Federal Government & Union spar over returning to office

[AKa]

The problem I have found with the public service is that you are not allowed to manage civilian pers according to their capabilities. Some people are perfectly productive working at home. Others produce little to nothing. But if those two employees are at the same level doing the same job, you can't allow the productive person to work at home and deny the other. It isn't "fair". And the lazy workers are always masters at sliding around any measures you are allowed to implement to get them to produce and they always happen to be in tight with the union. So as a military member who has supervised civilians, I completely understand why the government wouldn't want to enshrine WFH into the agreement. I do like to have the option of allowing it when it works for both the individual and the organization.

And don't get me started at seniority being the deciding factor on who gets cut when the budget taps out...

 

[Navy_Pete]

Ironically, managers had full authority to manage WFH prior to xmas when TBS came down with their mandatory 2 days a week in office, regardless of whether it makes sense or not. It's no longer 'manager discretion' it's dictat from the big giant heads who have no idea what they are talking about or have any actual responsibility to get things done.

 

[Remius]

I know why the decision was made but some risk management could have been done.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Ironically, managers had full authority to manage WFH prior to xmas when TBS came down with their mandatory 2 days a week in office, regardless of whether it makes sense or not. It's no longer 'manager discretion' it's dictat from the big giant heads who have no idea what they are talking about or have any actual responsibility to get things done.

Im really not sure why WFH is an issue. It should be embraced where ever possible.

 

[dapaterson]

For work that can be done remotely, there's an incredible opportunity to improve the federal public service by getting the best people in the country, and not the best you could find in Ottawa.

Getting that greater diversity of experience will be transformational to the PS and likely improve outcomes.

It will also permit the government to reduce its office footprint, saving millions on accomodation costs.

The city of Ottawa, which will eventually lose thousands of good paying federal jobs, might feel otherwise...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

For work that can be done remotely, there's an incredible opportunity to improve the federal public service by getting the best people in the country, and not the best you could find in Ottawa.

Getting that greater diversity of experience will be transformational to the PS and likely improve outcomes.

It will also permit the government to reduce its office footprint, saving millions on accomodation costs.

The city of Ottawa, which will eventually lose thousands of good paying federal jobs, might feel otherwise...

I am all for WFH- where it makes sense. It just doesn’t make any sense for many operational groups. So, for PSAC to want enshrined as a right in the collective agreement is just crazy talk.

 

[Remius]

I am all for WFH- where it makes sense. It just doesn’t make any sense for many operational groups. So, for PSAC to want enshrined as a right in the collective agreement is just crazy talk.

But I do see their point. Many other things are in the collective agreement that is subject to manager’s discretion. I fail to see how this is a problem or different. Despite my issues with the union, when the Government’s position on wages is that they are only going off the PIC recommendation for that but not taking their recommendation for WFH it looks,like cherry picking.

 

[Navy_Pete]

But I do see their point. Many other things are in the collective agreement that is subject to manager’s discretion. I fail to see how this is a problem or different. Despite my issues with the union, when the Government’s position on wages is that they are only going off the PIC recommendation for that but not taking their recommendation for WFH it looks,like cherry picking.

I guess for context things like compressed work, flexible work arrangements etc are already part of the normal managerial discretion, and I believe part of the bargaining agreement.

Giving managers actual discretion for WFH AND remote work just makes sense, but TBS has imposed some additional restrictions. Sure doesn't make sense in some cases, but particularly in the context of the GoC massively shrinking our office footprint to the point where we won't be able to actually even accomodate RTO under their guidelines and have meaningful in person collaboration just makes it particularly hypocritical.

Really no point in us RTO in partial squads and the rest calling in for 'in person meetings' because they cut us down to 30% of the desks. Someone 'returning to the office' but not actually in the same building only makes sense for something like improved connectivity (ie not having to use a VPN to get to DRMIS through another VPN), but is totally useless for collaboration.

 

[Navy_Pete]

For work that can be done remotely, there's an incredible opportunity to improve the federal public service by getting the best people in the country, and not the best you could find in Ottawa.

Getting that greater diversity of experience will be transformational to the PS and likely improve outcomes.

It will also permit the government to reduce its office footprint, saving millions on accomodation costs.

The city of Ottawa, which will eventually lose thousands of good paying federal jobs, might feel otherwise...

For about a month we had floated an opening with the opportunity to potentially working from either coast as an LCMM. We went from zero applications to 15 just by word of mouth, and then the TBS direction on remote workers needing to pay for the portion of travel to the work location killed it.

It's so dumb; there are a lot of people with a lot of relevant experience that just won't move to Ottawa, and we end up instead contracting the job to pay a 3rd party 150% of the SWE to get the same people to cover the majority of that job while doing it remotely. Except now there is all the contract management and contractor limitations to deal with.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Keep in mind that "work from home" is just a particular case of "remote work".

 

[Remius]

For about a month we had floated an opening with the opportunity to potentially working from either coast as an LCMM. We went from zero applications to 15 just by word of mouth, and then the TBS direction on remote workers needing to pay for the portion of travel to the work location killed it.

It's so dumb; there are a lot of people with a lot of relevant experience that just won't move to Ottawa, and we end up instead contracting the job to pay a 3rd party 150% of the SWE to get the same people to cover the majority of that job while doing it remotely. Except now there is all the contract management and contractor limitations to deal with.

I was running a large process hoping to attract talent from all over the country. It was in my plan. Then this shot it all down. Very annoying. I had people out west, east coast and northern Ontario.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Keep in mind that "work from home" is just a particular case of "remote work".

It would be, except if you work outside the area, TBS decided that the employee is responsible for travel to the location of employment as part of any overall travel.

For example, if the job is in the NCR, and the employee is in Halifax, with a trip to Esquimalt, they are supposed to fly themselves to Ottawa and then catch the flight to Esquimalt. Conversely, there is no credit for going to something in Halifax where we would have traveled.

International travel? Same deal. Get yourself to Ottawa then go from there on the government dime.

It's poundfoolish penny pinching nonsense that I can't believe the unions aren't fighting, but basically means that we will likely need to change the work location of any remote worker for it to be feasible.

Leaving the job empty has huge direct/indirect costs and real operational/safety implicaitons, contracting the work out has similar costs, so lets nickle and dime someone that actually wants to do the job when we can otherwise accomodate remote work.

 

[Pelorus]

Seems to me they could have fairly simply brought in a rule where the employee is responsible to get themselves to one of a list of approved departure points, i.e., any decent sized city with a airport that offers reasonably-priced flights. Offers people the flexibility to live across Canada, but prevents having to pay inordinate travel prices for someone who wants to live in the backwoods of northern BC with satellite internet or something.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Seems to me they could have fairly simply brought in a rule where the employee is responsible to get themselves to one of a list of approved departure points, i.e., any decent sized city with a airport that offers reasonably-priced flights. Offers people the flexibility to live across Canada, but prevents having to pay inordinate travel prices for someone who wants to live in the backwoods of northern BC with satellite internet or something.

Good point... wouldn't want too many qualified PhDs from backwater dives like Smithers, BC eh?

Smithers Offers the Best of Both Worlds​

Economic diversity thrives in picturesque town nestled at the base of Hudson Bay Mountain​

Too often in the business world, growth is fast and dramatic — which more often than not leads to equally dramatic downturns. That’s why a host of different types of companies gladly call Smithers their home: located between Prince George and Prince Rupert, the town of some 5,300 people and the surrounding Bulkley Valley is a place of deliberately slow and steady expansion.

It’s the ideal climate for long-term business prospects as well as the sustainability of the alpine way of life for which Smithers is famous — as can attest the many entrepreneurs who have established successful companies in town, such as Bandstra Transportation, Hy-Tech Diamond Drilling, and Central Mountain Air.

Smithers also possesses the elements one would normally not expect from a rural community. For example, it has the second-highest number of PhDs per capita of any community in B.C. (Victoria has the most). Thanks to a proliferation of special retail boutiques fronting the red-brick sidewalks of Main Street (which the town requires to be maintained in the alpine design style), it is a bona-fide shopping destination in northwest B.C. And of course, it retains its traditional economic base of forestry and mining.

Of all the industries that are driving Smithers’ prosperity, tourism comes first. “It contributes the most to the province’s GDP,” says Heather Gallagher, manager of the Smithers Chamber of Commerce.

To which Gladys Atrill, executive director of Tourism Smithers, adds: “We’ve really got the best of both worlds. We have a thriving downtown thanks to our economic diversity, which guests from all over enjoy, in addition to our regional ski hills, biking, hunting, and fishing.” On that note, it’s worth pointing out that Smithers has some of the best angling (especially for steelhead) in the province.

If being situated at the base of Hudson Bay Mountain and glacier has helped make Smithers a tourism destination (as has a regional airport with daily flights to Vancouver), its location on Highway 16 also allows local firms to service northern B.C’s quickly expanding mining and mineral exploration sector.

If that’s not enough, the competitive business rates and stunning scenery have attracted the bright lights of Hollywood: the Liam Neeson action film The Grey was shot in and around the town.

Gallagher expects young professionals, families, and retirees alike to continue to make Smithers their home well into the future, given its growth potential: at the airport alone are 340 hectares of undeveloped land, much of which is ideal for shipping, logistics, and service companies.

But for all of the town’s popularity, both the Chamber of Commerce and Tourism Smithers are primarily devoted to maintaining gradual growth. “We want people to come here, but just the right number,” says Gallagher.

Atrill adds: “We’re a success because of our unique attributes, so it’s in our best interest to preserve them.”

Smithers Offers the Best of Both Worlds - BC Business

Economic diversity thrives in picturesque town nestled at the base of Hudson Bay Mountain

www.bcbusiness.ca

 

[dapaterson]

I am all for WFH- where it makes sense. It just doesn’t make any sense for many operational groups. So, for PSAC to want enshrined as a right in the collective agreement is just crazy talk.

Ironically, it's probably PIPSC and ACFO who will benefit more than PSAC from such an approach - but the aren't striking (and are cheering for PSAC to get a better deal that they will then be able to leverage for themselves).

 

[AKa]

Ironically, managers had full authority to manage WFH prior to xmas when TBS came down with their mandatory 2 days a week in office, regardless of whether it makes sense or not. It's no longer 'manager discretion' it's dictat from the big giant heads who have no idea what they are talking about or have any actual responsibility to get things done.

Actually, we weren't allowed to permit it when I was a manager in ADM(Mat). Our director didn't like it so we weren't supposed to do it. (Doesn't mean it never happened.) Sometimes it's just common sense.

 

[Remius]

Actually, we weren't allowed to permit it when I was a manager in ADM(Mat). Our director didn't like it so we weren't supposed to do it. (Doesn't mean it never happened.) Sometimes it's just common sense.

Did your director have his own office that he could close his door and and make private calls? I find the ones resistant to wfh are the ones that have the best amenities at work to do their jobs.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Good point... wouldn't want too many qualified PhDs from backwater dives like Smithers, BC eh?

Smithers Offers the Best of Both Worlds​

Economic diversity thrives in picturesque town nestled at the base of Hudson Bay Mountain​

Too often in the business world, growth is fast and dramatic — which more often than not leads to equally dramatic downturns. That’s why a host of different types of companies gladly call Smithers their home: located between Prince George and Prince Rupert, the town of some 5,300 people and the surrounding Bulkley Valley is a place of deliberately slow and steady expansion.

It’s the ideal climate for long-term business prospects as well as the sustainability of the alpine way of life for which Smithers is famous — as can attest the many entrepreneurs who have established successful companies in town, such as Bandstra Transportation, Hy-Tech Diamond Drilling, and Central Mountain Air.

Smithers also possesses the elements one would normally not expect from a rural community. For example, it has the second-highest number of PhDs per capita of any community in B.C. (Victoria has the most). Thanks to a proliferation of special retail boutiques fronting the red-brick sidewalks of Main Street (which the town requires to be maintained in the alpine design style), it is a bona-fide shopping destination in northwest B.C. And of course, it retains its traditional economic base of forestry and mining.

Of all the industries that are driving Smithers’ prosperity, tourism comes first. “It contributes the most to the province’s GDP,” says Heather Gallagher, manager of the Smithers Chamber of Commerce.

To which Gladys Atrill, executive director of Tourism Smithers, adds: “We’ve really got the best of both worlds. We have a thriving downtown thanks to our economic diversity, which guests from all over enjoy, in addition to our regional ski hills, biking, hunting, and fishing.” On that note, it’s worth pointing out that Smithers has some of the best angling (especially for steelhead) in the province.

If being situated at the base of Hudson Bay Mountain and glacier has helped make Smithers a tourism destination (as has a regional airport with daily flights to Vancouver), its location on Highway 16 also allows local firms to service northern B.C’s quickly expanding mining and mineral exploration sector.

If that’s not enough, the competitive business rates and stunning scenery have attracted the bright lights of Hollywood: the Liam Neeson action film The Grey was shot in and around the town.

Gallagher expects young professionals, families, and retirees alike to continue to make Smithers their home well into the future, given its growth potential: at the airport alone are 340 hectares of undeveloped land, much of which is ideal for shipping, logistics, and service companies.

But for all of the town’s popularity, both the Chamber of Commerce and Tourism Smithers are primarily devoted to maintaining gradual growth. “We want people to come here, but just the right number,” says Gallagher.

Atrill adds: “We’re a success because of our unique attributes, so it’s in our best interest to preserve them.”

Smithers Offers the Best of Both Worlds - BC Business

Economic diversity thrives in picturesque town nestled at the base of Hudson Bay Mountain

www.bcbusiness.ca

If I was a young man right now, I be looking hard at Smithers, very nice little town.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If I was a young man right now, I be looking hard at Smithers, very nice little town.

Shhhhhh.....

 

[dapaterson]

If I was a young man right now, I be looking hard at Smithers, very nice little town.

From what has been suggested, Smithers likes hard young men.