First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

[Brad Sallows]

Wasn't the deal a "best effort" promise?

Sure, tax the churches. But remember that they get to deduct expenses from revenue to determine taxable income. Then watch their accountants do what every businessman knows how to do - minimize taxable income. Then reap very little money, and a great deal of animosity. There's a deal I'm sure politicians are eager to make.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

And much of that money raised by local parishes who might be made up of immigrants like Filipinos who weren't exactly involved...

 

[Kilted]

I think that it's important to remember that a very large percentage of Canadian Christians are not Catholic and have no connection to the Catholic Church, in many cases many denominations left the Catholic Church because they felt that many things the Vatican was doing was wrong. Perhaps we will see a few converts from this. If you start taxing every church based on the actions of the Catholic Church, that's for one thing discrimination. Many smaller churches would be forced to close if they were taxed, because many are barely holding on. They don't have the riches of the Vatican.

 

[Kilted]

And much of that money raised by local parishes who might be made up of immigrants like Filipinos who weren't exactly involved...

To argue the other side here: it shouldn't matter. The Catholic Church is one international organization, it's not like it has an independent denomination in every country that has ultimate authority, they all answer to the Vatican.

 

[suffolkowner]

how about starting with property taxes?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Catholic Church raised nearly $300M for buildings since promising residential school survivors $25M in 2005​

CBC compiled Catholic projects announced since promising 'best efforts' to survivors, paying them under $4M​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sask...aising-residential-school-survivors-1.6090650

Sigh...maybe time to start taxing religious institutions.

CBC seems to be picking up the baton the Globe & Mail's first ran with in 2016.

... The Catholic Church is one international organization, it's not like it has an independent denomination in every country that has ultimate authority, they all answer to the Vatican.

Yeah, on that, Canadian Bishop Central says it's as decentralized as they want it to be ....

...The Catholic community in Canada has a decentralized structure. Each Diocesan Bishop is autonomous in his diocese and, although relating to the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops, is not accountable to it. Approximately 16 out of 70 Catholic dioceses in Canada were associated with the former Indian Residential Schools, in addition to about three dozen Catholic religious communities. Each diocese and religious community is corporately and legally responsible for its own actions. The Catholic Church as a whole in Canada was not associated with the Residential Schools, nor was the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops ...

Nothing from The Vatican on that - although Vatican Central did apologize to other groups elsewhere for stuff Catholic church organizations in other countries did to people.

 

[Kilted]

Yeah, on that, Canadian Bishop Central says it's as decentralized as they want it to be ....

And Commanding Officers from Alberta dictate Canadian Forces policy.

 

[quadrapiper]

I think that it's important to remember that a very large percentage of Canadian Christians are not Catholic and have no connection to the Catholic Church, in many cases many denominations left the Catholic Church because they felt that many things the Vatican was doing was wrong. Perhaps we will see a few converts from this. If you start taxing every church based on the actions of the Catholic Church, that's for one thing discrimination. Many smaller churches would be forced to close if they were taxed, because many are barely holding on. They don't have the riches of the Vatican.

So delete religion from the tax code entirely. If you do good works (for example, maintaining a historical local building and grounds) that qualify you for charitable status? Excellent! You're a charity! Otherwise, there's non-profit or for-profit options.

 

[daftandbarmy]

We knew about it all along, of course:

LILLEY: Unmarked graves were documented years ago but most of us looked away​

It was all there in the 2015 report from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission

It was all there, ready for anyone to read in the 2015 report from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. There is an entire 273-page volume devoted just to this issue titled, “Canada’s Residential Schools: Missing Children and Unmarked Burials.”

The language in the report is matter of fact, the content is heartbreaking.

A total of 3,201 children documented to have died, or thought to have died, at Canada’s residential schools. Thought to have died is included because records remain incomplete — some are thought to have died after running away, others were presumed dead when they did not return.

As for the cemeteries, they are there in the report.

These were not hidden cemeteries as some have wrongfully thought or implied, they were part of the whole horrid system. The schools had cemeteries because the government refused to pay to transport the bodies of students who died back to their parents.

LILLEY: Unmarked graves were documented years ago but most of us looked away

 

[Good2Golf]

Most indeed looked away, including the elected offspring of He Who Said He’d Keep Them In The Ghetto As Long As They Like.

 

[suffolkowner]

Well at least they've been trying! I wonder if the courts will revisit this

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/residential-school-financial-settlements-quebec-catholic-church-1.6092215

 

[OldSolduer]

A lawsuit has been filed. $300 million is the figure quoted.
What is more concerning to me is the tone that our government in Manitoba is using and the response from the FN.

 

[Loachman]

A week old, but I did not see them posted as I caught up in this thread:

Rex Murphy: What's not to understand (and abhor) about 'burn it all down'?

What responsible organization, what person leading a responsible organization, would think or utter such a thing?

nationalpost.com

While some cheer on the destruction of churches, First Nations pick up the pieces

After a failed arson attack on an on-reserve Anglican church, Gitwangak First Nation said the church had no connection to residential schools. Vandals returned to b…

nationalpost.com

Terry Glavin: Canada's early Christian prophets were Indigenous. Now someone's destroying their churches

As pyres have been made of sturdy little churches built by First Nations, the sneering of all those white 'allies' is the thing to notice

nationalpost.com

 

[Remius]

A week old, but I did not see them posted as I caught up in this thread:

Rex Murphy: What's not to understand (and abhor) about 'burn it all down'?

What responsible organization, what person leading a responsible organization, would think or utter such a thing?

nationalpost.com

While some cheer on the destruction of churches, First Nations pick up the pieces

After a failed arson attack on an on-reserve Anglican church, Gitwangak First Nation said the church had no connection to residential schools. Vandals returned to b…

nationalpost.com

Terry Glavin: Canada's early Christian prophets were Indigenous. Now someone's destroying their churches

As pyres have been made of sturdy little churches built by First Nations, the sneering of all those white 'allies' is the thing to notice

nationalpost.com

I suspect this will be the go to thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if “allies” are the ones doing it to. You know the type. Not native but activists that feel they can speak and protest for native communities. Likely from far away and likely the same types that protest at G7 and G20 summits or chain themselves to trees. But I am only surmising and throwing my thoughts out.

 

[Good2Golf]

I suspect this will be the go to thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if “allies” are the ones doing it to. You know the type. Not native but activists that feel they can speak and protest for native communities. Likely from far away and likely the same types that protest at G7 and G20 summits or chain themselves to trees. But I am only surmising and throwing my thoughts out.

Black Bloc?

 

[Remius]

Black Bloc?

Or the same type.

 

[Quirky]

News coverage over all of this has been reduced substantially even after more discoveries of objects under past schools.

 

[Remius]

News coverage over all of this has been reduced substantially even after more discoveries of objects under past schools.

Objects?

People are far more sympathetic to stories of children dying in government sanctioned religious organizations than they are to arson burning down churches.

 

[Loachman]

They should also be sympathetic to the indigenous people who rely on the churches that "do-gooders" have been burning down.

We'd be a bunch better off, as a society, if fewer people were offended on behalf of other people, whom they neither know nor know much about, who are not themselves offended.

 

[Remius]

They should also be sympathetic to the indigenous people who rely on the churches that "do-gooders" have been burning down.

We'd be a bunch better off, as a society, if fewer people were offended on behalf of other people, whom they neither know nor know much about, who are not themselves offended.

But that gets buried in the narrative unfortunately.