the free market dictate the demand.

The battery replacement myth is nonsense, it’s hyped up BS. They’re not wearing out. Nissan Leaf is perhaps an exception because there’s no thermal management but even those batteries are lasting for the useful life of a normal car. Total cost of ownership of a Tesla Model 3 is comparable to a Camry, there are numerous articles about this, I’ll link the first one I found. The trouble with comparing prices of a Lighting, for example, is that the demand is so high that they’ve only produced them in the top trim levels. A comparably equipped gas version is not that far off, but nobody expects their town to equip its fleet with luxury pickups, that should resolve itself as supply of batteries increases.
I’m not sure about other provinces, but in Ontario the condo boards are obligated to let you install a charger, there’s some exceptions if it’s not technically feasible. Not for everyone but a suitable alternative for the vast majority of the population.
Bicycles are still suitable for everyone.
Ack, there are very few EVs on the used market but that will resolve eventually.

Tesla Model 3 vs. Toyota Camry: Ultimate Ownership Cost Analysis

Usually, the Tesla Model 3 and the Toyota Camry aren't really cars you'd compare. One is an EV, the other a gas-powered econobox. However, when you put things in terms of cost to own, the picture becomes a little clearer. In fact, you may just be surprised at the results. They'll certainly...

www.motorbiscuit.com

 

[Quirky]

The battery replacement myth is nonsense, it’s hyped up BS. They’re not wearing out. Nissan Leaf is perhaps an exception because there’s no thermal management but even those batteries are lasting for the useful life of a normal car. Total cost of ownership of a Tesla Model 3 is comparable to a Camry, there are numerous articles about this, I’ll link the first one I found. The trouble with comparing prices of a Lighting, for example, is that the demand is so high that they’ve only produced them in the top trim levels. A comparably equipped gas version is not that far off, but nobody expects their town to equip its fleet with luxury pickups, that should resolve itself as supply of batteries increases.
I’m not sure about other provinces, but in Ontario the condo boards are obligated to let you install a charger, there’s some exceptions if it’s not technically feasible. Not for everyone but a suitable alternative for the vast majority of the population.
Bicycles are still suitable for everyone.
Ack, there are very few EVs on the used market but that will resolve eventually.

Tesla Model 3 vs. Toyota Camry: Ultimate Ownership Cost Analysis

Usually, the Tesla Model 3 and the Toyota Camry aren't really cars you'd compare. One is an EV, the other a gas-powered econobox. However, when you put things in terms of cost to own, the picture becomes a little clearer. In fact, you may just be surprised at the results. They'll certainly...

www.motorbiscuit.com

That article is from Sept 2021. Tesla.com lists a base model 3 at $60k USD. Toyota.com lists a Camry starting at $25,000 USD. I’d only imagine in Canada the costs are even more divided.

 

[kev994]

That article is from Sept 2021. Tesla.com lists a base model 3 at $60k USD. Toyota.com lists a Camry starting at $25,000 USD. I’d only imagine in Canada the costs are even more divided.

Here you go, up to date and even compares the Kona EV with the Kona gas. Gas was $2 a litre at the time.

The True Cost - Clean Energy Canada

If one were to pick two top issues on the minds of Canadians in 2022, climate change and the cost of living would surely be obvious contenders. Indeed, “climate change” was ranked the most pressing issue facing Canada over the next decade by every age group in the country in a late 2021 public...

cleanenergycanada.org

 

[TacticalTea]

Trucks aren't a human right. People do just fine in Europe and Japan with public transportation.

We're also not asking everyone to get an electric vehicle right away.

Now of course we're a massive country, so we can't expect our transportation infrastructure to mirror Europe's, but we can make progress towards it.

There are externalities to pollution, and it's high time we addressed those externalities. Actions and consequences, I harp on that all the time. Additionally, those issues would be better addressed at the local level: anti truck measures that make sense in Toronto are obviously nonsensical in rural Alberta.

So. A carbon tax isn't tyrannical or outrageous. It's an efficient solution that truthfully, barely hurts people, especially when rebates or similar programs are applied.

What's dumb is hiking the carbon tax during a period of hyperinflation and artificially creating an energy crisis by irresponsibly hamstringing our world-leading (in terms of cleanliness) energy sector.

Open the valves, let energy flow to replace dirty coal with NG, and help people get through the economic crisis instead of hiking taxes.

 

[Quirky]

Here you go, up to date and even compares the Kona EV with the Kona gas. Gas was $2 a litre at the time.

The True Cost - Clean Energy Canada

If one were to pick two top issues on the minds of Canadians in 2022, climate change and the cost of living would surely be obvious contenders. Indeed, “climate change” was ranked the most pressing issue facing Canada over the next decade by every age group in the country in a late 2021 public...

cleanenergycanada.org

I don’t doubt that a website called “cleanenergycanada” would favour an EV. The carbon emissions required to mine the EVs battery factor into that calculation, along with the $20k replacement cost? Unlikely.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"We'll just make [X] more expensive so people do less of it."

That's not how it works. People decide what they'll do less of, generally choosing from the bottom of a long list which might have [X] close to the top. Raise the cost of something and then wonder why a bunch of apparently unrelated businesses fail. I expect belt-tightening to generally happen on the basis of last in, first out.

The useful life of a normal car ... 300,000 km, for me. No battery changes?

 

[Quirky]

Open the valves, let energy flow to replace dirty coal with NG, and help people get through the economic crisis instead of hiking taxes.

Not feasible in Canada. Let the Middle East get all the cash.

Germany agrees 15-year liquid gas supply deal with Qatar | Germany | The Guardian

Racing to wean itself off Russian gas supplies, Germany is set to buy 2m tonnes of liquid gas from Gulf state

amp.theguardian.com

 

[kev994]

I don’t doubt that a website called “cleanenergycanada” would favour an EV. The carbon emissions required to mine the EVs battery factor into that calculation, along with the $20k replacement cost? Unlikely.

You want to include the emissions from mining for batteries (lithium is generally removed from salt brine by the way), but the gas emissions from the cars don’t account for the emissions produced pulling oil out of the ground. Find another straw to grasp at.

 

[kev994]

The useful life of a normal car ... 300,000 km, for me. No battery changes?

So then 400,000 kms on the first battery (replaced under warranty) is enough for you? The electric motors are not terribly expensive and they’ve made some improvements in lubrication since those originals were produced.

This 2015 Tesla Model S Has Over 400,000 Miles (700,000 KM)! - Motor Illustrated

This 2015 Tesla Model S has accumulated over 400,000 miles in the last six years. It was used as an Uber car which explains the high mileage

motorillustrated.com

 

[kev994]

, along with the $20k replacement cost? Unlikely.

it also costs $20k to get the engine in your Hyundai replaced if you take it to the dealer and want a new one. But nobody does that, you get a used one or get it rebuilt. Similarly, there are companies that will rebuild your battery in the unlikely event that it fails outside of warranty. Most likely it’s an issue with a single cell at a reasonable cost. The problem with social media is that people can say what’re crap they want and people believe them. Dude from TikTok is misleading people for clicks, that car is under warranty, among many other issues with his story.

Ontario man who missed oil changes responsible for $19,000 engine replacement

An Ontario man who missed his oil change is now on the hook for a $19,000 engine replacement despite the vehicle being under warranty.

beta.ctvnews.ca

 

[TacticalTea]

Not feasible in Canada. Let the Middle East get all the cash.

Germany agrees 15-year liquid gas supply deal with Qatar | Germany | The Guardian

Racing to wean itself off Russian gas supplies, Germany is set to buy 2m tonnes of liquid gas from Gulf state

amp.theguardian.com

Yeah. This debacle is our equivalent to Germany's shutting down nuclear.