General Hillier needs a lesson in democracy a la Pike

[Pike]

In recent days he has become an increasingly outspoken advocate of Canada's involvement in Afghanistan. Whether the Forces are or should be as important as multiculturalism or medicare may be -- to understate the matter -- a question of some debate. But that debate is a debate for, by, and among citizens and politicians. The general should butt out

Why? What are new recruits told when they first join. "You do not have a political opinion. It is part of being a professional in this profession"

Why is General Hiller appearing on daytime talk shows and nightly newscasts telling the Canadian people WHY we should support the mission?  regardless if we should or not, HE should not be involved in the debate

THe reason we abide by this rule (the army has no business in politics) in democratic Western societies is because there are countries in the world where military commanders take over the government and form dictatorships. As a General he should lead by example....am I right?

 

[George Wallace]

Pike

Are you going to stay around and defend these statements?

First we hear from your ilk that the People don't know enough of what our military is doing and why, and now when the Chief of Defence Staff comes out and tells you, you accuse him of being "Political".  Of course he is "Political".  Every person of "Power", be it in the Government, the Military or Business, is 'political'.  That is the nature of Leadership.  Every aspect of Life is "Political".  Man is a very political animal. 

 

[Hunter]

She's baaaaaaaack!!!!

edit - Darn it George you beat me.  Pike please stay around in this discussion.  I would love to read your response to what you've just invited upon yourslf.   Then again I like lots of stupid stuff.   

As a General he should lead by example....am I right?
Heres a great pish poor article on this topic:
http://www.breakthesilence.ca/politics/March%2006/HILLER.htm

Yes you are right, and he's doing a fine job.

 

[medicineman]

If his (and ergo mine and all other service members') political masters had actually told the Canadian public what we are in fact doing in Afghanistan earlier, he wouldn't have to be explaining it himself.  Incidentally, as the military subject matter expert within the DND and adviser to the Privy Council, who better to tell the public what it is we are doing?  He isn't getting into the debate as it were, just informing the public what it is that is being done and why they should support the PEOPLE involved in the mission.

BTW, the sixth Prinicple of Leadership - Know your troops and promote their welfare.  I'd have to say that is what he is doing, and therefore leading by example.

MM

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I am glad the CDS is finally getting involved and not staying in the corner and barks at the MNDs command. Pike please spare us you seem to relish in confrontation.

 

[SweetNavyJustice]

I don’t know if I necessarily agree with you Pike.  I think that the CDS has a large role to play in promoting the activities of the Canadian Forces to the public.  After all the Gen. Hillier a public figure that has been appointed by the government into his position. 

Think of it in this regard.  The CDS is the head of our organization, and as such he has to compete for government resources from other departments.  By promoting the values and activities of the Canadian Forces he is showing the people just what their tax dollars go towards.  We are no longer faceless soldiers, sailors, and aircrew going about our business in service to our country. 

As for the separation between politics and military functions, I agree that this is an important divide that needs to be maintained.  We don’t want our military running our country as that is the job of the elected officials.  This is why military member are forbidden from running for any public office while still serving.  That having been said, it doesn’t mean that members of the Canadian Forces and in particular our leader should remain silent or try and stifle the importance or the work that we are doing or its need to continue. 

This is ever important today when the media and different individuals take it upon themselves to distort information such as your site “break the silence”.  This weekend there is a peace rally happening in Victoria in support of stopping the “occupations” of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Haiti.  I wonder how many people at this rally will be holding placards supporting the Taliban, Saddam or the other leaders who repressed and killed their own people before there was foreign military intervention? 

As far as I’m concerned, if you don’t support the fact that our troops are supporting the democratic governments of these nations in freeing these people, then you are supporting the actions of the previous regimes who oppressed them. 

 

[Edward Campbell]

Constitutionally, Pike, the CDS is required to be apolitical – that is to say (s)he must not express any preference for the policies of one party over another.  That does not mean the CDS cannot hold and propagate opinions, within the CDS’ acknowledged areas of responsibility and expertise: the structure and management of the armed forces and the conduct of military operations.

The CDS spoke out after the government of the day ordered the CF to Afghanistan.  As soon as that order was given he had a duty to explain to the members of the Canadians Forces and to their families what is going to happen and why.  That’s a job for the CDS – not the cheap, ward-heeling politicians and not the weak-kneed, spineless cheerleaders for the political parties.  That’s what Gen. Hillier did: he used the press, like a good 21st century military leader should, he explained what, when, how and why to the soldier and their families.  He used colourful, quotable, soldiers’ language.  That ensured his message got spread by a media whose one and only job is to fill the white spaces between the adverts.  He also expressed his professional opinion on areas well within his areas of expertise and responsibility – again he made good use of a lazy media which always laps up whatever is spoon-fed to it.

One would have to be – and I acknowledge that many, many Canadians are – terminally stupid to confuse Gen. Hillier’s public comments with unconstitutional conduct.
 

 

[Brad Sallows]

>But that debate is a debate for, by, and among citizens and politicians. The general should butt out

Debate, then.  Don't seek to muzzle sources of information - engage them.  An intelligent person of common sense needs about three seconds to realize that a public servant who has been permitted to speak out for any length of time without being fired must have the support of his political masters, and indeed may have been explicitly encouraged to do so.

>Why is General Hiller appearing on daytime talk shows and nightly newscasts telling the Canadian people WHY we should support the mission?  regardless if we should or not, HE should not be involved in the debate

Why not?  From where do you like to obtain information - tarot cards?

>THe reason we abide by this rule (the army has no business in politics) in democratic Western societies is because there are countries in the world where military commanders take over the government and form dictatorships.

I can see where allowing the senior uniformed member of the CF places us in imminent danger of a coup.  Grip your hysteria.

 

[medicineman]

One would have to be – and I acknowledge that many, many Canadians are – terminally stupid to confuse Gen. Hillier’s public comments with unconstitutional conduct.

Eloquently put.

MM

 

[George Wallace]

............  Grip your hysteria.

;D     I am sure you had another word in mind, than "hysteria".




Very well stated Edward.  Shall we let Pike contribute some of her views?


Oh!  I am sorry.  She performed another "Hit N Run".

 

[Patrolman]

General Hillier is one of,if not the most popular Chief Of Defence Staff in recent times! If you expect anyone on this site to criticize his leadership abilities or his personal character you are sadly mistaken.
Who are you anyways? Fill out your Profile so we can see where you have learned what it takes to be a leader.
Of course he is a politician in as much as any other person appointed by the Canadian government. If you haven't noticed the military is a very political organization. We represent Canada by carrying out the wishes of the Prime Minister. Quite political wouldn't you say!
Who better to explain to the Canadian people why there soldiers are serving in Afghanistan than someone who commanded the mission in that country prior to being appointed CDS.
WAKE UP! and consider the nonsense you are writing. I think you have probably offended a lot of people with your post!

 

[SweetNavyJustice]

Just a thought, but why don't some of us go over to Pike's "Break the Silence" forum and continue, or make some posts.  After all, Pike fired the first salvo.....

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Pike unless you start to back up your points,your posts will be removed, We do not take kindly to trolling. 24 hours to engage in a meaningful debate or you will be introduced to the warning system

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Pike unless you start to back up your points,your posts will be removed, We do not take kindly to trolling. 24 hours to engage in a meaningful debate or you will be introduced to the warning system

This seems to be the same troll who is stirring up crap over in the Politics Canada Forum...do it ex and put us all out of our misery. You have my blessing (for one)

 

[Hunter]

The best way to deal with someone like that is to dissect their arguments in discussion.  I think everyone here should join breakthesilence.ca and inundate her site with posts.  You know, all the stuff we get flamed for here.  Cross-post, repetitive topics, lots of msn speak, stuff like that.  ;D

 

[George Wallace]

Yes!  In fact it seems that she is indeed Spamming Sites with her rhetoric.  From the Politics Canada Forum site this contribution:

General Hiller needs a lesson in Democracy
Pike


10 Posts
Posted - 13/03/2006 :  6:53:25 PM        
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In recent days he has become an increasingly outspoken advocate of Canada's involvement in Afghanistan. Whether the Forces are or should be as important as multiculturalism or medicare may be -- to understate the matter -- a question of some debate. But that debate is a debate for, by, and among citizens and politicians. The general should butt out

Why? What are new recruits told when they first join. "You do not have a political opinion. It is part of being a professional in this profession"

Why is General Hiller appearing on daytime talk shows and nightly newscasts telling the Canadian people WHY we should support the mission? regardless if we should or not, HE should not be involved in the debate

THe reason we abide by this rule (the army has no business in politics) in democratic Western societies is because there are countries in the world where military commanders take over the government and form dictatorships. As a General he should lead by example....am I right?

Heres a great article on this topic:
http://www.breakthesilence.ca/politics/March%2006/HILLER.htm

Looks like a canned post.    Very familiar.                                               Even has the identical Typos.   :

 

[old medic]

Looks like a canned post.    Very familiar.                                              Even has the identical Typos.  :

They are just bulk mail postings to bring traffic to her own website.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Ban!

 

[scm77]

They are just bulk mail postings to bring traffic to her own website.

Doesn't that violate the Conduct Guidlines?

Professional Authors, Journalists, Retailers and Public Personalities

While authors, journalists, retailers, etc are encouraged to participate in the Forums, posts with the express purpose of self-promotion will be removed unless prior permission from the site owner has been granted. Interested parties should review the advertising options offered by Army.ca.q

I'm with CFL. 

 

[Strike]

This is from another of her posts...

1) I am a woman
2) I am a busy person. Im part owner of a business, Im a Univeristy student, I work two jobs and I run a webpage. I simply dont have time to come here every hour and tend to you all.
3) Thanks Chimo, I will take your advice and post differently
4) Im not nessesarily trying to inflate hits on my website, BUT the articles I do post on my website I believe are very informative and need to be read. Im not trying to sell advertising space, i dont care about that.
Anyway back to the TOPIC...

Seems like she's trying to get hits to me.  I think we should oblige...