Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Altair]

Not helpful and definitely trolling.

What, are there not pictures of Andrew Scheer and Pierre Poilievre supporting this protest?

Or Candace Bergen being supportive in parliament?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I'm not even going to bother arguing with you as you clearly don't want to talk about the issues and just want to go full partisan political. That's you're prerogative but honestly it's pretty immature.

You do you though

 

[Remius]

This entire thing has been percolating under the surface for a while. As I said in earlier posts, some of us have been warning people for quite some time that this would be the consequence of continued restrictions and coercion against groups that didn't want to comply.

You didn't listen to us and now when crap hits the proverbial fan you want something done about it. Easy to say do something when you aren't the one that has to pull the trigger. This protest will probably be suppressed but the next one will be even bigger and it will reach a point where it can't be contained. You don't attempt to coerce 10% of the population in to doing something they don't want to do and not expect blow back.

POLITICAL DIALOGUE is the only way out of this mess long term.

The fUck Trudeau signs seem to indicate that dialogue is not on the table. I’m not sure why you say that I didn’t listen to you, I figured YOU had common sense and would would see that we actually have things like elections to make change. We had one. During a pandemic under restrictions. The other side won. One side unhappy and only proving how much worse they are than the other side is. We’ve seen it in the US and we are seeing it here.

10% percent can use the actual systems and freedoms to express their anger. It doesn’t give them free reign to do what they want when they don’t agree with the 90%.

I get the frustration but I am opposed to the tactics. Extortion is not the way out either. So when dialogue gets serious I’ll listen but so far it’s been misinformation led by bad actors.

 

[Altair]

I'm not even going to bother arguing with you as you clearly don't want to talk about the issues and just want to go full partisan political. That's you're prerogative but honestly it's pretty immature.

You do you though

Saying the CPC having members, in this case a previois leader, the current leader and leadership candidate supportijg the convoyis not partisan, its simply stating the facts.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The fUck Trudeau signs seem to indicate that dialogue is not on the table. I’m not sure why you say that I didn’t listen to you, I figured YOU had common sense and would would see that we actually have things like elections to make change. We had one. During a pandemic under restrictions. The other side won. One side unhappy and only proving how much worse they are than the other side is. We’ve seen it in the US and we are seeing it here.

** Trudeau or ** Harper, I fail to see the difference but maybe you can elaborate? I don't really give a crap about the politics or who is in charge. In fact, maybe try putting your politics aside for five minutes and doing an actual estimate of the situation?

I'm looking at this issue from a pure security standpoint. You have 10% of the population that doesn't want to comply with your laws, so how do you make them comply?

7 Questions:

1. What is the situation and how does it affect me?

2. What have I been told to do and why?

3. What effects do I need to achieve and what direction must I give to develop my plan?

4. Where can I best accomplish each action or effect?

5. What resources do I need to accomplish each action or effect?

6. When and where do the actions take place in relation to each other?

7. What control measures do I need to impose?

Have we actually answered these questions with our current COAs? Has the situation changed?

It's all well and good to huff and puff and say "but we have elections!" You can say that to me and I would agree with you..... because I'm a reasonable person. Most people are not reasonable though.

You need to start looking at this as a security issue, not a political issue. My estimate is the cure we are using might be at the point where it's worse than the disease.

10% percent can use the actual systems and freedoms to express their anger. It doesn’t give them free reign to do what they want when they don’t agree with the 90%.

I get the frustration but I am opposed to the tactics. Extortion is not the way out either. So when dialogue gets serious I’ll listen but so far it’s been misinformation led by bad actors.

I am also opposed to the tactics but then again, the underlying cause of this is the current emergency measures and various legislations so what exactly are the Government's options?

 

[Remius]

** Trudeau or ** Harper, I fail to see the difference but maybe you can elaborate? I don't really give a crap about the politics or who is in charge. In fact, maybe try putting your politics aside for five minutes and doing an actual estimate of the situation?

I'm looking at this issue from a pure security standpoint. You have 10% of the population that doesn't want to comply with your laws, so how do you make them comply?

7 Questions:

1. What is the situation and how does it affect me?

2. What have I been told to do and why?

3. What effects do I need to achieve and what direction must I give to develop my plan?

4. Where can I best accomplish each action or effect?

5. What resources do I need to accomplish each action or effect?

6. When and where do the actions take place in relation to each other?

7. What control measures do I need to impose?

Have we actually answered these questions with our current COAs? Has the situation changed?

It's all well and good to huff and puff and say "but we have elections!" You can say that to me and I would agree with you..... because I'm a reasonable person. Most people are not reasonable though.

You need to start looking at this as a security issue, not a political issue. My estimate is the cure we are using might be at the point where it's worse than the disease.


I am also opposed to the tactics but then again, the underlying cause of this is the current emergency measures and various legislations so what exactly are the Government's options?

My politics have been set aside. I don’t like Trudeau. I voted against him. I’ve advocated here for the unvaccinated not to be denied health care despite some calling for that. I’ve stated that a compromise on vaccinations was mandatory rapid testing. I’ve agreed that Trudeau’s rhetoric

By saying this is a security issue do you mean that the 10% are a threat to security? I certainly think the current protest is a security issue. Which is why it needs to end. Maybe the ottawa occupiers should take their cue from the Quebec City ones who successfully protested, made their point and went home. They’ll be back, yes, but seems more effective than what is happening here.

No way the government is going to give in now. (In fairness I doubt they were going to regardless) and the gg is not dissolving government either. As far as the city response is concerned I don’t think they care about the politics one way or another now. They just want these guys gone.

It’s been 10 days now and the only people that have been disrupted are the people that live and work in one of the poorest residential areas of the city.

 

[lenaitch]

Not many Ford model T's around these days




Regarding the police changing tactics and moving in, who's call is that really? Is the police chief the final authority here or is the chief taking direction from politicians when it comes to protests?

The only body that has oversight and policy authority over the police service is the Police Services Board (not even mayor and council) but they are specifically prohibited from giving operational direction by the Police Services Act.

 

[Eaglelord17]

What exactly goes above equality? A group protests pipelines. Don’t want it on their land and that is racist?

Or are you talking about special programs like say university grants and scholarships?

I don’t buy into the whole treaty system, its fundamentally racist at its core. As is the indian act and all the provisions that go along with it. One country, one level of citizenship. We should all be equals, not some pigs are more equal than others.

As to it being a pipeline protest, what it was actually about was a (ultimately successful) power grab by unelected hereditary chiefs over a democratically elected group of chiefs who had approved the pipeline going through their lands like every other band along the route. Lots of other drama in there like the hereditary chiefs kicking out certain ones who were approving of the pipeline.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

LOL, feel the burn much JT?

India's Ambassador To Canada Just Tore Justin Trudeau A New A-Hole

The whole world is turning against Canada's Commie Soyboy, and man, is it not a beautiful thing to see?

www.bitchute.com

 

[daftandbarmy]

LOL, feel the burn much JT?

India's Ambassador To Canada Just Tore Justin Trudeau A New A-Hole

The whole world is turning against Canada's Commie Soyboy, and man, is it not a beautiful thing to see?

www.bitchute.com

Karma... it's a beeyotch

India summons Canada envoy after Trudeau backs protests​

Tens of thousands of Indian farmers have been trying for more than a week to encircle the capital New Delhi in protest at new laws on farm produce trading.

There have been clashes with police and Trudeau released a Twitter video this week calling the events "concerning" and saying farmers should be allowed to stage peaceful protests.

India summons Canada envoy after Trudeau backs protests

India on Friday summoned Canada's ambassador and warned of serious damage to diplomatic ties after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau commented on growing protests by farmers, authorities said.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

My politics have been set aside. I don’t like Trudeau. I voted against him. I’ve advocated here for the unvaccinated not to be denied health care despite some calling for that. I’ve stated that a compromise on vaccinations was mandatory rapid testing. I’ve agreed that Trudeau’s rhetoric

By saying this is a security issue do you mean that the 10% are a threat to security? I certainly think the current protest is a security issue. Which is why it needs to end. Maybe the ottawa occupiers should take their cue from the Quebec City ones who successfully protested, made their point and went home. They’ll be back, yes, but seems more effective than what is happening here.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. What I am actually thinking is how far is the Government willing to take this?

The Government(s) can pass as many laws as they want and using Emergency Powers they have wide latitude but there are consequences to those decisions.

People shouldn't be surprised or shocked when the 10% of the population that didn't agree with the consensus and have had punitive action taken against them decide to cause a disturbance.

No way the government is going to give in now. (In fairness I doubt they were going to regardless) and the gg is not dissolving government either. As far as the city response is concerned I don’t think they care about the politics one way or another now. They just want these guys gone.

It’s been 10 days now and the only people that have been disrupted are the people that live and work in one of the poorest residential areas of the city.

I don't think the vast majority of people protesting in Ottawa wants the Government to be dissolved. Yes there are a few crazies who will say that but there always will be.

What they actually want is for emergency powers to begin to be walked back and for the respective Government(s) to announce how they plan to do that.

In other words: They want them to Govern and state their Intent

The evidence and numbers are out there for all to see, we are passed peak deaths for this wave, peak hospitalizations and cases are rapidly trending downward. The World didn't end, the hospitals didn't collapse, which was the stated purpose of the restrictions in the first place.

So why are we still in this State of Emergency? What's the plan to get us out of it? How is it I can turn on DAZN and watch a Six Nations Rugby Match over in merry old Scotland where everyone is carrying on normally, yet I am sitting here in Canada having to sit in a pub and put a mask on to walk to the bathroom and lie to myself that it does anything? Or better yet, show a vaccine passport to a hostess, when we know it doesn't mean anything WRT virus transmission?

We are at the point now where the 10% who are still scared should be told to stay home and take extra precautions if they feel the need, everyone else should be free to carry on living their lives.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

A great article on why Denmark lifted all their COVID Restrictions:

How Denmark Decided COVID Isn’t a Critical Threat to Society

Derek Thompson: Denmark just lifted all COVID restrictions. What justifies this decision?

Michael Bang Petersen: Our hospitals are not being overwhelmed. We have excellent data surveillance of our hospital system in Denmark, and when we look at the number of people in ICUs, it’s dropping. We have a lot of people in hospitals with positive tests, but most of them are testing positive with COVID rather than being there because of COVID. They’re also in the hospital for a much shorter duration than previous waves. The number of people being treated for pneumonia is a critical indicator, and that’s going down as well. The decoupling of cases and hospitalizations comes from two things. First, Denmark has very high vaccine uptake, with 81 percent of the adult population having two doses and 61 percent having received a booster shot. Second, Omicron is a milder variant. That combination of high vaccine coverage plus a milder variant means this wave isn’t stressing our hospital systems as much.


Thompson: Why lift restrictions now? Why not wait until the Omicron wave is over in a few weeks or a month?

Petersen: In order for the Danish government to keep restrictions in place, the disease has to be classified as a threat to the critical functions of society. That is a temporary classification. It only lasts for a few months at a time. The government must purposefully decide to extend the classification every time. The latest extension was set to end in February. The government had a deadline. We had to decide: Can we really make the case that COVID is a threat, at this moment, to the critical functioning of society? This is a black-or-white decision for us—either COVID is critical or it’s not—and we couldn’t make the case that this poses a societal threat. That’s why we decided to lift all restrictions, including the mask mandate, effective February 1.

It’s important to be clear that waiting to remove restrictions is not a cost-free decision. A pandemic is not just a public-health disaster. It affects all parts of society. It has consequences for economic activity, for people’s well-being, and for their sense of freedom. Pandemic restrictions put on pause fundamental democratic rights. If there’s a critical threat, that pause might be legitimate. But there is an obligation to remove those restrictions quickly when the threat is no longer critical. So, from a purely epidemic perspective, it might have made sense to extend Denmark’s restrictions another two weeks to ensure that we are on the other side of the Omicron peak. But that decision would have come with cost too. Waiting is not free.

 

[Remius]

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. What I am actually thinking is how far is the Government willing to take this?

The Government(s) can pass as many laws as they want and using Emergency Powers they have wide latitude but there are consequences to those decisions.

People shouldn't be surprised or shocked when the 10% of the population that didn't agree with the consensus and have had punitive action taken against them decide to cause a disturbance.


I don't think the vast majority of people protesting in Ottawa wants the Government to be dissolved. Yes there are a few crazies who will say that but there always will be.

What they actually want is for emergency powers to begin to be walked back and for the respective Government(s) to announce how they plan to do that.

In other words: They want them to Govern and state their Intent

The evidence and numbers are out there for all to see, we are passed peak deaths for this wave, peak hospitalizations and cases are rapidly trending downward. The World didn't end, the hospitals didn't collapse, which was the stated purpose of the restrictions in the first place.

So why are we still in this State of Emergency? What's the plan to get us out of it? How is it I can turn on DAZN and watch a Six Nations Rugby Match over in merry old Scotland where everyone is carrying on normally, yet I am sitting here in Canada having to sit in a pub and put a mask on to walk to the bathroom and lie to myself that it does anything? Or better yet, show a vaccine passport to a hostess, when we know it doesn't mean anything WRT virus transmission?

We are at the point now where the 10% who are still scared should be told to stay home and take extra precautions if they feel the need, everyone else should be free to carry on living their lives.

Ah. Except this same 10 percent that from the beginning claimed this was a hoax.

Except there is a roadmap out of this. Just that 10 percent didn’t agree with it. Based on their own bad science.

Restrictions are being lifted. In a phased approach. Just that 10 percent missed that part.

Hospitals weren’t overrun because of measures put in place.

Who cares what happens in Denmark or Scotland? Different countries. In Canada we have the 2nd lowest COVID death rate in world.

In the end lives saved matter.

At the end of the day we live in a democracy. That 10 percent needs to remember that. Otherwise they are exactly what people describe them as.

But I digress. Speaking from a local level. They have overstayed their welcome.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Opinion:

I'm with those who are saying that Ottawa mayor Jim Watson and Ottawa Police Chief Peter Sloly have provided a masterclass in how to not handle a protest/demonstration.

But, I think it needs to be remembered that the hymnal from which the mayor and police chief are, still, singing was written by Prime Minister Trudeau and his team ~ this is a tiny fringe thingy, it doesn't matter. Oops!

Everyone, including the protest 'organizers,' if that's the right word, misunderstood and underestimated what a blue-collar protest would be like. On the "forces of order" side there was ~ in City Hall, in Queens Park and on Parliament Hill ~ a total, 100%, complete absence of leadership and management.

 

[McG]

The World didn't end, the hospitals didn't collapse, which was the stated purpose of the restrictions in the first place.

So the restrictions achieved their purpose. That’s good. I don’t understand why you keep circling back to the lack of catastrophic failure as proof of excess measures. I mean, reporting in several provinces put thier medical systems at or approaching max capacity due to anti-mask/anti-vax types. And there were also triage decisions across multiple provinces that will let cancer patients die to save anti-mask & anti-vax people.

Do we need really catastrophic failure to look back and say that maybe the restrictions were not to much? Should we also be looking at this from the perspective of risk to myself and my inner circle?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Ah. Except this same 10 percent that from the beginning claimed this was a hoax.

Some claimed it was a hoax, some just don't like being told what to do, some have other reasons for not willing cooperating. That doesn't change the fact they aren't in compliance at this time.

Except there is a roadmap out of this. Just that 10 percent didn’t agree with it. Based on their own bad science.

I would very much like to see this roadmap. When exactly are we lifting vaccine passports? It certainly hasn't been announced where I live, in fact they just doubled down and extended them to the 30th of June.

This is exactly the point I am making: the goal posts have been shifting constantly, the messaging has been completely inconsistent.

Restrictions are being lifted. In a phased approach. Just that 10 percent missed that part.

Are they? Again what's the plan? It would be interesting to see this because the Federal Government just imposed more restrictions (which was the entire reason this entire thing in Ottawa kicked off)

Hospitals weren’t overrun because of measures put in place.

Very debatable. There is a lot of evidence pointing to the fact the measures we have taken had negligible impact, I linked one such recent study earlier.

Who cares what happens in Denmark or Scotland? Different countries. In Canada we have the 2nd lowest COVID death rate in world.

Where did you haul that number from? Also, there is a lot of evidence that we have significantly underreported our COVID Deaths and that our death rate is actually much much higher than what has been reported.

Canada's real death toll from COVID-19 may far exceed official tally: report

The number of Canadians who have died because of the COVID-19 pandemic is likely double that shown in the official numbers, according to a disturbing new report published by the Royal Society of Canada.

www.ctvnews.ca

Alberta leads country in excess death rates during pandemic: U of T researcher

Dr. Tara Moriarty said significant underreporting of COVID-19 deaths is commonplace across Canada and in other high-income countries.

calgaryherald.com

Ever think that maybe the books got cooked?Canadian Exceptionalism especially when comparing ourselves to our Southern Brethren is a powerful tool.

At the end of the day we live in a democracy. That 10 percent needs to remember that. Otherwise they are exactly what people describe them as.

But I digress. Speaking from a local level. They have overstayed their welcome.

Yes and what does Democracy rely on? A Social Contract. This is Hobbes, Locke and Rousseau 101 boss. The people who are upset believe their social contract has been violated. How do we win enough of them back over to eliminate this problem we have now created through legislation?

You can huff and puff about it all you want and about those people. That isn't going to make things any better, it's probably actually going to make it worse .

10% of 38 million is 3.8 million. That's a lot of people you are going to need to coerce. In a Country with only a 100,000 sworn police officers, one of the lowest per capita in the World.

Do you see what I am getting at here?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

So the restrictions achieved their purpose. That’s good. I don’t understand why you keep circling back to the lack of catastrophic failure as proof of excess measures. I mean, reporting in several provinces put thier medical systems at or approaching max capacity due to anti-mask/anti-vax types. And there were also triage decisions across multiple provinces that will let cancer patients die to save anti-mask & anti-vax people.

Do we need really catastrophic failure to look back and say that maybe the restrictions were not to much? Should we also be looking at this from the perspective of risk to myself and my inner circle?

Again, show me an actual QUALITATIVE Analysis that these measures are an actual effective Public Health tool at this point in time?

Public Health ≠ ONLY COVID-19

If you want to look at COVID-19 in isolation or as the single factor to consider, sure Lockdowns could be considered effective.

There are way more factors to consider, too many to rationalize in a post here.

My Opinion:

The long term damage being caused by continued use of restrictions will far outweigh the impact of immediate lives saved.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Opinion:

I'm with those who are saying that Ottawa mayor Jim Watson and Ottawa Police Chief Peter Sloly have provided a masterclass in how to not handle a protest/demonstration.

But, I think it needs to be remembered that the hymnal from which the mayor and police chief are, still, singing was written by Prime Minister Trudeau and his team ~ this is a tiny fringe thingy, it doesn't matter. Oops!

Everyone, including the protest 'organizers,' if that's the right word, misunderstood and underestimated what a blue-collar protest would be like. On the "forces of order" side there was ~ in City Hall, in Queens Park and on Parliament Hill ~ a total, 100%, complete absence of leadership and management.

I 100% agree. This isn't some fringe thing either, while not majority, recent polling shows 32% of Canadians "have a lot in common" with the protesters.

Freedom Convoy: GoFundMe seizes funds of Canada 'occupation'

The crowdfunding website cites reports of "unlawful activity", a claim rejected by protest organisers.

www.bbc.com

The working class in this Country are sick of this. I grew up in a mining town and most of my old mates work fly-in/fly-out jobs and have been living a proverbial hell for 2+ years dealing with restrictions while others sit at home and get fat off the Govt Teat.

They went along with restrictions, got their vaccines and did what they were told. Now they are fed up with it. They as a collective are 100% behind the protesters.

Everyone can continue to bury their heads in the sand if they want but the problem isn't going to go away.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

You want timeliness? ? Guess you could study hard, buy a lab, and figure out a meaningful dialogue with a virus strain......

It's time to end stuff....but with caution....

Edit : and that goes for those who think parking a truck in the middle of a road helps.

 

[Remius]

Do you see what I am getting at here?

Yes. that 10 percent can have a tantrum and we should just give them what they want. Got it.

Remember that next time certain groups block pipelines, railways or take over a golf course. I didn’t support any of those things and I don’t approve of this. But some are comfortable being hypocrites (with a few even calling for lethal force at the time) depending on whose team they support.