quadrapiper
Sr. Member
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Perhaps in aid of the same sort of national infrastructure support or capability building as the multi-yard shipbuilding scheme?PuckChaser said:
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quadrapiper said:
What sort of long-term buys can we be expected to complete from a STOL/small aircraft manufacturer? The ship building scheme works because it'll take 20 years to get everything built, plus the constant refit work. Viking could build 6 Buffalos in a year and we wouldn't hear from them for 30 years when we needed more.
Something tells me this isn't over.
I'm not as familiar with this area as fighter capabilities, but from what I know the C-295 isn't the better aircraft... the C-27 won hands down the first iteration and nothing has really changed since then. The C-27J is significantly faster (key for reaching remote locations quickly). As someone joked to me "I guess the government is mandating people stay alive for an extra few hours while in distress. The C-27 also had much more power, which was seen as extremely useful while flying in mountainous terrain. Furthermore the C-295 does not have cockpit ceiling vision, another strike against it while flying in difficult terrain. Finally there is the Cabin size, which the -295 is a bit of a tight squeeze for a sartech.
Basically this decision was based on Cost and the new Value proposition format, which allowed IRBs to dictate what the Military gets. Yes the C-295 is better than the Buffallos, but its significantly less capable than the C-27. It just puts our personnel and the civilians we serve at greater risk.
I'm not as familiar with this area as fighter capabilities, but from what I know the C-295 isn't the better aircraft... the C-27 won hands down the first iteration and nothing has really changed since then. The C-27J is significantly faster (key for reaching remote locations quickly). As someone joked to me "I guess the government is mandating people stay alive for an extra few hours while in distress. The C-27 also had much more power, which was seen as extremely useful while flying in mountainous terrain. Furthermore the C-295 does not have cockpit ceiling vision, another strike against it while flying in difficult terrain. Finally there is the Cabin size, which the -295 is a bit of a tight squeeze for a sartech.
Basically this decision was based on Cost and the new Value proposition format, which allowed IRBs to dictate what the Military gets. Yes the C-295 is better than the Buffallos, but its significantly less capable than the C-27. It just puts our personnel and the civilians we serve at greater risk.
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It's standard for CAF procurement. The best equipment doesn't win, the cheapest with most kickbacks to the economy wins. Nothings changed in 30 years.
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PuckChaser said:
And you base this assessment on your years of experience in requirements definition and procurement?
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
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There several good examples of procurement done with substandard results; pick any of the latest models of operational boots for the Army and The Clunkers in the RCAF. LSVW. TACVEST. Cyclone. .........
It's not absolutely necessary to understand the procurement process when you have to live with the results that fall short of requirements. My shitty issued flashlight is an example, and I spent $40USD of my own money at the PX to replace it with something that actually worked when I needed it to.
It's not absolutely necessary to understand the procurement process when you have to live with the results that fall short of requirements. My shitty issued flashlight is an example, and I spent $40USD of my own money at the PX to replace it with something that actually worked when I needed it to.
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dapaterson said:
Sometimes all that experience in requirements definition and procurement doesn't mean those individuals have any clue about how things actually work on the ground. Ask some of the people who had boots fall apart after 3 weeks in an office about how they don't know how good they have it.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
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Dimsum said:
I think of mine as my "inspection flashlight" for those times when appearance counts and usefulness doesn't ;D
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dapaterson said:
I think someone having years of actually using the results of projects should provide them the experience they need to make such comments.
RaceAddict
Jr. Member
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I don't speak legalese, so I can't make heads nor tails of the http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/ website, but what are the chances of using the Access to Information Act to get access to the final procurement report with all the relevant info about the capabilities of the aircraft, the company's ISS programs, ITBs, etc?
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As good as any other citizen or resident submitting such a request through ATIP. Don't forget, there are nominal request fees so if the response is lengthy, you would have to pay those fees. You would not be able to pick only those documents you would like. You would get an inter response noting set hong along the lines of, "Your requested information is comprised of XXX pages of material for which the processing fee is $XX.XX. Do you wish to proceed with your request?"
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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There are ways to reduce the fees, by selecting dates, locations, no duplicates(which they are supposed to remove) and actual document names rather than a generic requests. Sometimes when i get a massive request and I have a good guess about what they really want I send suggestions to the ATIP office they can pass on to the requester. Frankly I am a big believer in the ATIP process and will do my best to ensure the right documents go out.
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Very good and comprehensive article on endless FWSAR acquisition and C295 vs C-27J by someone who seems to really know his stuff and has good sources:
Mark
Ottawa
Mark
Ottawa
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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MarkOttawa said:
Very damning of the Liberal's politics in military aircraft purchases.
I just saw on the news their finalizing the deal to purchase Super Hornets.
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