Fireman Carry replaced by Casualty Drag

[dapaterson]

My most vivid CQC memory is the hour long "warm up" before the 6-8 hours of high kicks and wrist locks.....

Admission:  At first I thought you were talking about the Chief Warrant Officer's Qualification Course (CQC), and not the Close Quarters Combat (Course (CQC).

Although, giving RSMs eight hours of instruction on high kicks and wrist locks might not be such a bad idea...

 

[SeanNewman]

Although, giving RSMs eight hours of instruction on high kicks and wrist locks might not be such a bad idea...

From the stories of MWOs (granted, not CWOs) I am surrounded by, I am under the understanding they received that training on their QL3 and ISCC through osmosis.

 

[SocialyDistorted]

Do they have them in blonde, chest size around 36B 36D?  ;D

Fixed that for ya mate

But wouldn't dragging the wounded person make them more vulnerable to killshots than the carry? Although I suppose it is much easier

 

[SevenSixTwo]

;D I wonder how many people are going to be pants'd when they get "casualty dragged".

Tighten those belts

 

[Haggis]

Did mine last week.  Kept my pants firmly in place with only a belt.  "Trouser drop" is not an issue if you maintained a waistline and hips. ;D

 

[SeanNewman]

I'm not worried so much about the pants falling off as I am the butts getting gouged/torn out of them.

The regs call for grass if you can, but I would make that day your faded field combats and not your new dark green ones to be safe (lesson learned from past impromptu combat PT sessions on the road involving drags).

 

[medicineman]

I thought that was why we were issued sewing kits, and barring that, why we had clothing stores on or near bases.  I'd much rather be worried about the ass on my combats getting a little wrecked that having to have medical support on site in case someone blew a disc or snapped a leg tripping with someone on their back.  I'd say the cost/benefit analysis comes out better - new pants vs training new soldier and paying off broken one(s).

:2c:

MM

 

[SeanNewman]

Have never once seen a fit soldier injured due to the BFT. 

I have seen plenty injured on para landings or people rolling their ankles walking around in the middle of the night, but never on the fireman carry.

No trying to be a party pooper, just saying that if people are getting injured carrying someone else, perhaps they aren't staying fit enough or they picked the wrong profession.

 

[PMedMoe]

I think I got hurt more being carried, than carrying.  But twisting one's ankle on a casualty carry does not make one unfit.

 

[SeanNewman]

But twisting one's ankle on a casualty carry does not make one unfit.

Fully agreed with you, but I've never seen it because it's on level ground (doesn't at all mean it doesn't happen).

But if we're dropping the fireman carry because of risk of injury, what's next?  Not walking in the field where there might be ruts?  Not walking around trees? 

Don't get me wrong, if you can increase workplace safety for nil investment then of course.  It would be crazy to hurt people when you don't have to, but I have literally seen hundreds more people injured playing sports than the fireman carry.

 

[medicineman]

Have never once seen a fit soldier injured due to the BFT. 

I have seen plenty injured on para landings or people rolling their ankles walking around in the middle of the night, but never on the fireman carry.

No trying to be a party pooper, just saying that if people are getting injured carrying someone else, perhaps they aren't staying fit enough or they picked the wrong profession.

Seen lots - and fit ones at that.  The reasons I see/saw them and you didn't: (1) they sure weren't going to tell you they hurt themselves, and (2) I have been doing this for 20 something years.  Seen very fit firefighters do the same thing - hence one of the reasons they drag people now too  . 


MM

 

[SeanNewman]

MM,

I 100% believe you and trust you, so worries and thank you.

 

[VIChris]

Done the drag three times now. Once on a concrete parade square, and twice on grass. The drag vs. lift really depends on the torso length ratio of you and your partner. It's tough if you're short to lift a taller guy high enough off the ground, and still be able to pull him along. For some it's one or the other, and when you MUST move, well the choice is made for you. My pants survived just fine, it was the tail of my combat shirt instead that was ruined when we went on concrete. My partner couldn't get me high enough off the ground and still lean into it enough to move rearward. This can be cheated a little though if the partner on th ground stiffens up a bit, and digs the heals down, like when you're on a waterslide. Though some consider this cheating a bit, as the partner hasn't gone completely limp, simulating an injured person.

Clothing considerations aside, I felt more in control of my partner doing the drag vs. the firemans carry. I've done many carries through various sports training sessions over the years, and while it's a good workout, I wouldn't want to try to maneuver through rough terrain doing that while juggling a hurt person and a heavy load of gear.

Just my newbie  :2c:

 

[mariomike]

My partner couldn't get me high enough off the ground and still lean into it enough to move rearward. This can be cheated a little though if the partner on th ground stiffens up a bit, and digs the heals down, like when you're on a waterslide. Though some consider this cheating a bit, as the partner hasn't gone completely limp, simulating an injured person.

You never know how a real casualty will react. Some are unconscious or semi-conscious. Some are alert and compliant. Others may be combative, perhaps because of a head injury. 

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Admission:  At first I thought you were talking about the Chief Warrant Officer's Qualification Course (CQC), and not the Close Quarters Combat (Course (CQC).

Although, giving RSMs eight hours of instruction on high kicks and wrist locks might not be such a bad idea...

This would actually be my dream course

Stymiest vs RSM  = Winner Stymiest via Heel Hook

Yank.... This is what I think of standards

Note=I am not being serious I do not want to injure my Sgt Major

 

[VIChris]

You never know how a real casualty will react. Some are unconscious or semi-conscious. Some are alert and compliant. Others may be combative, perhaps because of a head injury.

Very good point.

 

[carl_gustav317]

that is a good point. due to shock, the casualty could become quite combative. if completely unconscious, would be nothing than dead weight.

the way this test is supposed to be run, the "drag-ee" should simulate the unconscious casualty. admittedly, i have never been put in this scenario, but still fully support this change over the "fireman's carry" (that is not used by firemen, by the way).

 

[C.Balogh]

What is a good way to train for doing casualty drags? As a smaller person I tend to end up dragging people bigger than me and am considerably slower than my peers. What are some good exercises to do that would help me improve?

 

[ballz]

Your legs could do the drag forever, its generally the upper body that has a hard time holding on to someone who seems to get increasingly heavier each meter. I've seen people hugging and crossing arms and all kinds of stuff trying to hold onto someone.

The best method I'd found for this is something I learned in jiu jitsu for maintaining back control using leverage instead of strength. Reach under their armpits and grab the shoulder straps of their tac-vest as high as you can (up by their ears if you can reach). Do not cross your arms, your right hand grabs the right shoulder strap, left grabs the left. Now when you stand up, the back of their tac-vest will pull taught and you'll have a stable platform to hold onto. You'll be able to hold this and drag for quite a while without your upper body.

 

[C.Balogh]

Ok thanks, I'll try that next time!