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Asked in the ‘help me understand’ mode, does that mean OPP had seniority over the incident? How did OPS, RCMP and PPS fit in?
Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]
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ArmyRick
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I aint out to hurt your feelings, I think you missed the whole point my post.
Trudeau sympathizes and even takes a knee with one protest and then labels another as the most horrible people on earth? Get it yet?
ArmyRick
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Do you honestly think Trudeau does not or can not influence Ottawa Police Service? I highly doubt it. Police services in most places seem to be very influenced by politics these days.
How the hell do the anti-Israel protest scream for the death of jews and how many arrested and charged for hate crimes?
Good question.
Constitution makes administration of justice provincial. The provincial legislation for that is the Police Services Act. OPS is constituted under that act and has primacy for their jurisdiction in Ottawa. OPP is a provincial police service, but doesn’t have inherent seniority. The provincial solicitor general would have some murky power to step in and direct OPP to act in the event of a failure by a municipal police service.
OPS commanded it solo for a while, and requested backup resources. OPP and RCMP coughed up bodies to assist on request. RCMP had a separate but geographically overlapping responsibility for protective policing of some sites under their protective mandate- Rideau Hall grounds being the primary example.
Late in the event a unified command was established under the ICE model. OPS, OPP, and RCMP formed a joint incident command. I haven’t worked or trained at that level to know what that looks like in the incident command post, but it’s a shared operational decision making responsibility. I believe OPS still approved the overall final OPS plan, which is appropriate. Once Sloly was gone things improved immediately.
PPS are not police, peace officers, or law enforcement. They’re armed security uniquely empowered under Parliament’s statutory authority. Their role is strictly physical protection of the Parliamentary precinct, and some intelligence functions in support thereof. They don’t investigate and charge. During the event I believe RCMP had a public order unit physically residing on Parliament Hill under their protective mandate.
When the final clearance op started, it was OPS led, but under a unified incident commands, and assisted by police brought in on assistance requests from all over Canada.
Not cool in the slightest.
@brihard has valuable input on this subject, and many more. You may not agree with it but he doesn't deserve that.
Kind of you to say, thanks for that.
Sorry Rick- I should have been more clear. I know you and I respect each other and you aren’t trying to insult or offend me. We’re on opposing sides of a contentious subject; I meant it as an assurance that you can fire away and I’ll do my best to answer.
I’ve worked other protests. There’s a massive distinction between tromping around for a few hours and leaving, and digging in and obstructing residents’ lawful use of the downtown core for weeks. BLM up here was entirely non-violent save for I think one dumbass who chucked a glass bottle at one point. It’s not meaningfully comparable.
Yes I do.
Not enough, though in Toronto and Montreal we’ve seen some charges laid after followup investigations. I believe that there needs to be more enforcement of threats and hate speech there. I also believe you’re engaging in whataboutism by bringing it up. Also, like the BLM protests above, circumstantial they’re very different in impact and duration.
Actually yes. Way out of his lane. Do you really believe Trudeau is having O groups with OPS?
So far more than zero.
ArmyRick
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The whataboutism does have a little relevance here in this case. People across the country are losing faith in their public institutions for many reasons. The police forces across the nation (unfortunately get lumped together) and their various reactions to different protest is not helping public faith.
I will agree the Trucker convoy for you guys to deal with was going to be a PR dumpster fire from the begining no matter how it was handled.
ArmyRick
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There is direct or indirect influence
QV
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Trudeau and his minister's reaction to the convoy (which had widespread support) was seething vapid hatred... they walked a softer line with the Hamas supporters etc.
That is one more reason why Trudeau is almost universally hated.
The Deputy PM was laughing while announcing the bank account freezing.
Any normal politician would have resigned from a fraction of this.
That is one more reason why Trudeau is almost universally hated.
The Deputy PM was laughing while announcing the bank account freezing.
Any normal politician would have resigned from a fraction of this.
I’ve said this before. I hope everyone gets what they deserve.Update on the class-action lawsuit,
Published Jan 25, 2024
Federal Court's Emergencies Act ruling will 'affirm' claims in proposed class-action lawsuit, lawyer says
A civil lawsuit remains pending against participants of the 2022 convoy protest.ottawacitizen.com
From the front-line,
ArmyRick
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I will admit that the OPS is in a tough situation. They have to police the city that houses the federal government and parliament. I would assume its at least implied they are partially responsible for its security if it means keeping Ottawa itself "safe".
If something really bad were to happen to say parliament hill (Like a deranged shooter which as happened) I assume the brass at OPS would be rather nervous and twitchy about it. Its that kind of influence I refer to.
If something really bad were to happen to say parliament hill (Like a deranged shooter which as happened) I assume the brass at OPS would be rather nervous and twitchy about it. Its that kind of influence I refer to.
Halifax Tar
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Don't mention it. Decorum and respect amongst us is important.
I view this forum like a C&POs mess, we can disagree but nothing is personal.
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OPS has a unique set of challenges. The area the need to cover is bigger than Montreal, Toronto and Calgary combined. It’s a mix of urban and rural with a bunch of marine aspects added on. Then factor in the various jurisdictions at the Federal, Provincial, Municipal and to add a province/city next door that is partially integrated structurally it adds to that challenge.
The main problem at that time was the leadership. Not any influence the Feds gave them. Just leadership paralysis.
The current chief is a different beast from that last one but I don’t know if things are much better. At least morale wise within the rank and file. OPS has some systemic issues…
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This.
foresterab
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Thanks for the additional insight into solo command vs. unified command. While I'm not law enforcement there also seems to be a common issue with complex incidents not initiating unified command early - at least in the natural disaster/response world - for a wide range of reasons from egos involved to lack of training/understanding what it means to go to unified command to interagency barriers.
There have also been successes...the best of which I know of is apparently the Oklahoma City Bombing event in the US where within 10 minutes of the initial report unified command had been established, lead agency identified, and communications set up....the head of City Police, local FBI lead, and the local ATF lead were all golf buddies and established it immediately. Unfortunately one of the better known recent events also showed where it failed - see https://www.rmwb.ca/en/community-se...ources/Documents/Wildfire_Lessons_Learned.pdf on page 10 on the first bullet on response showing how the lack of unified command impacted the response to the 2016 Fort Mac Murry wildfire.
For those not working in ICS one thing I've learned is that rank/position in your day jobs don't really matter...its' the role you're filling in the ICS system. But this also means that some great operators at the squad/district/company level can't mentally stretch to adjust to the bigger strategic position and vice versa...some great strategic leaders shouldn't be trusted with leading tactical ops. For those agencies that also use formal rank (CAF, Police Services, Fire Departments) the organizational structure can work against you as the Incident Commander - Sgt. or Captain - might need to tell a director/general to get out and shut up...which you can't always do.
Appreciate the insight...just shows how conflicting and complex the challenge was in the absence of clear direction from higher.
foresterab
That’s completely fair to say. Convoy, as an anomalous and extreme case in Canadian history, nonetheless does fit into a very real and now discussion about what Canada expects in terms of both tolerance and of enforcement when confronted with protests, dissident movements, etc etc. Everyone’s got an opinion, our profession is subject to an unusually high degree of people thinking they know how to do it, and when it comes to protests, expectations vary wildly depending on the cause and politics of an individual group. Whereas when we respond operationally, we’re supposed to be agnostic to the cause and focus on the intersection of behaviour and law.
Ironically, Convoy happened after a couple years of major unrest in the U.S. around how police deal with protests, which did have spillover here. Convoy were handled with kid gloves throughout, and even at the final clearance it was forceful but with barely any marked violence. We expected and were prepared for far worse.
I’ve had people screaming at me that would should have taken batons and boots to them from the first weekend. I obviously still have people telling me our enforcement actions were completely wrong and unjustified. We see the same divergent opinions for any major protest. It is what it is. Public order policing doesn’t really lead to making anyone happy.
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No, it became about mandates (and other stuff) afterwards. The original protest was about truckers not being able to enter the US to deliver their goods, because of….wait for it…border rules. Vaccine mandates, etc got the non-truckers (which were by far the largest group) out.
And yes, the GoC could have pushed back against the restrictions. Imagine how well that would have played out in US-Canadian relations. Again, it’s our trucks trying to get into their country.
Their country, their rules, right?
Jarnhamar
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Trudeau had Butts deal with Wilson-Raybould which kept his hands clean (cleaner). It also looks like he, or his office, influenced Brenda Lucki too. It doesn't seem unreasonable that Trudeau or the PMO might influence the OPS.
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I am often impressed by just how much Trudeau's greatest detractors think he is capable of doing.
QV
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We all watch how boot licks jump when a much lower 'rank' insinuates something... when the PMO or Trudeau himself do that, I'm sure many jump to it without question.
"The PM isn't happy"
"Oh dang, I better do something different.... "
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He’s either an idiot or the worlds biggest evil genius…
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