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ARMY_101 said:
Did you even read the article??
Fantino in/out of VAC: changes in DM/other staff (merged)
- Thread starter The Bread Guy
- Start date
Did you even read the article??
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The point is, he's the Minister of Veterans Affairs. Under VAC the only 2 groups qualify: Members of the Canadian Armed Forces (and it's previous iterations under British rule etc.) past and present, and the RCMP. The only reason RCM Police are the only police included is that way back in the day, the RCMP as a unit of Dragoons had engaged in various battles of combat in wars both here in Canada and abroad which brought them Battle Honours. So for Mr. Fantino to spout his "veteran" crap referencing his disgraced time as a police officer and police chief for orgs that are NOT the RCMP, don't really give him any right or reason to say what he has.
Now, if he worded his speech a little differently and said something like "I may have only been a police officer, but I understand some of the occupational stresses and traumas that we share..." then there would have been no harm done.
Either way... IMHO: A person who has never served as a military member should not hold the position of Minister of Veterans Affairs. Ever.
Now, if he worded his speech a little differently and said something like "I may have only been a police officer, but I understand some of the occupational stresses and traumas that we share..." then there would have been no harm done.
Either way... IMHO: A person who has never served as a military member should not hold the position of Minister of Veterans Affairs. Ever.
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Or even the title?recceguy said:
How many doctors/nurses have been health minister? I'm OK with someone who can understand the issues and have a spine to do what's right when required (knowing it's always within the limits of party discipline and policy), than a vet who may not be all that swift.PrairieThunder said:
milnews.ca said:
Agreed. Having served in uniform does not necessarily mean one is better qualified to oversee a government department. And it certainly doesn't preclude one from print a partisan hack in cabinet. I'll take an honest broker who trusts their staff.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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ARMY_101 said:
:
Your credibility is really lacking now.
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ARMY_101 said:
...except for sailors who may, for instance, have been part off a CIMIC/OMLT or aircrew (not just pilots) shot down in combat (such as the crew of CH147202 in AFG).
Perhaps best to stop while behind, vice letting yourself prove you are even further behind than it may initially appear to many? Please?
G2G
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PrairieThunder said:
Ministers aren't meant to be subject-matter experts like the bureaucracy, they're meant to be policy and political experts who can navigate the politics required to effect changes in their department. VAC/DND ministers don't need to be veterans, Health Minister doesn't need to be a doctor, Fisheries and Oceans and Environment Ministers don't need to be biologists, etc. It's not their role (nor should it be, if they're elected as representatives of the Commons).
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ARMY_101 said:
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MilPoints inbound :nod:Scott said:
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Pusser
Army.ca Veteran
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Future Pensioner said:
I have some issues with the HP article. Although I agree that we all write a "blank cheque" to the nation, we cannot be "ordered to die." I see that phrase used frequently and it just plain wrong. Yes, we can be ordered into harm's way and yes, the consequences of that order may in fact lead to our deaths and anyone contemplating a military career needs to understand and accept that. However, every order is made with a goal in mind and that goal is never the death, no matter how inevitable, of the person or persons carrying it out. The HP example of a leader ordering someone to throw themselves on a greande is too ridiculously Hollywood to be taken seriously.
Teager
Sr. Member
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This from the VAC Minister
"As I explained to 25 Veterans stakeholders a few weeks ago, the plaintiffs in the current court proceedings argue that the promises of past governments are binding on present and future governments. While this may sound reasonable, their argument could have a far broader impact than perhaps intended. If accepted, this principle could undermine democratic accountability, as parliamentarians of the future could be prevented from changing important legislation. Hence this is not about the issues raised by the plaintiffs, but about unintended consequences to the very functioning of our parliamentary democracy. The place to discuss whether laws meet the needs of Veterans is before a Parliamentary committee whose sole purpose is to hear and represent their interests. That is why I support a comprehensive review of the Enhanced New Veterans Charter, as per the recommendation of the Veterans Ombudsman and various stakeholder groups.
I believe Veterans are remarkable individuals who have made important contributions to Canada. They have stood up in the face of tyranny, and stood firm in the defence of Canada. My reference to my four decades as a law enforcement officer was simply to note that I am no stranger to placing my life on the line. I understand the concerns of the Veterans community, and our Government will continue to do what is right by them."
More at link http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/the-honourable-julian-fantino/veterans-affairs-canada_b_4213257.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-politics
"As I explained to 25 Veterans stakeholders a few weeks ago, the plaintiffs in the current court proceedings argue that the promises of past governments are binding on present and future governments. While this may sound reasonable, their argument could have a far broader impact than perhaps intended. If accepted, this principle could undermine democratic accountability, as parliamentarians of the future could be prevented from changing important legislation. Hence this is not about the issues raised by the plaintiffs, but about unintended consequences to the very functioning of our parliamentary democracy. The place to discuss whether laws meet the needs of Veterans is before a Parliamentary committee whose sole purpose is to hear and represent their interests. That is why I support a comprehensive review of the Enhanced New Veterans Charter, as per the recommendation of the Veterans Ombudsman and various stakeholder groups.
I believe Veterans are remarkable individuals who have made important contributions to Canada. They have stood up in the face of tyranny, and stood firm in the defence of Canada. My reference to my four decades as a law enforcement officer was simply to note that I am no stranger to placing my life on the line. I understand the concerns of the Veterans community, and our Government will continue to do what is right by them."
More at link http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/the-honourable-julian-fantino/veterans-affairs-canada_b_4213257.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-politics
- Reaction score
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The sole purpose of a Parliamentary Committee is to represent the interests of stakeholders? I suppose that depends on the committee, and what it's allowed to do - highlights mine from what the Parliamentary web page says about committees:Teager said:
J
jollyjacktar
Guest
Telling cartoon...
http://thechronicleherald.ca/editorial-cartoon/2013-11-11-editorial-cartoon
http://thechronicleherald.ca/editorial-cartoon/2013-11-11-editorial-cartoon
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-in-ottawa-to-fight-service-cuts-upset-over-fantino-meeting-1.2513837
Waiting them to death is the new policy.
Veterans in Ottawa to fight service cuts upset over Fantino meeting
Veterans who were in Ottawa to lobby against the closing of their regional offices left a brief, emotional meeting Tuesday with Veterans Affairs Minister Julian Fantino visibly frustrated and saying they were disrespected.
The federal government has already closed one office in Prince George, B.C., and plans to close eight more on Jan. 31.
In a news conference, a group of veterans said their Tuesday meeting did not go well. Video from the meeting shows Fantino and veterans trading testy exchanges.
Ron Clarke, a 36-year veteran of the Forces, said the meeting was "unbelievable, unacceptable and shameful. The way we were treated is just not kosher." He demanded that Fantino resign and said he would campaign "across Canada" against the Conservatives during the next election.
Roy Lamore, a Second World War veteran from Thunder Bay, Ont., called it a "damn disgrace" that Fantino sent three Conservative MPs — Parm Gill, Erin O’Toole, and Laurie Hawn — to argue for the closures.
"There are a few things [Fantino] should be told," Lamore said. "Taught manners is number 1, number 2 to respect the veterans, and number 3, it's time that he better wake up and give us a break on these things."
Fantino released a statement saying that he and the veterans had a 'candid conversation' during a 'roundtable' and that meeting with veterans is one of the most important parts of his job.
"I am always willing to hear from veterans face-to-face on any issue," the release said.
Evan Solomon, host of CBC's Power & Politics, said the confrontation will be a public relations problem for a Conservative government that has built its brand on veterans and the military.
"That press conference could be the beginning of a much more significant debate about how vets have been treated," he said.
Volunteer warns of delays
Alban LeClair said during an earlier new conference Tuesday that he works with veterans in Prince Edward Island as a Royal Canadian Legion service volunteer.
Veteran John Tescione with PTSD fights for retroactive benefits
"I can't help veterans without assistance of Veterans Affairs," he said.
Veterans protest service office closures
Veterans and PSAC members make their way to hold a news conference on Parliament Hill Tuesday, where they called on the government to reconsider its decision to close Veterans Affairs district offices in nine communities. (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press)
"This government keeps saying it's enhancing services for veterans. It says these closures will not affect services. Well, I can tell you now, that before they started shutting down Charlottetown district office, a veteran could get a home visit within a couple of days. Now it takes up to six weeks to contact the veteran. And six weeks is a long time for a 93-year-old veteran, and even young veterans suffering with PTSD," he said, referring to post-traumatic stress disorder.
One veteran teared up as he described what friends were going through as they faced the office closures.
Offices are set to close in:
Corner Brook, N.L.
Charlottetown.
Sydney, N.S.
Thunder Bay, Ont.
Windsor, Ont.
Brandon, Man.
Saskatoon.
Kelowna, B.C.
Meeting with Fantino
Fantino addressed the proposed closures last fall in front of the House veterans affairs committee.
"Veterans Affairs offices in nine locations across Canada have seen demand drop, and so yes, they are being closed," he said.
"Some of these offices have seen demand drop to fewer than seven visits on average per day, with many of these visits for dropping off paperwork. But where veterans need them most, our government has maintained 26 Veterans Affairs Canada service centres, and has established and supports 24 integrated personnel support centres and 17 operational stress injury clinics.
"But this is again only part of the story. Now, in locations where Veterans Affairs has never operated before, veterans and their families can visit one of 600 Service Canada sites to get the information they need."
A spokesman for Fantino said Veterans Affairs is placing staff at the Service Canada Centre closest to offices that are closing. Service Canada Centres are government offices that offer a number of programs in one location.
"This position will be there for as long as necessary in order to support veterans in the communities where they live," Fantino said in a Dec. 13 statement.
The Public Service Alliance of Canada organized Tuesday's press conference.
'Even slower'
The government said services will still be available online.
But the website isn't easy to navigate, said Bruce Moncur, a 29-year-old who served in Afghanistan.
Moncur said he banks and does other transactions online, but it took him a whole afternoon to figure out the Veterans Affairs site.
Moncur described starting an account on the site, then waiting a day for it to be activated, and waiting another week to get the paperwork he requested.
"Something that I could have gone to the office for, that would have taken 10 minutes to get, ended up taking me a week. And that's indicative too of what's happening with these closures is that the service is going to [be] even slower. I never thought it would be possible, but it is," he said.
For those who still want to meet with a case worker, the closures could mean travelling for hours to get to the nearest office.
In question period, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said service will actually increase because it will be available at 600 Service Canada centres.
New Democrat Leader Tom Mulcair suggested that isn't how the veterans see it.
"No, [the veterans are] not all here in Ottawa this week to say thanks," Mulcair responded.
"When our forces are facing a crisis of eight military suicides in two months, there's never been a more important time ... to maintain those services," Mulcair said.
Michelle Bradley, who has worked for Veterans Affairs since 2001, said the government has forgotten the sacrifices veterans have made for Canada.
Bradley is also the national vice-president of the Union of Veterans Affairs Employees for the Atlantic region.
"We've been forced to put aside our caring as we watch all of our veterans wait longer to get the support they need and they deserve," she said.
Waiting them to death is the new policy.
Veterans in Ottawa to fight service cuts upset over Fantino meeting
Veterans who were in Ottawa to lobby against the closing of their regional offices left a brief, emotional meeting Tuesday with Veterans Affairs Minister Julian Fantino visibly frustrated and saying they were disrespected.
The federal government has already closed one office in Prince George, B.C., and plans to close eight more on Jan. 31.
In a news conference, a group of veterans said their Tuesday meeting did not go well. Video from the meeting shows Fantino and veterans trading testy exchanges.
Ron Clarke, a 36-year veteran of the Forces, said the meeting was "unbelievable, unacceptable and shameful. The way we were treated is just not kosher." He demanded that Fantino resign and said he would campaign "across Canada" against the Conservatives during the next election.
Roy Lamore, a Second World War veteran from Thunder Bay, Ont., called it a "damn disgrace" that Fantino sent three Conservative MPs — Parm Gill, Erin O’Toole, and Laurie Hawn — to argue for the closures.
"There are a few things [Fantino] should be told," Lamore said. "Taught manners is number 1, number 2 to respect the veterans, and number 3, it's time that he better wake up and give us a break on these things."
Fantino released a statement saying that he and the veterans had a 'candid conversation' during a 'roundtable' and that meeting with veterans is one of the most important parts of his job.
"I am always willing to hear from veterans face-to-face on any issue," the release said.
Evan Solomon, host of CBC's Power & Politics, said the confrontation will be a public relations problem for a Conservative government that has built its brand on veterans and the military.
"That press conference could be the beginning of a much more significant debate about how vets have been treated," he said.
Volunteer warns of delays
Alban LeClair said during an earlier new conference Tuesday that he works with veterans in Prince Edward Island as a Royal Canadian Legion service volunteer.
Veteran John Tescione with PTSD fights for retroactive benefits
"I can't help veterans without assistance of Veterans Affairs," he said.
Veterans protest service office closures
Veterans and PSAC members make their way to hold a news conference on Parliament Hill Tuesday, where they called on the government to reconsider its decision to close Veterans Affairs district offices in nine communities. (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press)
"This government keeps saying it's enhancing services for veterans. It says these closures will not affect services. Well, I can tell you now, that before they started shutting down Charlottetown district office, a veteran could get a home visit within a couple of days. Now it takes up to six weeks to contact the veteran. And six weeks is a long time for a 93-year-old veteran, and even young veterans suffering with PTSD," he said, referring to post-traumatic stress disorder.
One veteran teared up as he described what friends were going through as they faced the office closures.
Offices are set to close in:
Corner Brook, N.L.
Charlottetown.
Sydney, N.S.
Thunder Bay, Ont.
Windsor, Ont.
Brandon, Man.
Saskatoon.
Kelowna, B.C.
Meeting with Fantino
Fantino addressed the proposed closures last fall in front of the House veterans affairs committee.
"Veterans Affairs offices in nine locations across Canada have seen demand drop, and so yes, they are being closed," he said.
"Some of these offices have seen demand drop to fewer than seven visits on average per day, with many of these visits for dropping off paperwork. But where veterans need them most, our government has maintained 26 Veterans Affairs Canada service centres, and has established and supports 24 integrated personnel support centres and 17 operational stress injury clinics.
"But this is again only part of the story. Now, in locations where Veterans Affairs has never operated before, veterans and their families can visit one of 600 Service Canada sites to get the information they need."
A spokesman for Fantino said Veterans Affairs is placing staff at the Service Canada Centre closest to offices that are closing. Service Canada Centres are government offices that offer a number of programs in one location.
"This position will be there for as long as necessary in order to support veterans in the communities where they live," Fantino said in a Dec. 13 statement.
The Public Service Alliance of Canada organized Tuesday's press conference.
'Even slower'
The government said services will still be available online.
But the website isn't easy to navigate, said Bruce Moncur, a 29-year-old who served in Afghanistan.
Moncur said he banks and does other transactions online, but it took him a whole afternoon to figure out the Veterans Affairs site.
Moncur described starting an account on the site, then waiting a day for it to be activated, and waiting another week to get the paperwork he requested.
"Something that I could have gone to the office for, that would have taken 10 minutes to get, ended up taking me a week. And that's indicative too of what's happening with these closures is that the service is going to [be] even slower. I never thought it would be possible, but it is," he said.
For those who still want to meet with a case worker, the closures could mean travelling for hours to get to the nearest office.
In question period, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said service will actually increase because it will be available at 600 Service Canada centres.
New Democrat Leader Tom Mulcair suggested that isn't how the veterans see it.
"No, [the veterans are] not all here in Ottawa this week to say thanks," Mulcair responded.
"When our forces are facing a crisis of eight military suicides in two months, there's never been a more important time ... to maintain those services," Mulcair said.
Michelle Bradley, who has worked for Veterans Affairs since 2001, said the government has forgotten the sacrifices veterans have made for Canada.
Bradley is also the national vice-president of the Union of Veterans Affairs Employees for the Atlantic region.
"We've been forced to put aside our caring as we watch all of our veterans wait longer to get the support they need and they deserve," she said.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
It appears that Mr. Fantino has managed to enrage a significant number of well respected Veterans in front of national TV. It does not bode well for proper and respectful assistance to many of our most deserving members of our Nation.
My trust for a Mr. Fantino led Dept. of Veteran's Affairs is at an all time low.
My trust for a Mr. Fantino led Dept. of Veteran's Affairs is at an all time low.
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