Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[brihard]

There really was two distinct "protests."

There was a broader movement, the Canadians donating, that showed up on the weekend and left, waving flags at overpasses, etc. This group was bigger, not homogenous, and largely not "in the know." 2nd, 3rd, 4th, hand information, supporting the idea the expressing frustration at the government.

Then there was the core protest. (Bauder, Barber, King, Laface etc) and the group in the hundreds that had either been organizing or being organized for weeks. Those involved at some level with the very public planning of "Operation Bearhug", the ones that thought that they were actually going to get the MOU (or something like it) enacted by "choking out" the whole of Ottawa. This group made up a much higher percentage of the long-haul occupiers than it did of the weekend protest and national support, but it very much did exist, and was at the core of the whole thing. They only walked back that asinine document because they realized that the hype about the scale was BS and that they were going to fail.

Acknowledging that rotten core doesn't delegitimize the anger felt and peacefully expressed by the others, but refusing to do so is just burying ones head in the sand about what was attempted.

This is an excellent summation, and I can’t see any part of it that doesn’t jive very well with what we were seeing, hearing, and reading.

Much more of this will come out once the ideological leaders of the core group eventually get to trial (trials are being scheduled about a year from now), or perhaps earlier if the media goes after release of certain court authorizations that, for now, remain sealed. But anyway, you provided a great summary, and really the open source info in the public domain tells a great deal of the story anyway.

 

[IKnowNothing]

This is an excellent summation, and I can’t see any part of it that doesn’t jive very well with what we were seeing, hearing, and reading.

Much more of this will come out once the ideological leaders of the core group eventually get to trial (trials are being scheduled about a year from now), or perhaps earlier if the media goes after release of certain court authorizations that, for now, remain sealed. But anyway, you provided a great summary, and really the open source info in the public domain tells a great deal of the story anyway.

Thanks.

And that summary is why I'm so frustrated at politicians on both sides of the aisle for their handling of this. If they couldn't/couldn't be bothered to get to a similar level of understanding and issue clearly articulated statements capturing that reality... they shouldn't be in office. That goes for Libs that lumped the masses in with the criminals to delegitimize, and the Cons that wink at/ bury their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the prime role the criminals played.

 

[Edward Campbell]

There really was two distinct "protests."

There was a broader movement, the Canadians donating, that showed up on the weekend and left, waving flags at overpasses, etc. This group was bigger, not homogenous, and largely not "in the know." 2nd, 3rd, 4th, hand information, supporting the idea the expressing frustration at the government.

Then there was the core protest. (Bauder, Barber, King, Laface etc) and the group in the hundreds that had either been organizing or being organized for weeks. Those involved at some level with the very public planning of "Operation Bearhug", the ones that thought that they were actually going to get the MOU (or something like it) enacted by "choking out" the whole of Ottawa. This group made up a much higher percentage of the long-haul occupiers than it did of the weekend protest and national support, but it very much did exist, and was at the core of the whole thing. They only walked back that asinine document because they realized that the hype about the scale was BS and that they were going to fail.

Acknowledging that rotten core doesn't delegitimize the anger felt and peacefully expressed by the others, but refusing to do so is just burying ones head in the sand about what was attempted.

That's what I saw and heard on my almost daily walks through Ottawa's downtown core (I live there - just a couple of blocks from one of the major "parking lots" on Kent Street). I saw, on TV, the incoherent, grade-school babbling of some of the "spokespeople," and laughed, albeit in considerable dismay, at the state of public education in Canada. But when I went for my daily walk I met people - many polite, working class people from well outside of Ottawa - who were here, at some personal cost, for a day or two just to express their support for those who were shouting angry, crude, rude slogans at Justin Trudeau and, more broadly, at the people - officials and voters - who enable him.

I was impressed with the real, heartfelt anger; I was depressed by the notion that the "occupation" was, in any way, a proper method of expressing that anger.

I remain fully committed to the notion that everyone has a right - including a right to inconvenience me and my family - to march to Parliament Hill, to mill about, to cook hotdogs (and even drink a wobbly-pop or two (hidden in a brown paper bag, of course)) all while shouting obscenities at the various groups - government and opposition - who we elected to speak for us. I am also committed to the notion that the authorities (local, provincial and national) have a duty to, at some reasonable* point, say "right, that's it for you lot: move along or I'll give you a swift kick in the arse."

I have no idea what those authorities knew and didn't know, nor do I have any idea about how they analyzed whatever information they had. I know that the City of Ottawa failed the people who live and work in downtown Ottawa.

---
*Define "reasonable." Aye, there's the rub.

 

[IKnowNothing]

@Edward Campbell
Excellent post, captured my thoughts and feelings exactly.

As to defining reasonable-
Coutts should have been broken as fast as Windsor, Kenney was a spineless hypocrite
Ottawa should have been allowed the weekend (and any subsequent weekends as long as people wanted to return), Monday and Tuesday a stiff ramp up of ticketing (trespassing, City parking, CVOR violations, orders to disperse) and broken up Wednesday

Controversially - in a perfect world Bauder and the like would have arrested for seditious conspiracy the moment they put that MOU forward while leading a blockade, but that would have been an absolute shit show.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Some members of the PS were overtly relieved when the CPC was removed from government. In fairness, some of the finance-oriented people were overtly relieved when Harper and Flaherty took over the reins for a while. Not the same degree or kind of relief, though.

The convoy and associated (and still ongoing, but small) protests were not coherent. Lumping all of them in with the Guy Fawkes faction is unhelpful. It used to be pretty much the entire right side of sociopolitics could be depended on to be pro-order, pro-police, pro-Forces, etc. That has changed; there's been some erosion. It's not all on them. The spillover of cranky right-wing politics [from the US] into the little people of Canada is unwelcome, but so is the spillover of smug politicians' responses to people the politicians apparently don't like. I reasonably have tougher expectations of people who stand higher on the ladder of comfort and influence.

Some members of the PS will be overtly relieved when Trudeau is gone as well, and similarly lumping the PS together into a single faction is also unhelpful, as is pretending the Guy Fawkes faction didn't play a fairly significant role in the core group that was organizing, creating and prolonging the protest.

None of these groups are homogenous masses, but ignoring the nut jobs in the crowd and how crowd dynamics work is naive as well. Usually only takes a few nut cases to start a riot, and it was a potential powder keg for about a month, with lots of arseholes running around with lighters trying to start something.

 

[QV]

Some members of the PS will be overtly relieved when Trudeau is gone as well, and similarly lumping the PS together into a single faction is also unhelpful, as is pretending the Guy Fawkes faction didn't play a fairly significant role in the core group that was organizing, creating and prolonging the protest.

None of these groups are homogenous masses, but ignoring the nut jobs in the crowd and how crowd dynamics work is naive as well. Usually only takes a few nut cases to start a riot, and it was a potential powder keg for about a month, with lots of arseholes running around with lighters trying to start something.

I really wish the PS unions would STFU about what party to vote for.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Some of the people running around with lighters sit in Parliament, and ought not goad others.

 

[Furniture]

But that is standard classification for a mixture of nuts . . .

View attachment 73495


There may be expected, specific and identified items in the mixture, but . . .


View attachment 73496

. . . there is usually a number of other things, not always welcome, healthy or helpful. And if it's in the package, regardless of what it is, it's going to be identified as mixed nuts.

If the same standard was applied to all protests you'd have a valid point, but it isn't...

 

[mariomike]

I really wish the PS unions would STFU about what party to vote for.

I was in a municipal PS union. We supported politicians who supported us.

Perhaps the federal and provincial unions have similar political endorsement philosophies.

Our union made its political endorsement decisions based on the core issues of concern to our members' health and safety, economic well-being, retirement security, right to collectively bargain and other aspects pertaining to the job.

We stood with the candidates who had a record of standing with us and whose policy decisions stand to benefit us when it comes to those issues.

Whether or not members use the unions basket of issues to guide their voting is up to them. The union never tells members how to vote, but because the union's job is to protect our interests and because politicians make virtually all the decisions that affect our job, we support the candidate who stands with us on our issues.

It’s the union's role and responsibility to make recommendations based on where the candidates stand on our issues, labor issues and issues important to the financial well-being of our members and their families.

To be clear, the union NEVER controlled who we voted for. Members were always free to vote for the candidates and party and issues that were important to them.

 

[mariomike]

I was impressed with the real, heartfelt anger; I was depressed by the notion that the "occupation" was, in any way, a proper method of expressing that anger.

Some people, presumably from out of town, seemed to enjoy being part of the "occupation". From what I saw on TV, they actually looked happy and proud of themselves. Perhaps not everyone, but that was my general perception.

But, I read somewhere, "Keep cool. Anger is not an arguement."

 

[Kat Stevens]

Some people, presumably from out of town, seemed to enjoy being part of the "occupation". From what I saw on TV, they actually looked happy and proud of themselves. Perhaps not everyone, but that was my general perception.

But, I read somewhere, "Keep cool. Anger is not an arguement."

When you're fed a regular diet of cock from that town, maybe it feels good to be able to bite down, just a little, for once.

 

[Spencer100]

Some members of the PS will be overtly relieved when Trudeau is gone as well, and similarly lumping the PS together into a single faction is also unhelpful, as is pretending the Guy Fawkes faction didn't play a fairly significant role in the core group that was organizing, creating and prolonging the protest.

None of these groups are homogenous masses, but ignoring the nut jobs in the crowd and how crowd dynamics work is naive as well. Usually only takes a few nut cases to start a riot, and it was a potential powder keg for about a month, with lots of arseholes running around with lighters trying to start something.

There is a large group think in the PS. And at higher levels the range of thinking narrows very much. When talking to the higher level government management types I can almost guess what comes out of their mouths in meetings.

Line government worker is more divest bunch. But still skewing "left" of the general population.

 

[dapaterson]

COVID has driven a number of federal departments to hire best candidates, regardless of where they live, instead of hiring people because they are in Ottawa. A WFH / virtual federal public service give the opportunity of bringing a more diverse public service into play - diverse in terms of locations and experiences. It's exciting to see, and better for the government.

(Obviously, customer facing staff need to be where they work, but de-Ottawa-ing policy staff should improve the PS.)

 

[Remius]

COVID has driven a number of federal departments to hire best candidates, regardless of where they live, instead of hiring people because they are in Ottawa. A WFH / virtual federal public service give the opportunity of bringing a more diverse public service into play - diverse in terms of locations and experiences. It's exciting to see, and better for the government.

(Obviously, customer facing staff need to be where they work, but de-Ottawa-ing policy staff should improve the PS.)

Yes. But some think the wfh crew does nothing and still get paid. Can’t change people’s perceptions, biases and general “have no idea what they are talking about” talking points.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Yes. But some think the wfh crew does nothing and still get paid. Can’t change people’s perceptions, biases and general “have no idea what they are talking about” talking points.

I mean the people who were supposed to support us when we were deployed were WFH.

The support was garbage, mostly because there is no accountability in the Government or PS.

Changing perceptions works both ways

 

[QV]

COVID has driven a number of federal departments to hire best candidates, regardless of where they live, instead of hiring people because they are in Ottawa. A WFH / virtual federal public service give the opportunity of bringing a more diverse public service into play - diverse in terms of locations and experiences. It's exciting to see, and better for the government.

(Obviously, customer facing staff need to be where they work, but de-Ottawa-ing policy staff should improve the PS.)

Not if middle managers and up must still be bilingual.

 

[Remius]

Not if middle managers and up must still be bilingual.

That’s a whole other issue and you’ll get no argument from me when it comes to that.

My previous team had 2 people working remotely outside of the NCR and both outside of Ontario.

My current team/group has 4 that I know of that are outside the NCR with at least 1 of those out of province.

My spouse has made arrangements for a team member to work from out west due to her husband being CAF and posted out west.

There is a golden opportunity if hiring managers take it and if they can arrange telework. I can tell you that the PS is struggling to recruit and hire right now so expanding the base outside their normal area of selection is great solution to that problem.

 

[mariomike]

I was depressed by the notion that the "occupation" was, in any way, a proper method of expressing that anger.

I wasn't there. I'm symathetic to those who were forced to live and work through it.

 

[Furniture]

I mean the people who were supposed to support us when we were deployed were WFH.

The support was garbage, mostly because there is no accountability in the Government or PS.

Changing perceptions works both ways

When I started deploying with the navy in 2012 our support was garbage, it didn't improve by 2017 when I did my last deployment... WFH is not the problem, garbage support, and a lack of accountability when things go wrong is.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

When I started deploying with the navy in 2012 our support was garbage, it didn't improve by 2017 when I did my last deployment... WFH is not the problem, garbage support, and a lack of accountability when things go wrong is.

Agreed but with it already being bad enough, we shouldn't try and actually make it worse