Federal Government & Union spar over returning to office

[QV]

I agree that the unions are probably not going to win any friends over this issue.

But they don't really need to. I think the unions have calculated that all they need to do is get the federal NDP to back them (which is very likely to happen), and they can force the Liberal government to back down.

Of course, it might be short term gain for long term pain, because the current state of affairs won't last forever.

Public disdain for this drives voters to parties that promise to hack and slash the public service when elected. Not in the Union's interests long term.

 

[captloadie]

That is very true.

Only two members of my extended family are PS workers, me and my daughter-in-law. For me, WFH lasted only six weeks during the beginning of COVID. For her, she is still on three weekdays a week at the office and there is no consistency in which weekdays those three are due to her boss's schedule. That causes significant turmoil in scheduling childcare as her husband, my son, works full time at his workplace and did so all through COVID. She is still required to pay for full time daycare for my grandson, lest she lose her "guaranteed" space on the days she needs it.

That being said, the remainder of the family, almost all of whom work outside the home regularly, have little sympathy for her.

But here is where most people are going to be critical of public servants, and others who WFH. The children should be going to childcare regardless of whether the parents are working from home or the office. How does a parent look after one or more preschool children at home and still put in a full day of productive work.

 

[daftandbarmy]

But here is where most people are going to be critical of public servants, and others who WFH. The children should be going to childcare regardless of whether the parents are working from home or the office. How does a parent look after one or more preschool children at home and still put in a full day of productive work.

That's the problem.

There are (apparently) a significant number of people who don't, and it's kind of the big elephant in the room that everyone's afraid to point out...

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think the people that are covering 3-4 jobs and working themselves to death (sometimes literally) really don't care what the general public thinks anymore, as regardless of what they do there is always the asshole trotting out the lazy public service trope. If they can do that effectively without having to go into the office everyday who cares? I don't want sympathy, I want people to leave me alone to do my job, and manage my team however makes sense for them to do theirs.
Do you care about things getting done or attendance?

Hybrid or remote doesn't work for lots of public service jobs, which just is what it is, but for the ones who can do it why pull them back into the crab barrel? Reduces road congestion, helps support local businesses in the community vice downtown. 'I have to so you should too' is just a bunch of crap, especially when you compare a white collar analyst type job to a blue collar trade job and expect them to have the same working conditions.

This is turning into another 'if you don't like it, leave' scenario, and combined with funding cuts and more bureaucracy that stops you from getting things done a lot of people are like 'fuck it, okay'. Then cue surprised pikachus when the people with 30+ years of experience that are your go-tos for complex things pull the pin. We are losing a few more centuries of experience on docking work periods in the next month for the cumulative impact of all the nonsense.

The hilarious bit is some of them are going to defence contractors where their workload drops, the amount of internal BS for things like travel approval are gone, and their pay goes up and doing remote/hybrid work there quite effectively. Add on the markup rate and the CAF is now paying 1.5-2 times their previous salary for a portion of the work they used to do.

So far today I've worked with people in the UK, Halifax and Esquimalt, and now finally stopping for lunch at just before 3. But I guess it's super critical my ass is parked in a (soul crushing and noisy) cubicle in Gatineau with an hour long drive home in the future, or I would just be watching tv and sunbathing or something.

 

[QV]

There are really good reasons and many positions that can and should be remote. But not a blanket. For improved public support, optics are everything and just like any government policy this needs to be sold to the public.

 

[Navy_Pete]

There are really good reasons and many positions that can and should be remote. But not a blanket. For improved public support, optics are everything and just like any government policy this needs to be sold to the public.

But it never was a blanket, and most jobs never had a WFH or remote option. Even during the full lockdown there were plenty of essential government workers who went into work just with additional precautions.

The change is that now they want to have a blanket approach of rolling back all jobs to hybrid, even those that were remote prior to COVID, or people that were hired to work remotely during COVID when that was an option.

I suspect at least part of it is a lot of the senior people who have made their job their entire life are lonely in their corner offices.

Aside from the IT support expanding the number of external connections on VPN, there was never actually anything done to support or improve the remote/hybrid work, so we've basically been figuring it out ourselves, while being told it's all been awesome and everyone is doing great remotely.

Lot of talking out of both sides of their ass as well; in person collaboration is critical, but don't travel to the users that use the equipment for feedback (or see the kit IRL). We also want people to get together spontaneously to table top things, but the room booking process is through the IT portal and you need to submit a trouble ticket with 48 hours of notice beforehand. We also need to take reduced GHG emissions into account while buying equipment, but directly increasing GHG emissions in very real terms by having arbitrary RTO, regardless of what makes sense for the job. Very 1984.

 

[Haggis]

But here is where most people are going to be critical of public servants, and others who WFH. The children should be going to childcare regardless of whether the parents are working from home or the office. How does a parent look after one or more preschool children at home and still put in a full day of productive work.

I should've been clearer. They are in after-school programs.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

But it never was a blanket, and most jobs never had a WFH or remote option. Even during the full lockdown there were plenty of essential government workers who went into work just with additional precautions.

The change is that now they want to have a blanket approach of rolling back all jobs to hybrid, even those that were remote prior to COVID, or people that were hired to work remotely during COVID when that was an option.

I suspect at least part of it is a lot of the senior people who have made their job their entire life are lonely in their corner offices.

Aside from the IT support expanding the number of external connections on VPN, there was never actually anything done to support or improve the remote/hybrid work, so we've basically been figuring it out ourselves, while being told it's all been awesome and everyone is doing great remotely.

Lot of talking out of both sides of their ass as well; in person collaboration is critical, but don't travel to the users that use the equipment for feedback (or see the kit IRL). We also want people to get together spontaneously to table top things, but the room booking process is through the IT portal and you need to submit a trouble ticket with 48 hours of notice beforehand. We also need to take reduced GHG emissions into account while buying equipment, but directly increasing GHG emissions in very real terms by having arbitrary RTO, regardless of what makes sense for the job. Very 1984.

Fun and games when the entire program team shows up to a office space that has been "Right sized" to 2/3rd of the personal, with minimal hotel stations, no boardrooms and no offices for the managers.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Fun and games when the entire program team shows up to a office space that has been "Right sized" to 2/3rd of the personal, with minimal hotel stations, no boardrooms and no offices for the managers.

 

[CountDC]

Wouldn't it be amazing if leaders were allowed to lead and determine if they needed their staff in house or could WFH? Work wise I could easily go with a split schedule but for appearances we do a full in office schedule with WFH days scattered when it makes sense (ie have an appointment that takes all morning, travel time to work after would result in 2 hours in office but if WFH get in 5 hours).

I remember a sect in NDHQ where the schedule was "must be 8 hours onsite, hour for lunch and everyone must include Wed Afternoon in schedule as we will have meetings then. Let us know your schedule" Everyone had a different schedule with starts anywhere from 0600h to 1300h that fit their life and work needs. It was great, everyone got along and worked well together. Never did win the lottery though.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Wouldn't it be amazing if leaders were allowed to lead and determine if they needed their staff in house or could WFH? Work wise I could easily go with a split schedule but for appearances we do a full in office schedule with WFH days scattered when it makes sense (ie have an appointment that takes all morning, travel time to work after would result in 2 hours in office but if WFH get in 5 hours).

I remember a sect in NDHQ where the schedule was "must be 8 hours onsite, hour for lunch and everyone must include Wed Afternoon in schedule as we will have meetings then. Let us know your schedule" Everyone had a different schedule with starts anywhere from 0600h to 1300h that fit their life and work needs. It was great, everyone got along and worked well together. Never did win the lottery though.

My group had a similar setup. As I came into my office early and my asst left late, we had coverage for the phone from 7-5. Our clients who often left early for the field loved it as they could call us either in the morning or late afternoon and get a real person.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Public disdain for this drives voters to parties that promise to hack and slash the public service when elected. Not in the Union's interests long term.

Liberals have the gun owners as their vote pinta, CPC has the Public Service workers as theirs. Sadly my venn diagram encompasses both groups.

 

[Kirkhill]

As one of many that were caught up in the "cost saving" exercise whereby all federal new hires in Ottawa had to live in Ottawa I think McParland's solution is admirable.

Kelly McParland: Let federal bureaucrats work from home — anywhere in the country​

Ottawa is the centre of Bureaucrat World, but it doesn't have to be. The same work can be done in Truro, Lethbridge, Moose Jaw or Chilliwack

Author of the article:
Kelly McParland
Published May 30, 2024 • Last updated 15 hours ago • 5 minute read

Past governments have made efforts to decentralize services, moving offices to St. John’s or Winnipeg, with limited success. A 1994 government study assessing 30 years of reorganization efforts concluded that “the reformed management practices and structures repeatedly advocated had not materialized in any meaningful way.” Another three decades later, its ranks have been increased, decreased and increased again, yet Ottawa today remains overwhelmingly the centre of Bureaucrat World and its ever-disgruntled populace.

So change it. Anything that can be done from home in Kanata or Nepean can be done from Truro, Lethbridge, Moose Jaw or Chilliwack. No need for tiring commutes, unreliable transit, echoing streets or other such horrors. Simply decree that any new hire that can be done from home has to be done somewhere other than Ottawa.

Municipal authorities would undoubtedly protest, but so what? It’s not like they’re famed for their dynamism and skill. Who needed a national emergency to get rid of a bunch of horn-honking truckers? Get the bureaucrats out of Ottawa and the city might be forced to drum up other ways to support itself, possibly even involving private enterprise, entrepreneurial skill and something other than a steady supply of reliable government largesse.

All that’s required is the will. It’s not entirely clear what Pierre Poilievre means when he says he’ll get rid of the gatekeepers, but redistributing public employees across the country and away from a comfy, complacent world that empties at 4 p.m. and needs a “Nightlife Economy Action Plan” and a $112,000-per-year “night mayor” to run it can’t be a bad start.

Best of all, no one outside Ottawa would complain in the slightest.

Next thing you know Cold Lake spouses could be working for the CRA and drawing EX salaries.

 

[Rudburg]

Somewhat related to this topic: DND moving 1,000 employees out of Ottawa office building due to safety concerns

The video mentions that the "safety concerns" are related to assaults on employees.

 

[Furniture]

Somewhat related to this topic: DND moving 1,000 employees out of Ottawa office building due to safety concerns

The video mentions that the "safety concerns" are related to assaults on employees.

Yes, and moving them into a "hoteling" arrangement in 101... So everybody back for three days a week, but also, we don't have enough desks for all of you to be in the office at the same time.

 

[Remius]

Yes, and moving them into a "hoteling" arrangement in 101... So everybody back for three days a week, but also, we don't have enough desks for all of you to be in the office at the same time.

Lots of space in 101 these days lol.

 

[McG]

Yes, and moving them into a "hoteling" arrangement in 101... So everybody back for three days a week, but also, we don't have enough desks for all of you to be in the office at the same time.

Invite people to work on Sunday

 

[Remius]

Invite people to work on Sunday

Or overnight

 

[Furniture]

Lots of space in 101 these days lol.

There is space, but that space is also not ready for anyone to move into.

The building was supposed to get a major refit before COVID hit, and as far as I am aware much of that work is just now trickling through.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Invite people to work on Sunday

Flex time is useful but probably doesn't fit inside a bureaucratic mind. It would help the users of government services if customer-facing offices kept longer hours by staggering work shifts more than they already do (if at all).