Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[The Bread Guy]

... anyone who tries to simplify this whole issue to a black/white, “either you vax with us, or you’re against us” issue is failing to appreciate that there is room for all (and that includes politicians) to consider the full range of choice, rights, responsibilities and consequences to the issue. I think many, far too many, are still taking an overly-narrow partition of the consideration space on the issue.

More shades of grey out there than a lot of people want to admit, for sure.

 

[Haggis]

Just caught the tail end of a press conference by the leader of the NDP. Questions being raised about employing the military to clear the streets in Ottawa. Did we learn nothing from Oka?

Apples and oranges. Oka was an overtly armed resistance with a very narrow scope of complaint. The Warriors made no attempts to portray themselves as peaceful and vowed to resist, violently, lethally, to the end. The fact that no one was killed or seriously injured on either side is proof that the ACP/ALEA operation was well carried out..

 

[QV]

It's a mistake to keep stating this is 10% vs 90%.... those numbers are generally used to demonstrate that almost 90% of the people have been vaccinated. But there is a great many vaccinated people that are against mandates and further restrictions.

This convoy protest is just the vocal few. There is far more than 10% of the population in this country against mandates and further restrictions.

It's probably closer to 50/50 for or against mandates/restrictions at this point.

 

[OldSolduer]

I just watched an Ottawa city councillor on CBC, and she related several anecdotes about Ottawa citizens who’d been harassed and assaulted. All anecdotal with no statistics. There should be records of arrests or complaints but none of that was quoted. And CBC didn’t ask that either.
Now I’ve gone on record as saying this protest is silly and it is but I haven’t seen a good solid argument against it.
The protesters have been vilified. Tried and found guilty by the PM and others.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If these people had not held the locals hostage I’d be more sympathetic to an extent. The court injunction that is being asked for isn’t even to remove the protesters it’s to get them to stop honking their horns. The locals are sick of that and the oh so nice occupiers can’t even give them that. They aren’t interested in negotiating in good faith.

I'm going to say I am not sure I believe you. First of all no one is being held hostage, you're using the same inflammatory language as the MSM.

Secondly your political slant on this has been pretty evident for a long time. You can deny it, and maybe you believe it. But I don't. No matter how well behaved the protest was you were always going to be against it. And that's fair, just be who you are.

I can tell you, on the surface, anyone who is against our COVID restrictions or mandates and doesn't like Trudeau is likely going to get my support. Once I dig into their motivations that may change. I am a card carrying member of the CPC, that's been no secret on here.

 

[OldSolduer]

If all LEO organizations were half as vigilant in dismantling other protests then I’d be more inclined to comment favourably. The Chief is giving a briefing - he’s making it sound like they hit Juno Beach on D Day.
He wants the CAF to intervene. That’s on the record in days past
To the Chief’s credit he did say 20 arrests happened and 500 tickets were issued.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If all LEO organizations were half as vigilant in dismantling other protests then I’d be more inclined to comment favourably. The Chief is giving a briefing - he’s making it sound like they hit Juno Beach on D Day.
He wants the CAF to intervene. That’s on the record in days past.

Concur on all points.

 

[Altair]

If all LEO organizations were half as vigilant in dismantling other protests then I’d be more inclined to comment favourably. The Chief is giving a briefing - he’s making it sound like they hit Juno Beach on D Day.
He wants the CAF to intervene. That’s on the record in days past.

This isn't a truckers issue. They are doing what they set out to do.

This isn't a political issue(Federal or Provincial). No government is forced to talk to protestors.

This is a policing issue. Other police forces heard about convoys and said hell no, not in our city and prevented any occupation.

Ottawa could have done the same. This is a failure on the part of the city and police forces of Ottawa.

 

[OldSolduer]

Concur on all points.

Thanks. I think this protest was ill conceived from the start and should just go home. You’ve made your point now go home.

This could get ugly. I never thought I’d see this day.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"One admitted being part of the convoy protests."

Another way the author might have phrased it: "One claimed being part of the convoy protests."

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

This isn't a truckers issue. They are doing what they set out to do.

This isn't a political issue(Federal or Provincial). No government is forced to talk to protestors.

This is a policing issue. Other police forces heard about convoys and said hell no, not in our city and prevented any occupation.

Ottawa could have done the same. This is a failure on the part of the city and police forces of Ottawa.

I actually do think there is a "political" element to this as well from the Police. Budgets were apparently supposed to be cut, etc.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Thanks. I think this protest was ill conceived from the start and should just go home. You’ve made your point now go home.

This could get ugly. I never thought I’d see this day.

I am cool with this, so long as we treat all non violent protesters and protests the same way.

Edited to add non violent

 

[OldSolduer]

I am cool with this, so long as we treat all protesters and protests the same way.

There in lies the problem does it not?

The Winnipeg Police Service was ordered not to intervene when statues were being torn down in Winnipeg. So much for equal treatment before the law…..

 

[Altair]

I actually do think there is a "political" element to this as well from the Police. Budgets were apparently supposed to be cut, etc.

Again, police budgets are a municipal thing. So I maintain that every part of the current shit show falls on the city and police forces of Ottawa.

 

[Altair]

There in lies the problem does it not?

The Winnipeg Police Service was ordered not to intervene when statues were being torn down in Winnipeg. So much for equal treatment before the law…..

This only has credence if Winnipeg police treated the truckers harshly while going easy on those tearing down statues.

Otherwise its foolish to compare different police forces in different jurisdictions for their different responses.

 

[Remius]

I'm going to say I am not sure I believe you. First of all no one is being held hostage, you're using the same inflammatory language as the MSM.

Secondly your political slant on this has been pretty evident for a long time. You can deny it, and maybe you believe it. But I don't. No matter how well behaved the protest was you were always going to be against it. And that's fair, just be who you are.

I can tell you, on the surface, anyone who is against our COVID restrictions or mandates and doesn't like Trudeau is likely going to get my support. Once I dig into their motivations that may change. I am a card carrying member of the CPC, that's been no secret on here.

I don’t care if you believe me or not. Frankly anyone not living here and paying taxes should stfu in my view when it comes to what is going on in relation to how this is affecting the city even though I know that isn’t a fair thing to say as anyone is entitled to their opinion.

My posting history has shown flat out that I have supported mandates. I said to an “extent”. I don’t support mandatory vaccinations as in tying people down, denying them medical care and I am for the middle ground of a combination of vaccines and rapid testing.

I don’t support what this protest is asking for. Overturning the government and dropping all measures.

Go back and read what I’ve written. I support lawful protest. This isn’t that now. The people of center town would disagree with you about being held hostage. Again, people not living here should stfu about what they THINK they are going through.

So no. I don’t support the occupiers. Time to get the eff out.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

Looking in from the Outside, i have no skin in the game or really care.

But there many factors when it comes to the fuel thing.

Transport Canada rules, There is nothing illegal about the practice because individuals are allowed to transport up to six jerrycans under an exemption in Transport Canada's transportation of dangerous goods regulations. Up to 150 KG.
Personal vehicle / recreational vehicle Under Section 1.15 of the TDG Regulations, there is an exemption that will allow you to transport a "gross mass" of up to 150 kg of propane.
After that you need the Dangerous Good Placards and the endorsement that you have taken the course.

Then there is the storage rules, berms to prevent spills, fire extinguishers, spill containment, ( absorbent materials,) open flame near by. Then the NCC ( National Capital Commission) has their own rules for use of the lands under their control. Environmental concerns what if there is a spill and it reaches the Rideau Canal, the Ottawa river, or the sewer system. Who is going to want to be responsible if the Rideau Canal has a fuel spill into . World Heritage Site and be great to see it on the news being dug up and damaged . Very costly clean up, and no insurance to cover such a spill. Ask anyone who has their oil tank leak in the basement of back yard. House have torn down because it was cheaper to clean up that way. I know 5 gallons is not a lot of fuel, but when you see the amount of fuel being bought to the site, it is 1000s of gallons, or liters. Then throw in the burn barrels, fireworks, and the smoking, and the lack of safety controls.

Oka

I remember watching it on TV and thinking how bad it looked to see Canadian troops with weapons and ammo standing in front and between fellow Canadians. It is beyond my mind how no one got hurt or killed. Well trained troops can take some of the credit, some credit can be taken by the officers leading them, and the protestors can take some of the credit too. But the image is not something we as Canadians really want to see, if it went nice and smooth, no one hurt, no one killed, it would be great victory for the Army. But the negative press it would feed would show the world we are no different than the US and their race and law enforcement riots, show us no better than a 3rd world nation putting down a protest with tanks and machine guns. ( Yes I know the difference between a tank , a LAV, M113, and Tapv.) but the average person sees a weapon in the hands of a soldier and it is a machine gun they see, and everything the army drives is a tank.

I was at Ipperwash in the final summer they held a cadet camp there, I saw the police and the protestors inactions live and in person. No matter what happened the uniform side was in the wrong, because that is how the media reported it. Was told we could be taken hostage soon as the cadets left camp so we were all given leave to get off camp asap and to report back to our units or normal army jobs. We were not to stop any where locally, just get out of the area, and no talking to reporters.

Biggest problem is even the army does not have the heavy wrecker fleet to pull this many trucks off the street.
The image of armed troops on the Hill , will feed all the nations with human rights issues Canada speaks out against ammo to tell us to mind our business because we used the army to put down a protest just like they do.
Tough call for the army to figure this out if called upon.

 

[Remius]

I am cool with this, so long as we treat all non violent protesters and protests the same way.

Edited to add non violent

Apples and oranges. The police in Ottawa arrested all BLM protesters after 3 days of occupying an intersection in 2020. They were non violent.

How should we treat protests that become occupations then?

 

[Brad Sallows]

This round of expressed dissatisfaction is more unpleasant than pretty much all of the previous rounds. The next round will likely be more unpleasant than this one. Either make some concessions, or be prepared for consequences.

Authorities are not vexed with having to give up everything or nothing. They have the power to look at which measures have been drawn down elsewhere, and to draw them down where they are still in effect here. Certainly everyone with an internet connection and a web browser can see what is happening elsewhere and decide whether they are being reasonably or unreasonably restricted.

Restoring peace and order using a doctrine of applying the full letter and force of the law to squeeze the bastards doesn't work out as well as some people think it should.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Apples and oranges. The police in Ottawa arrested all BLM protesters after 3 days of occupying an intersection in 2020. They were non violent.

How should we treat protests that become occupations then?

Like I said, as long as its how we treat everyone and every cause who non violently protests I'm cool with it. As for the how, I am not a SME on crowd dispersion or control. What do you think ?